Talk:Fan Kexin

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Revision by anonymous user to remove allegations of cheating
To avoid an edit war I’m withholding from reverting edits by anonymous user 66.8.166.218, but would like to know why allegations of cheating documented on various sources with video and images supporting the allegations are not valid. Cheating is wrong and notable even if not penalized by officials; why not include this in the article? SenorValencia (talk) 03:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You can count on CCP operatives scrubbing this page no matter how many times you edit it. She's a cheater, she should be banned from all international competition and stripped of any medals she ever got, but integrity in a sports organizing body is an extremely rare thing.

There is not a question of whether cheating is wrong. The issue is that the citations are poor. The articles cited (Daily Hive and news.com.au) reference Twitter and Reddit post for any allegations of cheating. Neither of which is a reliable source and under Reliable sources both are noted as unacceptable sources. Hence my noting that no official nor expert has made any allegations. And the Canadian team did not appear to file any protest either. 66.8.166.218 (talk) 19:58, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The Canadian team doesn't dare protest while any potential hostages are on CCP-occupied territory.


 * Applying Wikipedia's policy on reliability to sources used by secondary sources is irrelevant. We don't disqualify Al-Jazeera from reporting on the Arab Spring because Facebook was used to coordinate protests. We don't disqualify the New York Times because they took the word of a random White House staffer. Additionally, the rulings of the Olympic body are a WP:PRIMARY source and are more perhaps even more prone to bias than independent secondary sources. 93 (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

You're missing the point. I did not discount either of the news outlets. Al-Jazeera doesn't need to reference Facebook to be able to see that Arab Spring protests were happening. Facebook was a tool used for coordination, not the only reference to the fact that the Arab Spring was happening. A random White House staffer could be argued in a position of knowledge and expertise. Comparatively, the only allegations made against Fan Kexin was through Twitter posts and Reddit posts. An accurate portrayal of the situation is saying "Anonymous Twitter and Reddit users have accused Fan Kexin of flicking a marker at her opponent". These being the only sources of controversy listed in all the citations makes them unreliable. Also, you have the ruling body wrong, Olympics body (IOC) does not make the rulings, the International Skating Union (ISU) makes the rulings. And your argument that Olypmic body rulings are more prone to bias than independent secondary sources in an era of fake news and misinformation is shocking to me. 66.8.166.218 (talk) 23:59, 10 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Your insinuation that sources generally considered to be reliable (Newsweek, SCMP, and The Independent) are "fake news" is unsubstantiated and has no basis in Wikipedia policy or guidelines. If you have issues with them, start a discussion at WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.
 * Stating that social media are "the only sources of controversy listed in all the citations" is false. The sources describe video from the primary source, without citing social media posts, thus:
 * "In footage from the quarter-finals of the women’s 500 metres race on Monday, China’s Fan Kexin appears to flick a marker placed on the ice rink into the skates of Canadian competitor Alyson Charles, causing both racers to crash out." (SCMP)
 * "As the group rounded a bend, Fan appeared to steady herself with her left hand but came into contact with a black lane marker, which she seemed to flick into Charles' left skate as it landed." (Newsweek)
 * "Fan, 28, then reached over the leg of another skater and appeared to swipe the marker forward into the skates of Charles, 23." (The Independent)
 * Granted, many of those note that it is unclear whether the flick was deliberate, so I am adding that as clarification. 93 (talk) 02:21, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

You misrepresented my comments. I said "your argument that Olypmic body rulings are more prone to bias than independent secondary sources in an era of fake news and misinformation is shocking to me". I did not question the sources, I am surprised at your belief that independent news sources would have less bias given how many baised news sources there are. Let me add additional lines to what you have written:
 * "A Chinese short-track speed skater has been accused by some fans of deliberately taking out an opponent in the latest in a growing list of controversies surrounding the sport at the Beijing Winter Olympics." (SCMP); after the quote, cite to a thread by Twitter user @mojo_ca responding to @GlenMolloy1 making the accusation
 * "Audiences watching at home accused Fan of unsportsmanlike conduct and even cheating, however." (Newsweek); after the quote, cite to a thread by Twitter user @mojo_ca responding to @GlenMolloy1 making the accusation
 * "The video from a women’s short-track speed skating competition has been viewed more than three million times just hours after being posted on Reddit and led to a flurry of comments raising questions." (The Independent); quotes Twitter user @GlenMolloy1

You didn't include news.com.au, so let me add it.
 * "Social media users have been asking questions after a Chinese speed skater was caught in a compromising position at the Beijing Games." (news.com.au); cites Reddit post.

In each article, the authors write the accusations were coming from Reddit and/or Twitter and then describe the action. These articles are only describing online accusations from Reddit and Twitter. Furthermore, to fully describe the action, it should be be mentioned that Canadian Florence Brunelle was penalized for an illegal inside pass that caused the entire sequence (NBC Olympics). 66.8.166.218 (talk) 04:37, 11 February 2022 (UTC)