Talk:Family Force 5/Archive 1

Year started?
This article says 1995 is the year they started. But their MySpace says they started two years ago. Which is it? RoryS89 04:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)RoryS89
 * I'm thinking they would know more about their own band. That is my take. -- Will Mak  050389  04:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * According to, the three brothers released a CD in 1995, but I do not believe they had the other members of the group. The Olds brothers may have been making music since 1995, but not Family Force 5. -- Will Mak  050389  03:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

im guessing it was 2 years ago... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.64.127.45 (talk • contribs). Family force 5 started 2 years ago but the brothers started in 95 They are all Christians

family force 5 yes 2 years ago but they started w/ the brothers in 1995 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.203.177.29 (talk • contribs). they r christans

Yep, the dude (or maybe dudette) above me is right. The Brothers were in 1995, and released two CDs (Fact and Reality in 1995, and R.P.M. in 1996). Or atleast, it's two years that they've been signed. There might've been some time when they were the Phamily that their MySpace doesn't talk about. Plus, you also have to include the time when they were Ground Noise. Unfortunately, they haven't given a time frame for when Ground Noise was around. All I know is that it was after The Brothers, and before The Phamily and FF5. - User:SuperDMChan

Ground Noise was by no means "Family Force 5." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.73.55.45 (talk) 06:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Christan?
Is Family Force 5 a christan Rock band or just a band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 01:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

09.04.07 - They're a Christian rock band. - user:SuperDMChan
 * They are Christians in a band. Whether they are playing to Christians or secular crowds doesn't really matter as seen by some of their tours such as the Warped Tour amoung otheres Ldstryfe  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ldstryfe (talk • contribs) 15:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

no they r not christan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 20:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

09.10.07 - Then can you explain the meaning behind "Replace Me", "Love Addict" and "Supersonic"? Can you explain why they thank God and Jesus first in their lyrics book? And can you explain your overuse of exclamation points? Also, Ldstryfe, thank you for adding that. I was trying to figure as to how exactly it was they explained it, but I forgot. I'm a terrible FF5 fan. XD - user:SuperDMChan


 * Wait, someone just said they aren't Christian. Sons of Jerome Olds not Christian? Please. IronCrow 05:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

how is super sonic a christan song? drama queen put ur hands down??? people always thang God in there books —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

09.18.07 - I never said Drama Queen or Put Ur Hands Down. Quite obviously, those are not Christian songs. The line in Supersonic that makes the song Christian is the following: "Just lift Him up / cause you can't get enough". :) I also forgot to add that JesusFreakHideout covers them quite often, and they also play at quite a few churches, and talk about God on stage. Meanwhile, you've yet to explain the meaning behind "Love Addict", "Replace Me" and your overuse of exclamation points. So obviously, you're realising that maybe they are Christian, am I right? - user:SuperDMChan

Dude, 2 before me, umm u really need 2 stop sayin that they are not Christans. Cuz, they are. So go 2 YouTube and watch some on-stage videos and go 2 JesusFreakHide.com look em, up. It say's on this wikipedia that they are Christans. So belive it- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 23:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

First of all, it's hilarious that the same person who said they're not is now telling themself they are. "Christian" bands do not always have to sing about God or even Christian things/themes; I am a Christian, I'm not always, like, saying "Praise the Lord!" And just because their father is Jerome Olds doesn't mean they have to believe the same thing their dad does. But they are Christian men. Love Addict is about God's love, Replace Me is a "desperate" call for God to change you, and Supersonic is about actually living your life. Peachy...well, it says stuff about it in the article. They've said I Love You To Death is about loving God, but a lot of the lyrics don't make sense in that context, whereas they do in the love of a husband and wife (namely Soul Glow Activatur and his wife Lalipop). If I have to explain Face Down or Never Let Me Go, you have issues, because those are two of the most blantantly "Christian" songs ever released by a mainstream label (run by Madonna, gosh). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.73.55.45 (talk) 01:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Uh... Jerome Olds... If you knew the guy, you would definitly know these guys are DEFINITY Christian people. He is very close to his kids, as anyone who's ever heard his interviews, etc would know. Supersonic is about living your life, yes, but for God. And please sign your comments, otherwise, people will either A: Completely disregard your statement or B. Not really care. Now, as for them being the most Christian thing in a secular label... I highly doubt that. Hellig Usvart, the album by Horde, with song titles such as "Blasphemous Abomination of the Satanic Pentagram" and "Weak, Feeble, and Dying Anti-Christ" I would doubt what you said was true. IronCrow 05:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * My dad and I are close; he's agnostic, I'm not. It was more of a general thing. I didn't say they were THE most Christian thing, I said they were "ONE OF" the most Christian things. How is that not true? (A lot of other people have unsigned comments, thanks for getting on my case just because you didn't catch my drift. Now I signed it. Disregard THIS.) 68.73.197.71 05:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to wrap it all up FF5 IS CHRISTAN so guys SHUT UP!! ABOUT THIS GOSH!! Just ask around 2 peeps- Bubba65  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 20:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

11.03.07 - But...but...I thought you said they werent! For the love of God, make up your mind. Do you think they are or not? - user:SuperDMChan —Preceding comment was added at 17:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC) yes they r Christans i have always said they were i never said they were not71.203.177.29 18:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Bubba65

11.04.07 - Then how do you explain the fourth comment, and how your IP address is seemingly the same? o_o - user:SuperDMChan 13:41 4 November 2007

i dont know who that guy is!-bubba65 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.177.29 (talk) 02:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

They ARE Christian, but are not Christian Rock. The difference is that one is their faith and the other reflects their music. However, many faith groups support them seeing as their songs often seem to be inspired by Jesus. You guys seemed to be a bit confused about the difference.Clairify--65.40.179.113 (talk) 23:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello, i do believe that Family Force Five is Christian. i didn't have the time to read all the comments above this one and i am not going to. if they choose to perform in front of a secular crowed, that is their choice and there probably a reason behind it. second of all don't always believe everything that you read. some of it may be true and some of it may not. personally i have had a lot of experiences with lies and back stabbing. so what get over it. just because ff5 doesn't always talk about God and being a Christian doesn't mean they are not. I PERSONALLY DONT ALWAYS TALK ABOUT GOD EVEN THOUGH I THINK I SHOULD IMPLY AND DISCUSS ABOUT IT IN MOST CONVERSATIONS, BUT I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE AND I DONT CARE IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME, GET OVER IT. AND IF YOU'RE A PARENT THAT DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THE CHRISTIAN ROCK BANDS THAT CALL THEMSELFS CHRISTIAN ARE NOT, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THEY ARE. NEWS FLASH, YOUR NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. YOUR HUMAN, DEAL WITH IT.--TRUEwannabeEMO

They are Christian for sure I have there song "Love you to death" and in it the say "I'm not afraid of tthe JESUS that has made me" so to me THAT SAYS ALOT! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.69.213 (talk) 17:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

They say "I'm not afraid of the chances that I take," not "I'm not afraid of the Jesus that made me." duhhhh look up the freakin lyricsPhamilyLove (talk) 07:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Somebody's cranky. What does it matter what the lyrics say their Christian! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.70.65 (talk) 04:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I totally did not say the "duhhhh look up the freakin lyrics" part. You can check the history. PhamilyLove (talk) 21:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

This has gotten off topic, we're are not talking about their religion, we are talking about the band's music genre! Yes, they are Christian! No, to an extent they are not Christian rock! Their music reflects that, we get it! 4.178.192.208 (talk) 04:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

We've already finished this dicussion. Now it's just getting redundant. Besides, the question was about genre, because "Christian" is a genre for some reason. So it was on topic. PhamilyLove (talk) 06:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I suggest getting an account to help improve articles on Wikipedia. Yes, "Christian" is a genre, it has been for ages. Just as much as Emo is. Family Force 5 is on Gotee Records, an exclusively Chrsitian label (Switchfoot was a Christian band at the time of their record deal with them). Yeah, their father doesn't mean anything when it comes to their religion... I guess. Also, read their interviews. Don't forget, They have also played a concert on the Gospel Music Channel, and I doubt non-Christian groups are even allowed to set food in their studios. They also have played at EXCLUSIVELY Christian events/festivals. Creation Festival for instance. They also play at churches every now and then, look at their tour dates. They are a Christian band. I find it silly that people will believe that just beacuse a group is popular, they couldn't be a Christian band. Relient K would be an example. Underoath another. mewithoutYou has also been gaining in popularity, and people have began to doubt that are a Christian band because of that when they ahve made it clear that they are. IronCrow (talk) 05:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Listen. I love FF5 and Switchfoot. Both are Christian. Not blatantly, yes, but still Christian. I rest my case.-- B a r k j o n 02:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Look. They're Christian people. Their genre is mainstream rock, but since they ARE Christians, they obviously like to include Christian songs on their albums (Love Addict, SuperSonic, Replace Me), and aren't afraid to show their faith. Christianity. Not to mention they tour with Toby Mac and Relient K, VERY Christian Bands, every year for tobyMac's Winter Wonder Slam. And also to add to that, it doesn't matter how close they are to their father. Being Christian has nothing to do with your parents, or any relatives for that matter, being saved. It's not your parents get saved and then pass that down to them, THEY jhave to make the PERSONAL decision. Alexroxygirl (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

They are all Christians. Just cuz they play reg music every now and again does not mean that they are not. Alexroxygirl is right, it does not come in the family they made their own desicion. And they are definatly NOT afraid to show their faith

They are Christian Rock. Just because they have song that dont have direct Christian lyrics does not mean in anyway they arent Christian Rock or a Christian Band. When I Went to one of their shows they prayed on stage and said how they want to make music for God. I especially liked it when SoulGlow said before playing their first song "YEAH! I wannna see y'all Shaking your Booty for JESUS!!" =D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.248.50.118 (talk) 22:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Picture
The picture is obviously just advertising for this guy's radio station and should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.236.79.1 (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree.

yeah its just advertising —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.236.90.156 (talk) 21:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone have a free picture? 76.226.6.180 00:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

11.03.07 - I added one. ^^ Unfortunately, I don't know how to change the name. If anyone else does, do feel free to change it to something more appropriate. - user:SuperDMChan 13:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

What happened to it? It's not even in the history! 76.226.76.140 04:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not advertising. Family Force 5 and Revolution Radio are affiliated and FF5 does promotions and stars on the radio. -- Giggles  Talk  02:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

When I looked at the page earlier this month, it said pretty much nothing. It looks like it was edited the day you (re)added the picture to say that FF5 was involved with the radio station. It IS advertising, but it's okay, because they are promoting. Maybe you should put Family Force 5's involvement with Revolution Radio in the article and add a picture that includes all of the guys from the band. 76.226.35.0 (talk) 08:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Other "members"
Should Xanadu, Qwygon, Tofu Pup and Tub-O really be listed under "current members"? And if they are, they should be listed the same as the guys who play instruments in the BAND. PhamilyLove (talk) 05:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

no66.177.28.10 (talk) 21:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)bubba65

They should probably be listed as lesser members. :) - user:SuperDMChan 13:39 24 November 2007 —Preceding comment was added at 19:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong link for picture
The main picture links to the old picture when clicked on. 71.11.215.216 (talk) 02:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That is weird. I put notice up on WP:Village Pump (technical) - hopefully someone will look into it. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 03:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Appears to be fixed now. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 16:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Removing Sourced Information
Please use a (that is  ) template before removing sourced information, if you feel the source is unreliable, then ask for verification, then if none is provided in due time THEN remove the information. --Axcess (talk) 23:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Genre Debate Archive
I've archived this ridiculous excuse for a genre debate here. To continue the argument, please post in the archive. IronCrow (talk) 00:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Archiving didn't work. I did something wrong,r egardless, the discussion is still there, just continue here.

[Genre Debate Archive]

I am not drawing conclusions. The band stated that the do not mind to be labeled as such, look at the source. It says it in those very similiar words. Look at the source. No conclusions, read the source. READ IT. It's on it. Don't assume that I'm drawing conclusions from the source, it's there, on it. Read the thing, they said in those words, that they do not mind being labeled as a Christian band or not. Quit saying i'm drawing conclusions AND READ THE SOURCE. Do I have to repeat myself again? IronCrow (talk) 23:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

So let me get this straight, if I tell someone I don't mind if someone says I am the color purple or not purple, that means I am saying I am in fact purple? If that is the logic, how come that statement can't mean I'm not purple because I said if they do or do not call me purple. The band saying they don't mind if ppl label them Christian only means they don't mind if ppl say they are a Christian Band. If they truly were they would respond similar to this "They can call us a Christian Band, We are a Christian Band, not that they don't care. Them saying that in no form or fashion has them saying they are Christian Rock. I have yet to find the term 'Christian Rock' in any of the sources you presented. There is where you are drawing conclusion. You are also assuming that by the band saying they don't care "IF" someone calls them that means they consider themselves to be, the same statement could be used to support they are not, as I noted above. The sources you use are primary, they are biased, and don't back up your claim. If you want other editors to leave you alone about this cite it with a proper source. Why have you not done that, can you not find one? 78.129.175.207 (talk) 00:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

You are missing the logic. A previous consesus was made, you are to TALK ABOUT IT before making edits. No one did. Sure they posted a comment, but what happened to the comment? It got replies but that person edited anyways. How are they NOT a Christian band? They go to Christian-ONLY venues and played on a Gospel music channel. If some of the venues that they have played at feature ONLY Christian bands, then what does that tell you? The sources I used was what the band considered themselves. I've given you third party sources, sources from the band members themselves, sources stating their genres and them being ok with it, interviews, etc. The ChristianityToday article WAS NOT BIASED. It's a website related to a topic, the topic beaing Christianity. They happened to interview a band to see their take on it. It's the same thing with underoath. Underoath stated they are a Christian band, but that was a primary source. Do you propose that be taken out as well? As I Lay Dying never said "We're a Christian band" but stated that "there's no difference between four Christians in a band and a Christian band." Do do you propose that it be taken out of the Christian category? That's more than any source that says they are NOT that genre. Do you want the definition of Christian music? IronCrow (talk) 00:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

78.129.175.207 - You ahve broken 3RR, look at the history of the article and how many reverts you made BEFORE I made mine. I suggest keeping it before you are suspended.IronCrow (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I have only made 3 reverts to the article, you must hit 4 in 24 hours to break 3RR. You are the only one that has violated 3RR here. In fact you are at what 20 or so? 78.129.175.207 (talk) 00:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

They were of different users... unless you are implying that they were you. I was also trying to keep it to the consensus made before all the edits took place. I guess "Don't feed the troll" comes in right about here. IronCrow (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

3RR can involve multiple users, you are making the same edits to the article. Also, please familiarize yourself with WP:3RR you will see there that 4 edits is violating 3RR, not a mere 3. 78.129.175.207 (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do people keep falling back on "4 edits is violating 3RR, not a mere 3."?? Don't people ever read the part that says "the rule does not convey an entitlement to revert three times each day, nor does it endorse reverting as an editing technique. Rather, the rule is an 'electric fence'." Should an admin come by to view this article, the obvious edit warring would result in a number of blocks. Please leave the article alone and come to a mutual agreement that is in accord with WP policies and guidelines by using the talk page. I see that Iron Crow has made some suggestions below. Talk about them and offer options that will meet everyone's interpretations.TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 01:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

End of Debate
Instead of reverting and arguing, lets come up with a compromise in CONSENSUS. The arguing has wasted hours of my day that I will never get back and frankly, I'm old and tired. :) I say we take a break from editing and come back tomorrow to this article to come up with consensus, we all need a break. Please don't revert or mess with the article yet, and try to come up with solutions to this issue while on break. Thanks. EDIT: I got an idea already. How about we leave "Christian rock" out of the genre box, mention it in the intro, and save everything else how it is? Will that work? IronCrow (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I can blame my personal life for this, I sincerely apologize for my rude and frustrating comments, my mind is wandering off from a recent tragedy that has passed today, and I can't really find a way to get along with anyone so far. I apologize. Still, I do believe they are a Christian band based on the evidence, and I do think a consensus is needed rather than reverts and such. Hopefully you can forgive me for this, this is very unlike me (see my edit history), but even Wikipedians get angry. Still, I think you guys are disregarding what Wikipedia is (strict policy interpretation can be ridiculous in nature) and I am partially to blame for all this. Heh, maybe I'm the one who needs a break. IronCrow (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, my compromise still stands, but seeing as I will be gone for awhile, you can change it to whatever you wish, it's up to you since I will not be editing this anyways for awhile. However, if you do so choose to do this compromise, it might ease the issue a bit, at least for now. Again, it's up to you guys. To be real blunt, I honestly don't care anymore of what happens to the article, it's not an issue to me now. IronCrow (talk) 01:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Even if you don't care anymore I'm still not going to completely ignore what you want. I realize you have put a lot of time and effort into this today in attempt to do what you think is right. I stopped reverting your changes a long time ago, you are the one still edit warring over this. Anyways, I won't be editing the article anytime soon, I'll leave that up to someone else. Landon1980 (talk) 01:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

IronCrow, I am not angry with you in any way. I see your point, I do I promise and I hope you see mine. You haven't said anything all that rude, or all that out of the way. My intention was not to frustrate you, I promise I am acting in good faith. I will be the first to agree that the article needs to include something along the lines of what you are pushing for. This is just my opinion, and I'm not always right; but I don't think their genre is 'Christian Rock' I think they are a alternative/rapcore/whatever band with strong ties to Christianity. If it wasn't in the infobox would you agree to something similar to this? "Family Force 5 is a Rapcore band with strong ties to Christianity and target both a secular, and Christian audience." Not sure about the wording, but something similar. If not this, you reccomend something. Landon1980 (talk) 01:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That assumes too much. Just add the quote from ChristianityToday stating that they don't mind being called that or not in the intro, and let the reader assume what they will. That takes away the problem of having to word it to fit either side of the fence, since the quote is nuetral within itself. This is my last edit for the time being. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 02:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This Christianitytoday reference given in the article says "They insisted on waiting for an agreement that would allow them to reach the Christian market as well, eventually finding a dual deal with Maverick and Gotee records that allows just that." and "But once partying and silliness become the main focus for a Christian band—without a trace of redemptive qualities—their bohemian intentions can belie, or even blur, their own claims to spirituality. Why not straddle both continuums? Can't fluff and religious fervor coexist?"
 * It's not easy to summarize that in a few words. One possible wording might be "a band who have made efforts to reach the Christian market."  I'm just offering this as a suggestion.  I hope you can reach a mutual compromise with each other. :-) --Coppertwig (talk) 14:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion
I am responding to a request for a third opinion.

The premature removal of active discussion was not helpful (please see Talk page guidelines and Archiving a talk page). Has this dispute been resolved?

I'll watch this page for replies, so please respond here. — Athaenara ✉  10:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The dispute wasn't really resolved, at least in my opinion. But that doesn't matter, I just gave up because of editors who lacked WP:Common (The band wanting to be sold in the Christian market, etc), and I'm not trying to be rude when phrasing that way. They tend to think everything needs to be word for word, but like I said, I honestly don't care what happens to the article anymore, It's off my watchlist and I wont concern myself with it anymore. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 04:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Will this work?
Based on reading this discussion I think I may have came up with something everyone will be happy with. IronCrow said he would be ok with Christian Rock not being in the info box as long as the article mentioned something similar. I think that since a good source can't be found to back it up this will work better. Several reliable sources describe the band as a 'Christian crossover Crunk Rock Band'. What I'm thinking is make the first sentence "Family Force 5 is a Christian crossover crunk rock band from Atlanta. Will this please everyone? I wanted to share my idea before I incorporate it into the article, that way to make sure everyone can agree upon it. If anyone has any objections to this note them below, if so please explain why. Also, does anyone else have a better idea? Dwrayosrfour (talk) 18:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (Commenting here as Dwrayosrfour requested on my talk page.)
 * I think it makes sense, but I know next to nothing about any of these genres and I'm not involved in the dispute. — Athaenara  ✉  19:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The suggestion above suits me just fine, I think that is a good idea. It is neutral, and is properly sourced at the same time. Good Work! Hopefully this will prevent any dispute over this in the future, but who knows? Landon1980 (talk) 16:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Crunk rock
do not link to Crunk rock. Crunk rock is a lil Jon album. There is not wiki page for "crunk rock" if you want to make a linking term be sure to link to crunk, like so Crunk rock aka Crunk rock --Axcess (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

HAHA OK sorry, I had no clue. Landon1980 (talk) 04:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually regarding crunk rock, they say in a bunch of different interviews that they are no longer doing crunk music... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.188.59.219 (talk) 22:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Reference page gone
When I added the bit in Fatty's secion about Zoobilee Zoo, I had a reference online. I didn't add it at the time because I'm dumb, and now the site is gone. A Family Force 5 fansite put the article on their blog, but I guess Wikipedia doesn't allow MySpace blogs as references. What, if anything, should be done? PhamilyLove (talk) 17:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess there are 3 options: 1) find another reference, 2) remove it now, or (since it does not appear to violate biography of living persons) 3) leave it tagged as {citation needed} and wait for someone else to find a reference or remove it. Thanks for adding the other references! TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 17:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

List of song they have that are Christian rock
1.Replace me 2.Love addict 3.Face down 4.Never let me go 5.I love you to death 6.Supersonic 7.Peachy. Now, That seems like a good reason to add Christian rock to the genre's because that's six out of fifteen of their songs so I think that it should be changed. Right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 19:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Well come on, Yes or no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 01:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No. Basing genre upon a list you generated falls under original research and synthethis and is not allowed. You need to find a verifiable reliable shource who says it is Christian music. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 01:42, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Their so obviously Christian songs that you don't have to get a sorce! If you look up the lyrics for any of these songs and read them over you'll see how obvious it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 00:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. No original research.TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 00:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is one of a few refrences. 1. Their songs "Luv addict" and "I love you to death" are talking about christian love and not Relationship love and I know this because as I'm sure you know the members are Christians and No christian would right about what makes mainstreem rock sinful. 2. In their song "Luv addict" they say "I can't get enough of god" (and I did look up the lyrics" and in their song Replace me they say "Desperation, Needing you every breath I take in you" And they obviously say "You" In refrence to god. 3.In their song "Supersonic" They say "Do you wanna get supersonic? You gosta get supersonic" and I looked it up and I found out that they say Supersoic in refrence to Christianity and I don't even need to explane how Never let me go is talking about God cause that is the most obvios song they have! Is that enough Information for you?

I think it should be enough. And i also think you are right,in Never Let Me Go it is OBVIOSLY talking about God. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.171.116.56 (talk) 20:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Their also with a Christian lable and in the Thank you's in their Diamond edition of Buisness up front party in the back they say "First of all we'd like to thank Our Savoir Jesus cause with out him none of this would be possible".
 * Sorry, you are synthesizing information to arrive at your conclusion. Not allowed and reverted. Find a reliable 3rd party source that makes the claim. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 01:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not! All my information is reliable and no matter what you think they are a Christian rock band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 23:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 00:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh you don't know junk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The Derek Mount stated in this interview: http://www.thechristianpulse.com/index.php/20070930264/Music/Feature-Interviews/Family-Force-5.html "There is a major revolution taking place in this thing that we call 'Christian music,' and Family Force 5 is honored to be a part of it." ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 05:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Mister TheRedPenOfDoom, listen, you need to understand that to be able to verify something legitimately, it has to be true; so if you google FF5 you will find out that they are indeed Christian, so please stop arguing. It gets REALLY annoying! And if wikipedia isn't about the truth, then why do we bother using it? It is pointless to read something that is not true. (In the researching sense, obviously.) It doesn't matter what that rule says, when it isn't even referring to this subject. They are a real band that are christians. I have been to the CHRISTIAN music festival creation, and seen them play. Ergo, they are Christians.-71.241.94.233 (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Def. christian Rock. Radiator even is christian. they're talking about radiating god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:::::))))) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.13.39.85 (talk) 00:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Here you go
Let me begin by saying I believe this whole argument to be somewhat absurd. But here are some references.

"At the core are Jacob, Joshua, and Solomon Olds, who released an eclectic pop/rock album in 1995 as The Brothers. (Their father Jerome Olds was also a Christian artist in the late '80s" Clearly, by saying their father was also a Christian artist, the author is saying they are Christian artists. Later in the same article, he is complaining about just how secular this Christian band is, "Then there's the problem of "secularity." There's nothing wrong with a band's desire to stay up all night and party themselves silly; as the Beastie Boys would say, they can fight for that right, if they want. Limp Bizkit and Sugar Ray can get away with that. But once partying and silliness become the main focus for a Christian band—without a trace of redemptive qualities—their bohemian intentions can belie, or even blur, their own claims to spirituality."

Their label, Gotee Records, is a Christian Record Label. On their website, there is currently an article clearly stating such, "Gotee Records touts one of the most diverse artist rosters in the Christian music industry today. Launched in 1994 with their first signing, the sister-trio Out of Eden, Gotee is now home to Family Force 5, John Reuben, Sarah Kelly, Ayiesha Woods, Stephanie Smith, B.Reith, and Relient K."

And if that's not enough, I think the title of this next article should certainly cover it. "The colorful five-man Christian rock band from Atlanta who describe their Southern brand of rock and hip-hop as "crunk rock" swept seven categories in CCM magazine's 2008 Readers' Choice Awards."

So, there you have three different references stating them to be a Christian band. Please, stop this silly arguing. -- PEPSI2786 talk 22:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I so they are a Christian rock band? Yes or no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.72.26 (talk) 20:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for complying with WP:V. Having a Reliable Source, especially the Blade, you can add the material and the reference to the article. Congrats! TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 00:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But you didn't answer my question. Do you say they are or are not Christian rock? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 16:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't care whether they ARE or not, and neither does Wikipedia. You have a verifiable reliable source that says they are, and so you can include that information (with the proper sourcing) in the article. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 17:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If you look erlier into this disgussion you will see I've writen out some lyrics of songs that have Christian content and almost half have it so I think that is a reliable sorce. And I got the lyrics from the album its self cause I have it so that says it all and it is reliable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.70.33 (talk) 17:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Appropriate link?
The following link was added under external links - to prevent the article from becoming a link farm I have moved it here to gain concensus
 * Skeletour Photographs

Does the above link meet Wikipedia's external link guidelines? If so, does the inclusion of this link make any current links obsolete? Leave your comments below.TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 04:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Nu metal/Crunk rock
First. Would anyone agree that they sound somewhat Nu metal? And second. Why do people keep getting rid of Crunk rock without dissgussion? I think that's just rude and whimpy. 72.161.161.30 (talk)
 * What any of the editors here think the music sounds like doesnt matter. Editors need to provide a valid source that makes the analysis of 'what genre'. Information/analysis added without citing a source will continue to be removed. See WP:V as well. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Why do you think everything has to have a sorce? What if it was just common knowlage. And CCM magazine says their style is Crunk rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.161.30 (talk) 22:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that everything has to have a source because that is one of Wikipeidia's core policies. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 22:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Did it ever occour to you that wikipedia doesn't care about christian bands or anything of the sort. And its not like their going to find out anything we write so Wikipedia policy doesn't matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.161.30 (talk) 14:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We ARE Wikipedia - and WE do care that articles in Wikipedia follow Wikipedia policies- whether they are articles on Christian music, hydrogen atoms, rust, World War II, doors, Othello, rabbits, Abraham Lincoln, South America, Central Park or curling. The policies apply to ALL articles.
 * If you are unhappy with the policy of Verifiability, you can go to the WP:V talk page and try to build consensus to change the policy.TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 16:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Y'know what else is common knowledge? The spelling of the word "knowledge". XD   Anyway, I looked up "nu metal", and while I partially agree with it, FF5 can not be considered metal. If there was such a thing as "nu hardcore", that would be more of a comparison in my eyes. Cheers. SuperDMChan (talk) 16:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

But ether way they are Crunk rock and their are many sorces saying so. I just don't know how to post them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.82.38 (talk) 23:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are the instructions: WP:CITE
 * Or if you have online sources, just post the link here and someone can format it for you. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 23:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and added in the citation for Crunk Rock in the infobox. I also added a second reference, in case one is deemed insufficient. If any of the less experienced editors over here have any questions on how to do something, feel free to ask on my talk page (click on the word TALK in my signature), and I'll try to help out. -- PEPSI2786 talk 02:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm wondering as to why Crunk Rock is up there. It's not a real genre, by any means, and not one linking to Wikipedia (it links to a Lil' Jon solo album). Since "Crunk Rock" is as mucha genre as "Melodic Metalcore," shouldn't it, you know, not be there? I haven't removed it, I'm just saying that adding a musical genrethat doesn't exist is rather, well, not very encyclopdia-like. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 05:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Crunk Rock is listed as a genre because the band references themselves as being such. Genres, according to Wikipedia itself, "..are vague categories with no fixed boundaries. Genres are formed by sets of conventions, and many works cross into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions." As such, they do have a Crunk influence, and fit into such a genre. If you'd prefer to list the genre simply as Crunk in the infobox, rather than listing it as the Crunk Rock they call themselves and piping the link, I'd see nothing wrong with that. But, personally, I really hate these genre fights. Almost every modern band fits into dozens of genres and none at all at the same time. -- PEPSI2786 talk 08:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that "crunk rock" should be removed as a genre because it's basically the band trying to market itself as something "completely original" rather than a generally recognized genre. If someone can provide links to a couple OTHER bands who are being defined as the "crunk rock" genre, then I'm prepared to say it's a legitimate genre description. GBrady (talk) 19:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I see them lsited as Pop/Rock/Metal/Alternative/Nu-metal in most places, I'll add that but i cant find a reliable source that states those. 74.5.110.177 (talk) 10:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

75.13.39.85 (talk) 00:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)i just have to say that ff5 says they are crunk-rock and i think so too. 75.13.39.85 (talk) 00:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Musical Style
The style in their newest album has more of the '80s sound [1]. I wouldn't say it is crunk anymore. You can listen to their newest album (for a limited time) here. It should be noted in this article about the style change. Let hal  Ref  lex  21:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Update: jesusfreakhideout news link Let  hal  Ref  lex  15:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Why aren't their albums listed here?
This page is seriously incomplete. I'm not good at that stuff, so I'm not going to do it, but can someone add their discography here? Their isn't even a link to any album. Thanks Alexroxygirl (talk) 21:57, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There was some vandalism that was not removed earlier. This has been reverted. -- PEPSI2786 talk 00:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Other songs
Are these worthy of being included?


 * Master of Disguise - Unreleased song from when the band was known as 'The Phamily'.
 * Colour of Water - Originally only availabe on pre-release of Business Up Front/Party in the Back
 * Grandma - MySpace Exclusive (No longer available)
 * Mind's Eye (dc Talk cover) - Freaked! A Gotee Tribute To dc Talk's Jesus Freak
 * Whatcha Gonna Do With It - Available on the Hip Hope Hits 2008 compilation album

ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:13, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Weird yellow Instrment?
In the video for Grandma got ran over by a reindear they had this weird yellow instrument with what looked like black buttons on it.Could somone explane what that is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.44.105 (talk) 04:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * keytar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.30.117.186 (talk) 22:37, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Where each band member came from?
I can't find it any where!!!!!!!!Post where they all came from here:):):):):)!!!))) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.13.39.85(talk) 23:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

They are all from Atlanta Georgia as stated at the top of the page. Any other information is not relevant as the band members have no individual pages.

They're actually not all originally from Atlanta. In the song "Cadillac Phunque", they even mention the brothers are from Marietta in the lyrics.

Also, according to the IMDb, it's Marietta http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1190540/

Maverick?
Gotee is listed, but are they not on Maverick anymore? I can't find a source, but I'm probably not looking hard enough. Anyone? ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 05:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that now they're actually on Tooth and Nail, not Gotee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.84.202 (talk) 21:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I read an interview with Christianity Today (cough cough, SOOOO christian!) and they said that they started out with Maverick, and then switched to the Christian Gotee Records. Alexroxygirl (talk) 21:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * They originally signed a joint deal with Maverick and Gotee to distribute Business Up Front... to both the Christian and secular markets. They eventually dropped both and moved to Tooth & Nail. (Spencerz) —Preceding undated comment added 01:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC).

Lables
Why was mavrick removed from the lables? And I have Buissness up front party in the back Diamond adition and In the case it says that they're with Mono VS Stereo Records so why isn't it in their? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.82.38 (talk) 19:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Mono Vs Stereo is just the rock imprint of mainly hip-hop oriented Gotee records. Other rock bands signed to Gotee will sometimes use the MVS label just because it stands out as "Rock music." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.76.70.49 (talk) 22:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Might I suggest semi-protection?
Page is way out of whack. One of the sources (at least) has nothing to do with this group. (Albert Mond (talk) 05:33, 2 January 2010 (UTC))

"First UK Festival Appearence"
This isn't true as they played at Newday 2008. I was there and have a signed Lanyard to prove it ;) 86.128.80.127 (talk) 18:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Genre discussion
So there's been some edit warring and help desk discussion over the use of the term "crunkcore" for the genre. This is sourced to All Music Guide; the only previous discussion I can see on the subject is at Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 3, which I wouldn't take as conclusive. In the absence of better sources, we might be better doing away with it for now. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Crunk rock is now sourced as the same thing as crunkcore, per a Guardian article that is cited now in the FF5 page.--3family6 (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Simplify genres in infobox
Okay, so crunk rock has finally been sourced to be the same thing as crunkcore. Now, according to this policy, genre listing in the infobox should be fairly simple. Now, if there is no stylistic section in the main article, I think that the infobox can be more specific. But in the case of this article, there is a stylistic section in the article that gives details into the band's style, and so in accordance to policy the infobox should be generalized. By far, the most mentioned style is crunk rock/crunkcore, so I think that this should be the only style mentioned in the infobox, and let the main article text get into the details.--3family6 (talk) 22:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

New Album Title?
Does anybody know FF5's new (3rd) album title yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by FamilyForce5Freak (talk • contribs) 19:48, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

They're pretty sure it's called "III". 66.32.51.93 (talk) 18:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Time Stands Still (Family Force 5 album)
Hi, I noticed that User:Hannahro95 blanked the dab page Time Stands Still and overwrote the content of Time Stands Still (Family Force 5 album) into the space. I have left a message on User talk page saying "If you want to recreate the album you will need to ask an admin to do a history merge of the edit history Revision as of 02:30, 11 September 2010 (edit) to Revision as of 06:32, 17 November 2014. Please do not just copy the edit into the red space. " In ictu oculi (talk) 08:53, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It doesn't meet notability guidelines. It was the right thing to do. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:03, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Family Force 5. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071011203248/http://musicdownloads.walmart.com:80/catalog/servlet/AlbumServlet?id=230576 to http://musicdownloads.walmart.com/catalog/servlet/AlbumServlet?id=230576
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100201180742/http://www.parachutemusic.com:80/festival/index.php?option=com_content&id=12:line-up to http://www.parachutemusic.com/festival/index.php?option=com_content&id=12:line-up
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100324203638/http://www.stereotruth.net:80/2010/01/rock-and-worship-roadshow-2010-tour-dates/ to http://www.stereotruth.net/2010/01/rock-and-worship-roadshow-2010-tour-dates/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100505182505/http://uk.sonispherefestivals.com:80/2010/03/skunk-anansie-apocalytpica-gallows-fightstar/ to http://uk.sonispherefestivals.com/2010/03/skunk-anansie-apocalytpica-gallows-fightstar/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 19:37, 15 January 2016 (UTC)