Talk:Farah Mir

Restoring Farah Mir's page
I'm not sure why the page for the character Farah Mir was redirected. I've restored it for the time being. Please explain the redirect. This is a new character just added to the cast of General Hospital. I've also added new references to the article. Zayya (talk) 05:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the sources, and let me explain... We have a WikiProject devoted to Soap Operas, and we were doing some cleanup lately, redirecting unsourced pages about minor characters to the "List of characters" page. This article got caught in that sweep.  However, if you're willing to dig up sources for this article though, to  prove that the character is "notable", then it shouldn't be too much a problem to maintain the page. If anyone disagrees though, the article may be submitted for a wider community discussion, and historically the community consensus has been to delete these pages.  So I recommend doing your best to "weight it down" with sources.  If it does turn out that the article gets  deleted though,  don't worry, it can always be easily re-created later, once more sources become available. BTW, you're welcome to join the project!  :) --Elonka 19:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw that the page got redirected again. I'd like to point out that this kind of a redirect is effective a "speedy deletion", and the policy on these is that if there is an objection, that speedy-delete can no longer be used.  If someone feels strongly though that the page needs to be deleted, then the next step would be a prod tag, or to send the page to AfD. --Elonka 15:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The character is not notible
She only appeared in 1 episode in which she was onscreen for less than 10 minutes. Sorry, but she is definatley not notible. --Santos25Q 13:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * She's done four episodes now and counting...Zayya (talk) 18:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I actually watch the show pretty faithfully. Unless I've forgotten, she has only appeared in 1 episode, and is most likely only scheduled to appear in 4. She's recurring, which means no contract, and most recurring characters aren't notable. Also, she's the mother of a pretty minor supporting character. Establishing notability is going to be a stretch here. A  ni  Mate  19:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, actually she's appeared in three! Check IMDb.Zayya (talk) 20:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw that, I just don't remember actually seeing her on screen. I'm assuming you know what the character did during those three episodes so that there can at least be a plot section. A  ni  Mate  20:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your recall of a show, and what you happen to see or miss seeing, is not a foundation for anything! Unless you tell me that you are in complete charge of which GH characters are to stay and who should be deleted, then I think you need to relax and let the storyline develop over the summer as these things do.Zayya (talk) 20:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was asking you to add a plot section to the article. As it stands, I'm being quite patient. If I were to put this up for AfD there is practically no chance this would survive. A  ni  Mate  00:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will add a plot section. There's no need for you to be impatient.  This isn't a matter of life and death!  It will get done but not on your timetable!  I don't understand the exigency of your response.  But yes, it will be done!Zayya (talk) 03:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've only seen this character in two episodes (June 9&10).

So, unless there's VIDEO evidence or any references from ABC.com (as this would be the most accurate source) to prove otherwise, then I'd say that this character is not notible at this time. StoneCold89 (talk) 05:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is video evidence. Review the past and upcoming episodes with Farah. Zayya (talk) 05:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have the airdates' on which farah appeared? also wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Just because a character is rumored to do this, that and the other, don't mean they will, and shouldn't be included until when and if they actually do. StoneCold89 (talk) 10:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you asking me to search and give you past air dates? Upcoming air dates can be found on IMDb. I've been an editor on Wikipedia with a huge amount of contributions and have been doing it long enough to know it is not a "crystal ball." Please don't insult my intelligence.  I'm not basing  anything on rumors but rather on what has actually aired! And as I view more, I will continue to add more.Zayya (talk) 15:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As you can read from the article, her first air date was June 9th. You can perhaps get a copy of the tape and view it if you like.Zayya (talk) 15:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I checked IMBd, They had two past airdates listed for June 9&10, the two I've already stated, and one feature, listed for today (July 3). The IMBd site also stated that it was/contained user submitted content, so it could be inaccurate. please understand: It is NOT my intention to imply that you're an idiot, I apologize if I seem to. And if you could put up links to your sources that would be helpful to the wikipedians who seek info on airdates and such.StoneCold89 (talk) 16:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * IMDb does a due diligence before listing anything regardless of how the information is obtained. I am a regular contributor on IMDb and can tell you that after years of making contributions, they will still check facts before they are listed.  Sometimes they actually will wait for the airdate before they list a credit.  IMDb is an industry source.  You could subscribe to IMDb Pro and get more information.  I think pretty much everyone in the business subscribes to it from agents, production, managers and press agents.  Suggesting that their source is not accurate or not reliable does not apply.  I don't think that Wikipedia is to be used as a source of "publicity" to list upcoming air dates and make such announcements.  Unless it's a feature film or a new project that say will premiere at a film festival.  Supplying continual airdates on episodics and daytime series is a bit much don't you think?  But I will supply links as they come up however, undoubtedly someone will label the links as "rumors."  I suggest we all chill out for a bit and come back to this.  We are all contributors and must respect each other's positions and statements. Peace. Zayya (talk) 16:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I just checked Rosie Malek-Yonan's website and it stated that she has a recurring contract, so the character is probably going to become more notable, so that's cleared up (for me at least). as for airdates I don't need any future ones, just any between June 11 '08 & July 2nd. if you find any in this date range please post the dates on this talk page. (this will help me or another wikipedian find info that will help expand the article.) Aside from posting any airdates in the aforementioned range, Let's call this discussion over. StoneCold89 (talk) 18:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, sounds good. Peace. Zayya (talk)

Notability
I'm starting this section in hopes of getting some third opinions on the notability of this character. A ni  Mate  07:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Third opinion: Um, I'm not sure why you listed this page on 3O; there's no discussion here at all about notability. However, I'd say that this article needs work - it's in-universe, and it doesn't really give any reason for her being notable. Maybe merge the article or something, I guess. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 02:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, most of the discussion has taken place on user talk pages. A  ni  Mate  02:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Gosh I'm not sure that I see a problem here. She seems to be a valid character.  I've checked the actor's official website, IMDb & sources listed as reference. I think you've got more than a "third opinion" here to keep the page. 3BluePenguins (talk) 06:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that every minor recurring character on a soap opera deserves their own article, because that's what this character is. She appeared three times and while she may appear more, she certainly not a major character and likely won't become one (though I don't have a crystal ball). A  ni  Mate  06:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, like I said, I don't see a problem here. I'm not going to engage in an argument with you. I've stated my opinion and it's as valid as you believe yours is. 3BluePenguins (talk) 07:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm certainly not trying to argue with you, and I certainly think your opinion is valid. However, this is a collaborative project which means we debate when there are differences of opinion. Right now one of my goals is figuring out what should be done with characters like this in the future. The consensus over at WikiProject Soaps has generally been that characters of this type aren't notable for their own articles and should be merged into larger "List of..." articles, though that's not binding in anyway. I still haven't really seen anything that says that this character is notable, and the arguments for notability seem to be that the character exists and has appeared on the show. That doesn't exactly equal notability. If you're uninterested in engaging in good faith debate, then perhaps this isn't the right project for you.  A  ni  Mate  07:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "...perhaps this isn't the right project for you." Hmmmm....I think that's for me to decide and certainly not you or anyone else.  Having said that, I didn't say that I was "uninterested."  I will usually step away from an editor who has a "one track mind" about an edit. It usually leads to conflict.  It seems like you're looking for someone to just "echo" your  opinion. I've stated my opinion.  I don't see a problem here.  She's a character on the show or at one point she may become a "past" character from the show.  Nevertheless she's a recurring character and that's good enough for me. 3BluePenguins (talk) 07:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * AniMate, can you please stay consistent as to where the discussion about this character is going to take place? You've been posting on my talk page and now here where the discussion should actually be. I'm still standing by what I've said on my talk page.  I think this page stays. Zayya (talk) 07:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You said you wanted me to ask for a third opinion and I filed a request at WP:3O. Because of that, discussion had to be moved here. It's starting to look like we're not going to agree here, so I think in the next day or so I'll probably nominate this for deletion and take the debate to a wider audience. A  ni  Mate  07:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The truth of the matter is, you asked for a third opinion and it seems like you have more than that here and still you want it your way. This is really personal with you...Wow!Zayya (talk) 07:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Zayya, like I said earlier, AniMate is just looking for someone to echo her opinion. I am going to say it again, I do not agree with the deletion of this page. There are other recurring characters that also need to have pages and I will see to it that they do.3BluePenguins (talk) 07:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

The only outside third opinion actually states that the user thinks it should be merged. 3BluePenguins edited this article in the past. However, this isn't personal at all. Articles related to soap operas are (unsurprisingly) fraught with drama. There have been a lot of pointless edit wars while trying to figure out some standards for inclusion in the encyclopedia. We've had articles on babies that have been on shows for a couple of years. We've had numerous articles on couples that fans thought were notable. We've had numerous articles on minor characters that people were sure were notable. Most of these have been redirected or deleted. Again, let me state that this isn't personal at all. I'm not mad or particularly invested, but I just don't think this character is notable at all. Considering the number of edits you've made to Rosie Malek-Yonan, one might argue that this is in fact personal for you. Just try and take a step back. Nothing I'm doing here is personal, and I've been quite patient (in my opinion) by letting this article develop to see if it had legs. It doesn't (again my opinion) and since our views are so disparate I figured an AfD is the best way to deal with this. Really, this isn't personal at all, though there have been a few personal comments aimed directly at me. Comment on content not on contributors, though if you must comment on me use the proper pronoun. I'm a "he" not a "she." A ni  Mate  08:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually there are other opinions stated here. I'm not going to re-cap.  You can read them above.  Yes, I have made numerous edits on Ms. Malek-Yonan, as I have on most of the pages I have created.  I enjoy seeing the pages grow and I continue to follow them and make updates.  I've been doing this for many years and I truly enjoy contributing and giving my time.  Ms. Malek-Yonan was on Star Trek and has a similar Wiki page for her Star Trek character.  Based on that, this is the reason I see no problem with the page for her GH character and don't understand why so much opposition. Anyway, look, the bottom line it that we are both editors and I certainly didn't intend on any disrespect.  I continue to stand by what I believe regarding the page for Farah Mir based on my experience with other actors' character pages of other shows. Zayya (talk) 09:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * AniMate, I have no way of knowing if you are a male or female. Hey, I think God is a "she".  Based on that, I didn't put you in bad company!  All kidding aside, this discussion is about the character of Farah Mir and Zayya has a valid point about other similar characters who have "pages".  I think that once a character is on a show as a contract player or recurring, they become part of the landscape of that show regardless of the size of their characters. 3BluePenguins (talk) 09:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)