Talk:Fast Flying Virginian

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I have the gravest doubts that "FFV" stood for "Fast Flying Virginian". (Compared to what? The Slow Flying Virginian? Doesn't "flying" all by itself mean speedy?) In Virginia "FFV" generally stands for "first families of Virginia", and is emblematic of quality, grace, urbanity, and distinction. There was, for example, a now-gone confectionary company called the F.F.V., and I'm sure that flying had nothing to do with it. Besides, if you where thinking of calling a train the Virginia Flyer (like the "Flying Scotsmanæ of yore, and the disconcertingly-named prewar German train "Der Fliegende Hambürger", why would you use initials, especially non-self-explanatory initials?? Whereas, to a Virginian (and in earlier times non0Virginians) F.F.V. would in fact have been self-explanatory as "First Families of Virginia". In a nutshell, it's pretty clear that "Fast Flying Virginian" is a mere guess at the meaning of the initials, and by someone not from Virgina.Alsihler (talk) 19:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Let me return to this subject.

From the beginning, the advertising for this train emphasized luxury, elegance, and the highest quality service, not speed. In any case, a chap named Thomas W. DIxon, Jr., published an article in the December 1979 number of the Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Newsletter on the history of the F.F.V. One thing immediately clear from this article is that, as of that date, no one actually knew what the initials stood for. That is in part because the train was never, ever, known as anything but the F.F.V.

Now, for a technical matter. The text is confused about the relationship between the Southern RR, the C&O, and Charlottesville.

The real story is this: C&O passenger trains out of Washington ran over Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac tracks as far as Alexandria, there peeling off onto Southern tracks to Orange, Virginia. There, they exited the Southern line (which was continuing on to Charlottesville, Lynchburg, and the rest), turning onto a connector track running southeast from Orange to Gordonsville, where it joins with the C&O main coming from Newport News. This track continues southward, on the southeast side of some high ground separating it from the Southern, and on to the C&O station in Charlottesville. About a mile to the east of the C&O station is the Southern station, where the C&O main crosses the Southern (now Norfolk Southern). The Southern station is actually a union station, with platforms on both lines, but only a few C&O trains stopped there as well as at the C&O station.

Since the coming of Amtrak, Amtrak trains on both the C&O (on the route described above) and Norfolk Southern have all used the Southern station, which is coded CVS (Charlottesville–Southern) in Amtrak timetables.Alsihler (talk) 23:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello Alsihler! I have researched a little to see if I could find reference to the full name "Fast Flying Virginian" in an early context.  From what I have found, this train was indeed known as the "Fast Flying Virginian", though it was commonly just referred to as the "F.F.V."  It is true that the initials F.F.V. also stood for "First Families of Virginia", but the train was officially known as the "Fast Flying Virginian."  According to Edgar Billups in his book, The George Washington published by the C&O Historical Society, the train was announced as "The Fast Flying Virginian Vestibule Limited" on its first trip.  The cars were compared by some to be like the home of one of the First Families of Virginia.  This appears to be how the connection with the First Families of Virginia was made and perhaps the common abbreviation of the full name.  However, it is clear that the name was indeed "Fast Flying Virginian", as corroborated by the following sources and many others not listed here:   - C&O advertisement with words "Fast Flying Virginian"...I also have another C&O advertisement that states the full name;  - distinguishes the meaning of the initials;  - another early source indicating the full name.  These sources provide clear evidence that the train's name was "Fast Flying Virginian"; therefore, I have removed the statements from the article that say otherwise.  Thanks!  MountainRail (talk) 01:13, 6 March 2013 (UTC)