Talk:Fathead (album)

Ray Charles Sextet vs. Fathead, Ray Charles Presents David 'Fathead' Newman

 * 1) Currently (2009 January) in wikipedia, an album titled Ray Charles Sextet is listed in the Ray Charles template (Template:Ray Charles) under "Studio albums".
 * 2) This Ray Charles Sextet album name also appears in the infoboxes of two other Ray Charles albums, Genius + Soul = Jazz and The Genius Hits the Road as the "next" and "previous" Charles releases, respectively.
 * 3) No album named Ray Charles Sextet is listed in the Ray Charles discography wikipedia article however.
 * 4) An album titled Ray Charles Sextet (1960) is listed on the Ray Charles web site (link) but no information regarding content is provided.

After some quick research on the web, it appears the album referred to in the above wikipedia references as Ray Charles Sextet is an Atlantic Records album recorded in 1958 and released (originally?, only?) under the title, Fathead, Ray Charles Presents David 'Fathead' Newman.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Ray Charles or David (Fathead) Newman but in the quick research I've done on the web, it appears to me that the Atlantic Records album Fathead, Ray Charles Presents David 'Fathead' Newman is intended to be a David Newman album, not a Ray Charles album. At least originally, and in the USA. I may be wrong - perhaps there is some consensus among more knowledgeable people that Ray Charles was the "real" leader of this session??? Or perhaps Ray Charles is considered to be the co-leader of this session??? Or perhaps this album was re-released in some countries under a different title (e.g. Ray Charles Sextet) to take advantage of Ray Charles' greater name recognition???

I've tried to find evidence of these theories but the only thing I've found is an allmusic.com reference to an album titled Ray Charles Sextet, Atlantic 1304 (link) which, nevertheless, includes only the same track listing, recording date and album number as the album Fathead, Ray Charles Presents David 'Fathead' Newman (Atlantic 1304). There is also a separate, more complete allmusic.com article, including an album review, listed under Fathead, Ray Charles Presents David 'Fathead' Newman, Atlantic 1304 (link)

Certainly David Newman's "official" home page (link) lists this album as a David Newman release - Newman's debut recording as a leader in fact - although, as noted above, an album titled Ray Charles Sextet (1960) was also listed on the Ray Charles web site / discography (link) as well.


 * Does anyone have any good references that indicate this album was released (when?, where?, by whom?) under the title, Ray Charles Sextet?


 * Does anyone have any good references that indicate this album was intended (by its creators) to be a Ray-Charles-as-leader-or-co-leader release?

If not, I would propose removing this album title from the Ray Charles chronology and from the Ray Charles template and treating it as a David Newman release (with Ray Charles being a sideman)  i.e. with regards to Ray Charles discography, treat this album similarly to how the 1972 album, Ray Charles Presents the Raelettes might be treated. Pugetbill (talk) 20:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * After waiting for feedback, I have made the above suggested changes (to treat Fathead,... as a David Newman recording, not a Ray Charles recording) and kept the Fathead,... / Ray Charles Sextet link only in the "see also" section of the Ray Charles template. Pugetbill (talk) 16:14, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

"Hard Times" vs "Hard Times (No One Knows Better Than I)"
According to the allmusic.com reference, the song on this David Newman album is "Hard Times" by Paul Mitchell, not "Hard Times (No One Knows Better Than I)" by Ray Charles. Compare:
 * "Hard Times" (Mitchell)

and
 * "Hard Times" (Mitchell)

with
 * Hard Times (No One Knows Better Than I) (Charles)

Pugetbill (talk) 21:24, 21 February 2009 (UTC)