Talk:False confession/Archive 1

John Mark Karr Speculations
John Mark Karr's confession has not been confirmed to be false. I do not think it is wise to have speculation. 09:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It isn't written as a fact, and the speculation is well documented in the New York Times and Reuters as per the 4 references on his page. It doesn't have to be a certainty to have an entry in Wikipedia, it just has to be referenced in mainstream media. Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 16:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, but unless it is almost certain to take place, I think speculation on John Mark Karr should be limited to his article. (I am unsure who removed the John Mark Karr entry, but I wanted to discuss it before removal.)  20:21, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Innocence Project
One version of this page had a section devoted to the "Innocence Project," which is an organization dedicated to clearing the falsely convicted. The section seems irrelevant in a discussion about false confessions (rather than those who are wrongly incarcerated) and because it contained no actual information appeared to be an advertisement for the program. Jboyler 00:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

JonBenet Ramsey
Does anyone know how many people have confessed to her murder? I know it's quite a few other then Jon Mark Karr. ShadowWriter 21:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

List of "false confessions" is biased and unsubstantiated
This article currently has a long list of short little supposed examples of false confessions. Some of them clearly state that the confession was determined false in court, but some just leave the story with the confession and imply that it's false (Jessie Misskelley, Stephen Downing, Jeffrey Mark Deskovic). Most lack cites although some link to separate wikipedia articles. The "Michael Crowe" section is pretty clearly heavily biased, including the telltale sentence, "These are the facts." Several of them are rather short on details.

In order for this article to be factual and unbiased, I think that only cases in which the confession was decided in court to be false should be listed in this article. Otherwise, it just looks like a place for armchair law opinions and old grudges to be aired.

--anonymous random Wikipedia reader, 12/20/2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.217.245 (talk) 04:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

False accusations
We could do with a sister article False accusations --Penbat (talk) 22:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Iran section
The Iran section is disproportionally large, and a clear violation of WP:Undue which has been introduced here in a soap-boxing fashion. Iran is just another country, yet somehow the Iran section here is 10 times bigger than the USSR section and even bigger than the US section. It should be trimmed down to minimum essentials. Kurdo777 (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This is ridiculous, Half of the page is about Iran, which is a clear violation of the UNDUE policy. I am trimming down the section. --Wayiran (talk) 00:15, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Adding to the Tapping interrogations and confessions section
Hi Everyone,

I am planning on adding to the Taping Interrogations and confessions section as an assignment for a class that has joined the APS-Wikipedia Initiative. I want to discuss psychological research as it concerns how camera perspective alters verdicts in videotaped interrogations and confessions. G. Daniel Lassiter has done some very extensive work in this area. While researching I have read about the tendency of the legal community to not welcome psychological research findings. Why is this the case? What do you all think of my projected exploration? Thanks! KatieRamseur (talk) 20:27, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review for Taping interrogations and confessions
Intro

This sentence does not seem factual, “It appears that it will be only a matter of time before it becomes the norm for introducing confession evidence at trial.” I think we do links only the first time the word appears.

Camera perspective bias

“The assumption stands that videotaped confessions allow for a more complete and objective record of the police-suspect interaction. It serves as a visual representation that can clearly be interpreted by fact finders (the judge and the jurors) during the trial proceedings.” what does “it” refer to? Take the author out here to make the content less about Lassiter and more about his findings. Also, words like “seems to” and “clearly” seem opinionated. The content is great, just work on Wikipedia style. For example, you could make this sentence more concise, “This study clearly provides evidence that the manner in which videotaping is implemented holds the potential for bias and that this bias can be avoided by using an equal-focus perspective,” by just saying, “…potential for bias, which can be ….”

Illusory causation

Good job connecting illusory causation back to camera perspective bias. It adds nice continuity to your additions. Great content in the paragraph about the experiment with two-person conversations, but I’m getting caught in the wordiness - maybe make the language simpler here. Also, I was confused in the paragraph about attributional complexity, maybe because I do not know what that is. Phrases like “it is also worthwhile to note” and “surprisingly” seem less factual than Wikipedia requires. Phrases like “in following with the logic” seem wordy.

Reducing the bias

Phrases like “in this same light” seem wordy. This sentence about judicial instruction was confusing to me, “However, judicial instruction emphasizing the need to be cognizant of reliability and fairness concerns in evaluating the confession and, in some cases, directly alerting mock jurors to the potentially prejudicial effect of camera perspective did not mitigate the bias.” The expertise section could be stated in fewer words. I see what you were trying to do here though - setting up a case that judges should not have this bias because they’re experts, but the findings show they do. This sentence about accountability was confusing to me, “The failed attempt to mitigate camera perspective bias was found via manipulation of the amount of accountability participants felt by telling them that they would have to justify their judgments of voluntariness to a trial judge.”

Ecological validity

I am not sure if Bornstein’s name or the journal name needs to be stated? I know we do not use names for authors of experiments, but I am not sure about authors of theories and arguments. Great job with presenting different viewpoints and how Lassiter tried to fix his limitations. Take out his name there, though, I think.

You have a great section going there with the Racial salience bias - maybe give experimental details about that empirical data that is cited with reference 39.

Olivia Morrison (talk) 16:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)Olivia MorrisonOlivia Morrison (talk) 16:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Introduction: I feel that this section was written in a very concise manner and I really like this style. I agree with Olivia that the sentence she points out does not seem factual. I believe that it is more the way you phrased it. Remember, this is not a paper.

Great job on camera perspective bias as well as illusory causation. My main issues with your articles is your style of writing in later sections. Don't use the author's names in the articles, provide factual evidence, CITE the facts you give (there were some places that other editors pointed out that had facts that needed to be cited) and write in a concise manner. This is all about facts. Sometimes you insert a little bit of opinion or colloquialisms that don't follow this style of writing. Provide more empirical support for your sections. Otherwise, this is a very interesting topic and you bring much interesting research to the table. Just work on the style of writing more than anything else. Nathalya Cubas (talk) 13:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Jessie Misskelley and The West Memphis Three
Please consider editing for clarity regarding the supposed "exoneration". It is true that no DNA recovered from the crimescene matched the three convicted of these crimes. However, since this was not the average rape/murder case where identified semen was present in an amount to fully type, lack of a match to the convicted is not as convincing of an "exoneration" as it would be in the average rape/murder case. All hairs believed to be from the convicted at the time of the trials have been ruled out as belonging to the convicted, but the microscopic hair analysis was not admitted into evidence in the Echols/Baldwin trial. The defense has filed their Second Amended Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus on October 29, 2007. A letter order was issued indicating the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas's intention to hold the Second Amended Petition in abeyance until several issues were resolved in state court on November 21, 2007. Sourcing for this information comes from wm3.org and Dennis Riordan's press conferences, the video and text are available at wm3.org. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.227.137.69 (talk) 06:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * agreed. The west Memphis 3 have not been exonerated. They were given a new trial because the DNA found wasn't theirs. The DNA how ever wasn't used to convict them and they did take a plea bargain at the new trial. Specifically the Alford plea. The Alford is a guilty plea specifically. Which means they accept the guilty plea but vocally assert their innocence. As a matter of record and the stance of the court they killed those boys. They have not been exonerated. 198.45.184.25 (talk) 09:53, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I found a great report that explains how forced confessions in Japan occur in a balanced out manner.
I won't confirm everything advocates have been shoving out to the media(advocates have exaggerated in the past for political gain), but I was able to find balanced out report on forced confessions in Japan occur: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graylandertagger (talk • contribs) 23:49, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Restoring Islamic Republic of Iran section
here. Televisied confessions were a major political tool in the IRI and it deserves a big section. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on False confession
Cyberbot II has detected links on False confession which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:


 * http://news.change.org/stories/false-confessions-and-iran
 * Triggered by  on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 17:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on False confession
Cyberbot II has detected links on False confession which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:


 * http://news.change.org/stories/false-confessions-and-iran
 * Triggered by  on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 00:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Duplicate bot notice has been reported to the bot operator. Etamni &#124; &#9993; &#124; ✓ 07:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Internalized false confessions
I think these can also happen in the context of relationships in which, if you're dealing with a person who's extremely sensitive, insecure, and prone to exaggeration and emotional reasoning, you can end up believing that you've done something really bad to them, since why else would they be reacting so strongly and treating you the way they are? This is especially true if they've convinced the whole social circle, who would normally be your anchor to reality, that their version of what happened is true. AkoPinoyGentleman (talk) 21:05, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on False confession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070124022211/http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2000/2000scc38/2000scc38.html to http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2000/2000scc38/2000scc38.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120607020132/http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php to http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:31, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on False confession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051208041806/http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000002.html to http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000002.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061230013932/http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/reports/crowe/index.html to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/reports/crowe/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:07, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on False confession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080205065425/http://www.justicedenied.org/issue/issue_27/miranda's_failure.html to http://www.justicedenied.org/issue/issue_27/miranda's_failure.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:25, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on False confession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170116160858/http://interviews.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/25872/press-release_bahrain-executes-three-men to http://interviews.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/25872/press-release_bahrain-executes-three-men

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:12, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Science magazine
Here's a good article in Science magazine about false confessions. It's based on a profile of Kassin, but updates the research in Kassin's articles cited in this entry. It also quotes some of the pro-prosecution objections to Kassin's work, and resolves their objections. Finally, it summarizes the work of other researchers.

The Science article also describes the Burton case, which isn't included here, and explains why it's important: It was the first case in which the defendant was exonerated based on the scientific examination of interrogation.

The Science article gives several cases, but they don't just list cases indiscriminately. Each case illustrates and supports a particular point that the article is making (like the Burton case). Since there are so many false confession cases, I think we should winnow them down the same way. Read each case, and ask yourself, "What does this case illustrate about false confessions?"

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/ psychologist-explains-why-people-confess-crimes-they-didn-t-commit This psychologist explains why people confess to crimes they didn’t commit By Douglas Starr Science Jun. 13, 2019 Doi:10.1126/science.aay3537

--Nbauman (talk) 15:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
The opening paragraph contains the sentence that: "False confessions can be induced through coercion or by the mental disorder or incompetency of the accused." However it does not specify that false confessions can occur during standard interrogations without clear instances coercion and with people who would be deemed of sound mind by any court. I believe that should be made clear as well. There is still a dangerous perception that false confessions can only occur as a result of clear coercion or violence if the person is of sound mind. 37.46.24.1 (talk) 14:25, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. CriminologyStudent (talk) 07:16, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Suggest removal of all examples of false confessions by different countries
I think we should remove all examples of false confession by country for the following reasons:

Comments from other editors welcome. CriminologyStudent (talk) 07:27, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Many false convictions are never discovered - so the list will always be inaccurate and incomplete. Different countries have very different cultures and judicial systems.
 * 2)  The ones that are currently on the list are therefore totally random. They add little to explaining the concept of false confessions, other than to indicate that they happen.
 * 3) The section on Incidence needs expanding. The Incidence of false confession will vary from one country to another depending on the culture, political, legal and judicial system. The section on Incidence could include studies on the prevalence of false confessions in different countries. That way we don't need a random list of cases.
 * 4) The three types of false confession need examples to expand and illustrate each case. These examples could be taken from the random cases now listed by country.

Videotaping of interrogations
For an article on false confessions, the section on videotaping is way too long. It leads to WP:Due and undue weight issues. I intend to shorten it. There are other ways to reduce false confessions - such as better police training, and changing police culture - which are not even mentioned. CriminologyStudent (talk) 03:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)