Talk:Fastest recorded tennis serves

More information needed?
the article on Ivo Karlovic names him as having a 153 mph serve, which is not reflected here. Just wondering if there might be other serves that should be also listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.180.99 (talk) 04:25, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Tennis discussion
I was searching the WikiProject Tennis archives for something and found a discussion about this article at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis/Archive 6. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 18:31, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Accuracy
This is a discussion I’ve previously raised on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis although we didn’t come up with a solution there.

There seems to be quite a few serves missing in the men’s section. There are probably others, I think Phillipoussis, Dent and Rusedski have hit 140+ quite a few times.

I think it would be difficult to keep this article accurate and source it in it's current format; my searches didn't turn up a source compiling this information on the same basis. Each serve can probably be verified, but that doesn't guarantee that the ranking position on the list is correct because of possible missing entries.

If a player beats their previous best serve that's likely to feature in match reports, but if they serve below their previous best (eg Roddick serves in the low 140s) that might not get a specific mention as it would be nothing new. Even if considerable time was spent looking at past match reports, I don't think there’s a way of being sure it's complete. Cassandra 73 (talk) 11:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to add, this becomes an accuracy issue rather than just an issue of being incomplete because the list uses ranking positions. Cassandra 73 (talk) 12:09, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The list should be adjusted to show only each player's best serve. There is no realistic possibility of maintaining complete lists of all serves over 140/125, and very little point in attempting to do so. Luwilt (talk) 19:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Roscoe Tanner 153mph serve
I took this out of the main table and put it as a footnote because it was recorded by a journalist in the stands and is therefore unofficial. (I think on-court measurements are taken straight down the court, so if the journalist was positioned at an angle this measurement would be inconsistent with other measurements in this table.) This has since been reverted so in keeping with WP:BRD I thought I’d mention it here. Cassandra 73 (talk) 11:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This is the source I based my last comment on, just adding it here as it's now been taken out of the article. Date's also been changed to 1978 per Tanner's autobiography. I think this article must be talking about the same serve and has possibly got the date wrong (there would have been no point discussing an unofficial serve from 1976 if there was an official one from 1978). Also many secondary sources credit Rusedski's 149 serve in 1998, and also Phillipoussis' 142 in 1997   as a record at the time, which obviously it wouldn't have been if Tanner had an official 153. Cassandra 73 (talk) 18:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, "is not considered by many as an official record" should be changed to "is not an official record". Once it’s established who gets to decide — Guinness, or whoever — then either it’s an official record, or it isn’t, surely?  There’s no “considered” about it. Paul Magnussen (talk) 04:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Wawrinka 246km/h serve
Stan Wawrinka served a 246km/h ace against the Bryan Brothers in the 2008 Olympics Doubles semi-final, can that be added, or do serves in doubles games not count?
 * If you have a reliable source then it can be added. For example, the Ivo Karlović's 156 mph (251 km/h) serve was in a doubles match. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 20:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Some qualifications to this list
It would be useful to give some account of how the data on this list was collected. For instance, does anyone know when service speeds first began to be measured on the ATP and WTA tours? It would be worth adding to the article, if so. Furthermore, do all tournaments have the technology to measure the speed of a serve? If not, that would also be worth noting. ANB (talk) 18:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Orderering of the list
Hello. As of the moment the list is ordered in no particular manner when there are many serves of the same speed. Would it be wise to shuffle the list in either ascending or decending order based on the year/month the serve was hit? 211.31.46.171 (talk) 07:38, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I reordered the lists for a particular speed, 148 MPH for example, so that the first or oldest serve is at the top of the list and the newest is last. This also simplifies adding new rows as it's painful to change the first row for a particular speed. The odds are lower that someone will discover, and be able to reliably source, a new serve that predates others at that speed. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

1978, Colin Dibley, 149 mph
How come this isnt on here — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperDuy (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I suspect it was not in an ATP match. Dibley is known for 148mph set in 1974 and bettered by Rusedski's 149mph in 1998. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:45, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Julian Alonso serve?
I remember Julian Alonso served one at 140mph. I can't remember where it was and when, but he definitely served one that fast...

Unverified additions
User:92.15.75.128 added two lines without sources. I was unable to verify either and so have moved them here until the editor can provide a citation.

--Marc Kupper&#124;talk 04:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Milos Raonic - can't verify 153 mph, found WP:RS for 150 mph
I'm was not able to verify Milos Raonic's 153 mph serve for the 2011 Davis Cup but did locate a citation for 150mph against Roddick at the 2011 Memphis tournament and so have bumped Raonic down the table.


 * is probably the source for 153 mph. It says "Milos Raonic is already firing at 153 mph (246 kph)" but it's not clear at all if he's ever hit that in a match.
 * has "Raonic, whose serve regularly hits 245 kilometers per hour (152 mph)" but again no mention of specific matches.
 * credits Raonic with 151 mph — just beyond the service line.
 * seems to be based on Wikipedia but does add "In addition to his 152-mph output, Canada's Raonic hit 150 mph at the Regions Morgan Keegan Championships in Memphis."
 * has "Raonic, who once had his serve measured at 217 kilometers or 150 mph-plus." This is a Jul 17, 2009 article and he did not play in an ATP tournament until 2010.
 * "... his serve, which he can hit for aboot, 150 m.p.h." and "he paced the field in aces (58) and serve speed (149 m.p.h.)" which is at the 2011 San Jose.
 * ends with "Milos Raonic, an upstart Canadian with a 150 mph serve."
 * "Milos Raonic ... with the 150-mph serve"
 * "Milos Raonic, ... gotten much buzz for his 150 mph serve"
 * His ATP, ITF, and Davis Cup profiles do not mention the service speed at all.

Some reliable sources for 150mph are:
 * "who can hit 150 mph (240 kph)" and "... Raonic ... able to power up as high as a 150-mph ace against Roddick."
 * This mentions the 150mph serve and that it's the first time he played Roddick. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 09:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Sabine Lisicki
According to this Youtube film Lisicki hit 210 kph, which would be the fastest ever. I can't find a reliable source to confirm this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmjZdqcEd0c Grushenka (talk) 12:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Grushenka (talk • contribs) 12:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What bothers me is that this would be a world-record serve meaning it should have been well covered by the media. I'm inclined to think the video was faked or that it was determined that there was an error. For example, "Sabine Lisicki" serve "world record" gets two hits - neither about her setting a new record. Shooting for just "record" is "Sabine Lisicki" serve record commonwealth also has two hits. One of them mentions 185 kilometers per hour and 189 kilometers per hour serves by Alisa Kleybanova. There's this mention of "often launching serves of over 120 mph as she scattered nine aces during the match." Using the Gale (Cengage) news search for (tx (Sabine Lisicki)) And (tx (serve)) And (tx (record))LIMITS:(DA (20090101 - 20100101)) (mentions of a serve in 2009) found 16 articles. Replacing "record" with "Commonwealth" returns five articles. I also tried using '"Sabine Lisicki" Czink Bali'. In all cases, there was never mention of a particularly speedy serve by Lisicki. My last effort was a Google for site:commbanktennis.com serve Lisicki. commbanktennis.com is the tournament's site on the assumption that the tournament would not pass up a chance to mention that a world record had been set. There were 38 articles and no mention of a fast serve. The article 2009 Commonwealth Bank Tournament of Champions has a lot of detail and again, no mention of this serve.


 * As this 210 kph serve can't be verified I'd say we can't use it on Wikipedia. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 17:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, the WTA's recent "IDS Serve Speed Leaders" list shows lower official speeds for each of the top four women on the list. I just reedited the main page to reflect those figures, which flip 2nd and 3rd place. Sabine is currently 7th at 124.0 mph, served at the 2010 US Open. — Glenn L (talk) 19:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you - When I have free time I've been slowly going through the list of players checking for reliable sources. I was intending to complete the men's list but saw all the editing on the women's side and so may jump down and take a look at that. The IDS list is limited in that they monitor a few specific tournaments and apparently only on the main or "show" courts at those events. Thus the Wikipedia list may not match IDS's list. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 03:29, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I am removing Sabine Lisicki's "130.2 mph" serve from the list. While the IDS list may be somewhat limited, it would have data for the US open and Sabine did not serve that fast there this year..completely fake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.84.93 (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Men's speed list
I just tried to find a similar list on the ATP (Men's tennis) web site but so far haven't found one yet. I like the IDS list as it weeds out quirky speed guns like the one that recorded Sabine's speed in Bali. — Glenn L (talk) 06:38, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I found the men's list on page 205 of the 2011 ATP World Tour Media Guide
 * Fastest Serves Recorded (since 1990)
 * {| class=wikitable

! Rank !! Name !! MPH !! KPH !! Tournament
 * 1 ||A. Roddick (USA)  || align=right|155.00 || align=right|249.4 || 2004 Davis Cup SF vs. Belarus
 * 2 ||T. Dent (USA)     || align=right|149.80 || align=right|241.0 || 2006 Rotterdam
 * 3 ||I. Karlovic (CRO) || align=right|147.00 || align=right|236.6 || 2006 Las Vegas
 * 4T ||G. Monfils (FRA) || align=right|146.00 || align=right|235.0 || 2007 Washington
 * 4T ||D. Vemic (SRB)   || align=right|146.00 || align=right|235.0 || 2008 Los Angeles
 * 6 ||I. Ljubicic (CRO) || align=right|145.00 || align=right|233.4 || 2007 Indian Wells
 * 7T ||J. Tsonga (FRA)  || align=right|144.20 || align=right|232.0 || 2004 Paris
 * 7T ||F. Verdasco (ESP) || align=right|144.20 || align=right|232.0 || 2009 Roland Garros
 * 9T ||M. Fish (USA)    || align=right|144.00 || align=right|231.7 || 2007 Indian Wells
 * 9T ||J. Isner (USA)   || align=right|144.00 || align=right|231.7 || 2010 US Open
 * }
 * (Continued on next page)
 * It ends with "Continued on next page" but either that's a mistake or they forgot to continue it. Roddick's article in the media guide says "Recorded world’s fastest serve at 155 mph in Davis Cup SF (vs. Voltchkov) on Sept. 24." --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've updated the men's list to include everything from the 2011 ATP media guide. A couple of things need research. I'm wondering if we should raise the cut-off from 140mph to 145mph. That would get the list down to a more reasonable size plus simplifies the research job to get everything onto reliable sources. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 00:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * 7T ||F. Verdasco (ESP) || align=right|144.20 || align=right|232.0 || 2009 Roland Garros
 * 9T ||M. Fish (USA)    || align=right|144.00 || align=right|231.7 || 2007 Indian Wells
 * 9T ||J. Isner (USA)   || align=right|144.00 || align=right|231.7 || 2010 US Open
 * }
 * (Continued on next page)
 * It ends with "Continued on next page" but either that's a mistake or they forgot to continue it. Roddick's article in the media guide says "Recorded world’s fastest serve at 155 mph in Davis Cup SF (vs. Voltchkov) on Sept. 24." --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've updated the men's list to include everything from the 2011 ATP media guide. A couple of things need research. I'm wondering if we should raise the cut-off from 140mph to 145mph. That would get the list down to a more reasonable size plus simplifies the research job to get everything onto reliable sources. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 00:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * }
 * (Continued on next page)
 * It ends with "Continued on next page" but either that's a mistake or they forgot to continue it. Roddick's article in the media guide says "Recorded world’s fastest serve at 155 mph in Davis Cup SF (vs. Voltchkov) on Sept. 24." --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've updated the men's list to include everything from the 2011 ATP media guide. A couple of things need research. I'm wondering if we should raise the cut-off from 140mph to 145mph. That would get the list down to a more reasonable size plus simplifies the research job to get everything onto reliable sources. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 00:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Reda El Amrani
In this edit someone added Reda El Amrani for 151mph at Meknès Challenger. I searched the Google News archives for '"Reda El Amrani" (151 OR 240 OR 241 OR 242 OR 243)' and did not find any evidence for this serve. I deleted the line. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 00:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Unable to verify Dmitry Tursunov at 147mph
The list had Dmitry Tursunov at 147mph during the 2006 Davis Cup. I deleted this as I was unable to verify this serve. I used Google News (reviewing all articles that mentioned the Davis Cup in 2006) and Gale (Cengage) where I reviewed all articles found by (tx (Dmitry Tursunov)) And (tx (Davis Cup))LIMITS:(DA (20061201 - 20070101)). There was a 203km/h second serve by Philippoussis ... catching Tursunov completely off-guard and mention of "phenomenal serving" and "Serving hard" by Tursunov but no mention of his serve speed. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 19:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Anna-Lena Groenefeld.
According to the IDS Serve Speed Leaders Anna-Lena Groenefeld has a 125 mph (201.1 kph) serve at Indian Wells 2009. I can't find any sources other than that list, maybe someone with better search skills could find something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.215.239 (talk) 14:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Jerzy Janowicz
Can someone that is corrected in this table were served by Jerzy Janovičz fastest service 231 kilometer per hour? --Kolega2357 (talk) 20:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Now the first serve, 242 kph, quoted by 31.11.190.152 on 4 November, was a "let" serve in the Bercy final v Ferrer. Is that really counted?
 * If not, then Janowicz's fastest serve in the tournament would be reverted to 236 kph in the same match, which is already impressive. (Those in doubt can refer to the FFT site, merci!) --1.64.45.209 (talk) 11:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If not, then Janowicz's fastest serve in the tournament would be reverted to 236 kph in the same match, which is already impressive. (Those in doubt can refer to the FFT site, merci!) --1.64.45.209 (talk) 11:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Challenger vs ITF Tournaments
Jerzy Janowicz said that challenger and ITF tournaments do not use the same balls (source: http://www.eurosport.fr/tennis/paris-bercy/2012/janowicz-c-est-comme-dans-un-film_sto3477845/story.shtml ), so we cannot make the comparison between "challenger speed records" and "ITF speed records". Challenger tournaments use "tretorn balls" that allow higher service speeds. Janowicz himeself said that he reached 251km/h in a challenger tournament with tretorn balls.

Tammi Patterson
are you kidding me? The girl can barely serve 100mph. Obvious radar gun error — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.232.170 (talk) 14:39, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Wrong flag for Samuel groth
As per title. Groth is Australian. 101.119.14.192 (talk) 11:36, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Fastest "averaged" serve
We might want the "biggest" serve in history.

When his game was on, Roscoe Tanner's frequent 140 mph, with the old-school rackets, would have to be the all-time record. JohndanR (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Groth listed twice?
It appears someone entered Groth a second time for a 2014 match, but per the criteria he should only be listed once.

More relevant photo?
Yes, the photo looks like Sam Groth but wouldn't it be better if he (or anybody really) was hitting a serve instead of a backhand? --76.93.225.136 (talk) 23:55, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Savo D?
What on earth does the entry "Savo D" above Andy Murray mean? And why does it say "2016 University of Nottingham" to the right linked to an apparently unrelated page? 81.96.151.15 (talk) 12:21, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * This has been fixed by someone. Gap9551 (talk) 18:38, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Unverified at the moment

 * Roddick hit 160 mph but the ball was out. It was in the same DC match vs Belarus where he hit 155mph.
 * Chris Guccione 154 mph and 151 mph in Davis Cup 2006 vs George Bastl and 144 mph
 * Taylor Dent 153 mph in a match against Henman or Bercy 2005 and 150 mph http://www.si.com/tennis/photos/2011/03/10fastest-serves-in-tennis
 * Illia Bozoljac 153 mph Davis Cup versus Great Britain 2006
 * Feliciano Lopez 150 mph against Stepanek 2008 Toronto Masters
 * Robin Söderling 145 mph possibly 2009, US Open
 * Nicolas Massu 144,40
 * Marat Safin 144 mph and 147,3 mph
 * Fernando Gonzalez 144 mph
 * Agustin Calleri 229 km/h (143 mph)
 * Mark Philippoussis 142,29
 * Sam Querrey 142,29 mph
 * Benjamin Becker 142 mph
 * Max Mirnyi 142 mph
 * Carlos Moya: 141
 * Wayne Arthurs:	141 mph
 * Danielle Bracciali 141 mph
 * Mario Ancic 141 mph
 * Jose Acasuso 140 mph 142,29 mph
 * Julian Alonso 140 mph, 141 mph and 143 mph
 * Wesley Moodie 140
 * James Blake 140,43
 * Nicolas Kiefer 140
 * 140+ mph are for sure Marc Rosset, Richard Krajicek, Goran Ivanisevic


 * Venus Williams 130 mph (209 km/h), Zurich 2008
 * Brenda Schultz 130 mph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.121.180 (talk) 21:05, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

this article needs redesign!! suggestion
Please consider.

Fastest serve is a trivia fact. It's interesting, allows to guess/assume average serve speed of players. But speed alone does not amount to anything. Speed, placing, spin all attribute to good serve. There are very small differences in speed records, huge amount of players and even bigger amount of tournaments. It's impossible to keep track of these records. There is also a problem of non-standardised radar guns, elevation, indoor/outdoor, balls used... which contribute to speed records. There is also a problem of sources for these lower speed records. So to keep this article relevant and accurate as possible I have a few suggestions:


 * As there is such a huge amount of players and this list is only going to get bigger and bigger I would make two sections as follows:
 * 140mph - 144mph

In each of these sections I would only list players (by last name) that have recorded their (at least) 2 top serves in that range (it really isn't that much difference between 226 and 225 km/h; or one in range and the other above range) in (at least) 2 different tournaments (at least 1 in one tournament and second in other tournament) - that way we would minimize errors caused by issues mentioned before and be more sure of player's real ability, that his one-off speed record isn't really radar gun error - as said before, exact number in these lower ranges is not that relevant due to problems involved but also due to reason that lower speed can be compesated wih more spin etc.
 * 145mph - 149mph


 * For 150mph and above I would leave table as it is with events listed but because that is such a big speed and there isn't many players that achieved that speed and due to nature of this article I would list multiple records by players (all 3 Groth's records, all of Roddick's...) - and point out players that have achieved 150+mph speed in at least 2 different tournaments.

Also bold active for easier editing.

This way we would have good overview of the situation, really fastest serves (not fastest serves per player, as it is) and highly accurate and a lot more easily sustainable article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.121.180 (talk) 22:55, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Georgina Garcia Perez
I know that Georgina is aiming for this record, but that 220km/h in the article is just wrong and has to be deleted. Yeah, the speed gun showed 220 km/h but it was a FAULT serve. She actually scored another 220km/h but that time it was a LET - closer, but cannot be considered a record. Since then, she played in MD in Bogota, but I don't think she even reached 200km/h there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.252.11.9 (talk) 16:27, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Lorenzi 254 km/h
Lorenzi's 254 km/h sevice listed in the was probably a measurement mistake. At least judging this discussion which also points out that the page with stats for the match now shows 194. (The same discussion also contains a screenshot of that page when it was showing 254. It is on the first page of the discussion.) --Kompik (talk) 11:43, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

The new official world record listed by Paolo Lorenzi does not cite any sources, nor does googling reveal any sources other than forums referencing this Wikipedia page, and it seems like there would be news articles if the record had actually been broken. The Lorenzi record is probably an error and should be either removed or sourced. Mynameisntbob1 (talk) 21:28, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Have reverted the unsourced addition of Lorenzi's record given the correction on the official stats page.--Wolbo (talk) 22:12, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Federer's 143 mph?
Someone who likes Federer invented this fact just so that he could appear on the list after the bottom limit was changed from 140 mph to 143 mph. I remembered that for years, we had Federer's record listed as 140 mph at Halle 2010, I always had some doubts but now, the number suddenly changed from 140 to 143 after they made the change that would've left Federer's out of the list. 190.238.105.202 (talk) 14:24, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Addition?
Leonardo Mayer 144mph Cinncinati 2018 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.74.210.46 (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Type ---> Surface and In/Out
I think that "type" column is unnecessary. Really tells us nothing. It would be slightly better if that would be information about player (whether he is singles or doubles player - that could be determined by the number of finals appearances, but is also ambiguous) and in the end tells us almost nothing.

I think it would be better if that column were to be replaced by "surface" and "indoor/outdoor" column. That information could tell something. 213.149.62.180 (talk) 00:02, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Serves "Not recognized by ATP" is incorrect/made-up?
The table lists Sam Groth's serve as "Not recognized by ATP". But his serve was hit during an official ATP challenger event and there is a post on the official ATP website that states it is the fastest serve. So all evidence points towards it being officially recongnized by the ATP. The post states that the ATP doesn't officially recognise fastest serves, but that would mean every serve on the list should be "Not recognized by ATP". On the other hand, they also state that the recording equipment was approved and that other readings suggest it was functioning correctly - i.e. it's as close to official as possible.

Similarly, the fastest serve on the list that IS, allegedly, recognized by the ATP (John Isner's serve) is not mentioned by the ATP at all. They don't have a post about the serve nor does the ATP maintain their own list of fastest serves (as mentioned previously, ATP does not officially recognize any fastest serves) that he would show up on. The citation is from Fox Sports who are very much not the ATP.

What is the criteria for a serve to be, or not be, "recognized by ATP". Just looking at those two serves, it seems the serve labelled as "Not recognized by ATP" is in fact more recognized than the serves which don't have that label. 131.111.5.38 (talk) 00:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The idea that ATP event radar speeds are "official" is made up, but the it is true that Groth's serve isn't "recognised" in the sense that teh ATP don't have an article up about it like they do for Shelton's serves. By that definition, Isner's "157 mph" serve is also not recognised. The ATP know their radar machines aren't reliable and they know that's an outlier. Shelton's have been repeated multiple times with the latest equipment so far less dubious. Alec Gargett (talk) 01:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree. And without some standard definition of atp recognition it's just distracting to label something as recognized or not. I propose not having this designation. Briday1 (talk) 15:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Brenda Schultz listed twice
Remove second listing 122.167.74.0 (talk) 04:26, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

ATP max serve speed is not reliable, so Fokina etc based on ATP match stats alone should be removed.
Max speed on ATP match stats is not reliable & entries with only this as a source should be removed. Isner clocked in a 4718 km/h on ATP match stats for example: https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/stats-centre/archive/2022/416/MS020

So the Fokina serve is was probably a radar glitch, given how much shorter he is than everyone else on the list above Roddick.

Alec Gargett (talk) 01:23, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * In fact, it brings the whole list into question, since it's all based on the same limited technology. It would be more useful to have a list of "Fastest servers" by average serve speed, average first serve speed, and average second serve speed, since the averages are much more reliable. Alec Gargett (talk) 01:29, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

How do we verify the serve moving forward then? I like the idea of having fastest average first serve speed, though that might bias players with fewer matches. Mpaddock12 (talk) 04:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)


 * If we are going to keep this list of the fastest serves ever, rather that replacing it with the fastest averages, then for now I'd only include the fastest serves that are reported elsewhere, not only on the ATP's official website. Alec Gargett (talk) 07:23, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will move these dubious ones to the section in the beginning that suggest radar gun error. Mpaddock12 (talk) 07:01, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be useful to have a list of the fastest average first serve too, much more useful than the fastest serve. I think we should narrow the fastest recorded serves down to the top 20 fastest and find some data on fastest overall averages.♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:36, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I'd be happy to add a list using first serve averages from Tennis Abstract. Alec Gargett (talk) 05:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

On further investigation, I'm starting to suspect that *all* of the 150mph+ serves are radar errors. Even Isner, Karlovic, Opelka almost never go above 142mph, so hitting over 155mph seems like a suspicious outlier. Alec Gargett (talk) 05:23, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Sam Groth has been recorded hitting 146-147 on at least 5 occasions, so that is probably accurate, but I suspect all of the "once off" speeds above 147 mph that are way above the other recorded speeds by that player are radar errors. 

I think it we create a table that has their fastest recorded speed (marked as dubious) and also their fastest recorded *non-outlier* speed, and their average first serve speed, that would go a long way to eliminating outliers. Alec Gargett (talk) 05:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added another two columns. I think we can remove the dubious tags now just because the whole column is pretty dubious & I think the other two columns make that clear. Alec Gargett (talk) 06:48, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Average serves
Do we know who has the highest consistently fastest average in serves? I would guess John Isner has got to be up there? ♦ Dr. Blofeld  19:56, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Trying comparing the servers currently listed on this wiki page on this website here and please report back :) Alec Gargett (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Karlovic had a slightly higher average first serve speed than Isner:
 * And Opelka has the fastest average first serve speed of the three: Alec Gargett (talk) 04:59, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Have added all of them and a few more to the article. Alec Gargett (talk)

Non-outlier fastest serve
I've defined a non-outlier serve as a serve that is within 5 mph of at least one or two other serves by the same player. Open to changing this. Alec Gargett (talk) 01:53, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I think the non outlier speed being mentioned in the table suggests it is a measure of the same serve. As if there were multiple radars involved and we're suppressing the outlier. I realize that's not how it works, but I think including this and the average first server speed is just distracting from what this article's purpose is. I'm in favor of removing the non outlier max and the average first serve speed. Briday1 (talk) 15:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Dubiousness of outliers must be mentioned within first two sentences
The dubiousness of outlier speeds must be mentioned within first two sentences, otherwise the whole list will be misleading for anyone who doesn't read further than that. I've made the necessary changes to avoid misleading people. Alec Gargett (talk) 01:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Extraordinarily poor organization of this article
When someone comes to read this article, they are not looking for the outliers with speeds that are beyond ridiculous.

So it is a very bad idea to begin this article with that paragraph.

Put it way down in the article and begin with the fastest serves that seem to have been accurately recorded.

ATP Average Serve Speed
ATP has Isner at 128 MPH average but is ATP bad for average speed’s? Seanstatguy (talk) 19:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)