Talk:Fainting goat

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 27 November 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rd989. Peer reviewers: Rp8848, Pmbanks.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

duplicate video clip
is anyone aware that the video links in this article are virtually identical? one of them just has a longer intro than the other. i think the shorter one should just be deleted. but perhaps someone else has something to say about this.

I just typed up a paper on the myotonic goat and added the last paragraph of my paper here. I hope it helps. If anybody is more eloquent than I, feel free to change it. Just make sure you do not change any of the info I added.

Also someone shoudl redirect "myotonic goat" to this page since I have no clue how to do it.

Thanks a lot, -Ryan


 * I've added the redirect, thanks for pointing that out. &mdash;Chowbok 15:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

- I added some information specific to the breed as a livestock animal including some uses for this wonderfull breed of goat. I also added a link to the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy since they list various breeds that are threatened and the Fainting goat is listed as such.

- Thank you Phidauex for adding the reference. I added a photo as well. --Redleg 14:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice photo! Cute goats. I'd love to get a few myself... Phidauex 15:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

That looks much better like that, I am glad you are looking over it :). I just started, I should probably look at the formatting of other documents and see what is standard before I jump in and make too much of a mess. --Redleg 16:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Urban legend?
Is this article true? Because the article seems to be based on the video, and it could easily be a joke.

Nope, it is absulutely true. Follow the links to faintinggoat.com and the the ALBC at http://www.albc-usa.org/. I raise these goats and they are really funny. As they age, they tend to faint less, but the younger ones do often. I like them because they are gentle and the demand for chevon is growing rapidly. If you look at the breeders section of faintinggoat.com, you can contact a breeder close to you and visit them in person - goat people in general love to show off their goats :) Redleg 02:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm watching it on Mythbusters right now: confirmed. --Monado (talk) 03:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Flatulence when fainting?
I removed this sentence that was the second one in the article: "This causes the goat to emit a miasma that is smelly in nature." I couldn't verify that they emit gas when fainting, and miasma isn't the correct word. Spalding 13:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As a breeder of these goats, I have never witnessed one emit gas when fainting. This is just anecdotal, but that claim does not seem likely to me to be true.

Actually, a few of mine do toot when 'locking up'. I agree with removing the sentence as the gas is no smellier than normal goat flatulence. (sf) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk • contribs) 12:34, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

fat_people.jpg
I saw that there were incorrectly written HTML tags for a picture at the beginning of this article so I edited the page and fixed the code and then decided to see what the picture was supposed to be. Needless to say it was some stupid vandalism and I removed it.

Myotonic vs. Fainting?
Should this page be titled Myotonic goat, with a redirect from Fainting goat, instead? Even though "fainting goat" is what they are generally called, the breed name is Myotonic. Traviswertz 09:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The association that maintains the breed standard is named "International Fainting Goat Association", so I'm pretty sure that the title is correct. Merenta 18:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

There are several registries that use the word 'Fainting'. One major registry uses 'Myotonic'. I think one way to resolve the confusion between the different breeds and uses is to link the various registries and dedicate a paragraph to each of the different 'fainting' breeds. (Give me a little time.) SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk) 13:39, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the History...
In my research on the Myotonic goat, I happened to fall upon a site containing information regarding the history of the breed that seems to differ from the claims of Wikipedia's article. While I know that both pieces can be seen as legends and and are nearly impossible to positively corroborate, this article by the International Fainting Goat Association seems to elaborate a little more on the story of the Fainting Goat Man (he's referred to as "Tinsley" in the link) from Nova Scotia.

Both accounts take place in Marshall County, so I figure they may be identical to one another, though the site I read seems to suggest a different buyer of the goats and quite a date separate from the one mentioned in this article. Here's the link: "Tennessee Fainting Goats"

Animal Protection aspect
Am I the only one who thinks that purposefully selecting animals for a genetic defect is ethically wrong? --84.74.135.110 19:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. Someone should add a statement to that effect to the article. --130.92.9.55 14:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

This addition can be added, but the myotonia is not simply amusing or a novelty. Since they are a meat animal, the trait increases their muscling, which causes more meat per carcass to be produced. This trait also aids in containing them as they are unable to challenge fences as roughly as Boers (the other meat breed I am familiar with, I would assume other breeds challenge fences just as vigorously as Boers). If you find references to question the ethics of raising this unique American breed, be sure to include the flip side arguments as well.

We average between 50 and 100 registered (Myotonic Goat Registry) goats in our herd. In some parts of the country, commercial meat ranchers run hundreds over massive acreage - they wouldn't be doing that if these animals were significantly handicapped. Contrary to popular myth, these are not fragile animals - they go feral quite successfully. 'Locking up' is not painful, I've seen animals continue to eat and cud. Many adults learn to pogo when they run, only the rear legs locked. I can't catch the little darlings when they do that, not much slower that a 'normal' goat. (sf) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk • contribs) 12:42, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Color Genetics
A fainting goat breeder in Virginia, Dr Phil Sponenberg (a specialist in color genetics), has written several articles, one of which is at http://www.goatspots.com/genetics.htm. It is an article about general goat color genetics, not just fainting goats. Goatfarm (talk) 02:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Pop Culture Reference
Fainting goats are referenced in a song by MC Frontalot. On the album Final Boss, the song "Scare Goat" and the "AM Radio Skit" which introduces it both reference fainting goats. Not sure if or how to fit this into the main article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.2.1.153 (talk) 12:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Other reasons for keeping fainting goats
An episode of "MythBusters" suggested, quite plausibly, that fainting goats were bred to help protecting flocks of sheep. The idea was that if a predator attacked the flock, a single fainting goat in amongst them would 'faint' and become an easy target for the predator, giving the sheep a chance to run away.

Might be worth adding to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.42.50 (talk) 09:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't seem very plausible. As well as the fact that multiple goats usually faint at a time when scared, and such a disadvantaged trait would face pretty strong natural selection weeding it out, all this does is ensure the predator a catch (or possibly several). With non-fainting goats, the same thing happens anyway, the only difference being the sacrificial goat is caught while running instead of because it fainted.

Mythbusters has a written article about Fainting Goats, which might do for the needed citation, but how do I add citations? http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/db/animals/fainting-goat.html I don't think the fainting goats have any actual use, they've just bred a population because they think it's funny. In the wild the phenotype would disappear almost completely (the genotype would survive, like in humans, regardless). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.152.231.88 (talk) 19:10, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I would only include the story that they were bred to protect sheep in order to debunk it. No one is going to keep and breed a pure bred animal just for grins, giggles and wolf-bait. They are a quad purpose animal - meat, fiber (some lines have decent cashmere), milk (prior to refrigeration, many folks didn't need gallons a day) and draft. They are also proven to be the most parasite resistant, best meat/bone ratio and efficient food converting goat breed tested to date. (I'll be submitting sources later.) It's not just the myotonia, they are an amazingly mild mannered goat and easy for children and 'grannies' to handle. (SF) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk • contribs) 12:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Is it a breed?
All this is hard to believe... but if it's only a gene, it does not define a breed. I own goats and some of them are more easily frightened than others, and others do claim and whine and protest more than others, etc, and I have noticed that those whose mother is always whinning are always whinning also with almost the same voice, but different from their cousins... If "fainting goats" do exist then they could be part of any goat breed if the gene goes around? in that case it's not a special kind of goats. Patris22 (talk) 22:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Currently pursuing permission from Myotonic Goat Registry to share and update information. This is a breed with breed characteristic standards, special judges (we don't judge ability to faint, but breed characteristic, functional anatomy and suitability as a commercial meat animal) and registered pedigrees that go back at least 16 generations. There is also a registry for 'Mini-silky' (currently in F6+ generation I think) that was custom bred small, slim pet animals from various genetics including goats registered with MGR and Nigerian Dwarfs. There is some anecdotal evidence that either Nigi's carry the Myo gene naturally or were cross-bred decades ago as 'fainting' Nigi's occasionally occur in registered pure bred herds. (I use 'pure bred' in the original meaning - pure of breed. Versus the popular goat term for 100%, 'Pureblood')

Yep, this page needs tweaking. SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk) 13:47, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Serious redo needed.
This article is a start, but very much behind the science, research results and commercial use of some of the genetics. It does not list the registries for the various breeds of pure bred goats that 'faint'. I will be submitting input for evaluation. Those wishing to verify my suitability for this task are encouraged to review 'The Nervous Homesteader' FB education group. It is open to read, only members may comment. This is NOT to promote the page, merely to provide those who are curious a chance to review my contributions to livestock education and experience with these animals. Please forgive me if I make procedural faux pas, I'm new to the WP community. SF the Nervous Homesteader (talk) 13:34, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

In progress Bibliography For Page Updates
1) Martin, A. F., Bryant, S. H., & Mandel, F. (1984). Isomyosin distribution in skeletal muscles of normal and myotonic goats. Muscle & Nerve, 7(2), 152-160. doi:10.1002/mus.880070212

2) Lipicky, R. J., & Bryant, S. H. (1972). Temperature effects on cable parameters and K efflux in normal and myotonic goats. American Journal of Physiology, 222(1), 213-215. doi:10.220.33.1

3) Hegyeli, A., & Szent-Gyorgyi, A. (1961). Water and Myotonia in Goats. Science, 133(3457), 1011-1011. doi:10.1126/science.133.3457.1011

4) Bryant, S. H. (1979). Myotonia In The Goat. University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, 314-325

5) Monteagudo, L. V., Tejedor, M. T., Ramos, J. J., Lacasta, D., & Ferrer, L. M. (2015). Ovine congenital myotonia associated with a mutation in the muscle chloride channel gene. The Veterinary Journal, 204(1), 128-129. doi:10.1016/j.tvjl.2015.01.014

Abm213 (talk) 19:14, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Meat production section
The sentence on "Annual kidding rates, weaning rates, doe retention rates, and kid crop weaned" in this section contradicts the abstract of the article (doi:10.2527/jas.2016.1283): "relatively the same in all goats except the Myotonic" contradicts the abstract's assertion that "Myotonic does were intermediate" (behind the other two, but ahead of Boer, which is last). I think Myotonics having the lowest FEC warrants similar emphasis as the authors gave it in their abstract. Since the whole section refers to one source exclusively, it should suffice to refer to it once rather than in every sentence. --87.78.208.151 (talk) 20:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)