Talk:Fatima Massaquoi

Candidate for further collaboration?
I have been working on Fatima Massaquoi who appears to have been a highly active figure in Black Women's History. Not only did she stem from the royal families of Sierra Leone, she also contributed significantly to the cultural life of Liberia. She has gained prominence in the West since her early memoirs, The Autobiography of an African Princess, were published in 2013. Thanks to, we already have a picture. Would any of you (or anyone else interested in Black Women's History) be interested in collaborating further on the article, perhaps again with a view to reaching GA (or at least getting the article to DYK)? While the interesting history of her autobiography could no doubt be expanded in the biographical article, it could also form the basis of a separate article on the book itself. I look forward to hearing your reactions.--Ipigott (talk) 07:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invite I'm interested. Let me see if I can find anything to contribute. SusunW (talk) 14:31, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That's great. There's all kinds of stuff about her family heritage, copyright conflicts with her professor at Fisk and, of course, lots more biographical info from her autobiography. I am by no means a specialist in the field but you are well placed to know what's important. She apparently also compiled a dictionary of the Var language and wrote other linguistic papers.--Ipigott (talk) 15:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * a fair use stop-gap image. long term project to get a free one. maybe a talk with the holder / archives to digitize her primary source material. Duckduckstop (talk) 16:20, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can find, . :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work on the article, especially the Harvard referencing. I have just spent an hour listening to her daughter's presentation at the LoC from your EL link: very interesting and informative. It contains a few published photographs. I don't know if it is possible to copy them. The one from Le Figaro showing her at the Unesco conference in November 1960 (displayed at 33' 42") is probably the most important. Can anyone (?) copy this from the video for uploading onto Commons?--Ipigott (talk) 08:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You are welcome for the wee bit I did changing over references and adding newspaper articles. Cannot take credit for the external link. That was all  SusunW (talk) 15:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * hmm, that is a nice group shot, but we are limited to one fair use, maybe UNESCO might have some free material in their archives, i should contact the WIR John Cummings. Duckduckstop (talk) 20:11, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * would this one be useable? 1945? SusunW (talk) 20:55, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * good find. yes, it may be PD not renewed. i suspect it was registered; the Copyright office shows registration starting in 1978. let me think on whether it was renewed or not. Duckduckstop (talk) 21:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I have also found a useful journal article in a PDF file with www.google.lu/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZ9c7s0u_KAhWDWRoKHaHnBQQQFgg3MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscholarworks.iu.edu%2Fjournals%2Findex.php%2Flsj%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F4154%2F3781&usg=AFQjCNF0LmSxEzPJeIBHgG2XoPnFJklKxw which Wikipedia will not accept. Does anyone know how to include an acceptable version of the URL in the references or is it sufficient to include the journal reference without a link? --Ipigott (talk) 15:42, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * will it take this? SusunW (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Can you please tell us the title of what you linked above as a PDF? It's not that Wikipedia won't accept it.  I tried it on my computer, and it is a download directly to my computer.  I deleted it without opening it.  If you will tell me the title of what you have linked, perhaps I can find it somewhere else for you. — Maile  (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * "Oration: Readjustment and Development of Liberia as an African State Delivered at the Celebration of the Independence of Liberia at Monrovia, Liberia July 26, 1921" Liberian Studies Journal XXXI 2006 is the name of it. But can you access the link I posted? SusunW (talk) 16:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * the link you posted automatically downloads it as a file onto my hard drive. I deleted it without opening.  I don't think we should be linking anything that downloads onto a user's hard drive. Too risky for viruses. — Maile  (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That is weird. For me, it opens same as any PDF would. SusunW (talk) 16:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * It is weird, because my browser settings are to open PDFs, not download them. I see this same document on the internet as a .docx download, but I'm not downloading it. — Maile (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you access this one without it downloading? SusunW (talk) 19:30, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope. It went straight to download.  And, yet, this opens as a PDF without downloading. And I think I just figured out the difference.  Note the end of the urls.  What I just linked has .pdf on the end, and what you linked does not. 19:42, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This is totally weird. They open the exact same on my computer. However, if you type "pdf" at the end, it still works for me???? SusunW (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we can toss that theory out the window. It still went directly to download. However, this is with using Firefox.  I just tried it on IE, and I got a message at the bottom of the page asking me if I wanted to open it, or download it.  I chose neither, since I'm a little unsure about this whole link.  But I think the automatic downloading is something in how Firefox relates to that link. — Maile  (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting this out and for your other additions. I think I've more or less finished work on the text. Let me know if you intend to work on it further. Maybe we should include more illustrations before going for GA?--Ipigott (talk) 09:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, Ian. I'll give it one more look. Seems like each time, I find a bit more clarification. ;) Duck was working on another photo I found from 1945 (see above). I think it is probably free to use, but wanted others more experienced with that to check. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that 1945 shot seems to be OK as "This work is in the public domain because it was published in the United States between 1923 and 1977 and without a copyright notice." I'll see if I can upload it.--Ipigott (talk) 15:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've checked it out. I can't download it from the 1945 page but I see it's the same image as the one published on the cover of her book. I don't know if it is in order to use that image as it is the same as the one published in a 1945 newspaper.--Ipigott (talk) 15:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I have expanded the lede, added links to the Garwula District and Grand Cape Mount County and made a few minor adjustments/corrections to the text. Please review my work. SusunW (talk) 15:57, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Thanks in particular for your work on the lead. There's only one thing that may require further research. I think I read somewhere that it was Tuchscherer who accidentally rediscovered her works on microfilm. He then approached Seton for assistance in editing. In the LoC video, I remember Seton saying her mother had predicted that some day a man would find the manuscript and have it published. But I'm sure there are other references.--Ipigott (talk) 16:43, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Now that you say that, I remember seeing that too. Hmmmmm. Lemme see what I can find. SusunW (talk) 16:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I've found it. The story of the manuscript's rediscovery is here. It actually looks as if it would be worthwhile including some of it in the article.--Ipigott (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I also happened to find this.--Ipigott (talk) 17:20, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That review is a spectacular find ! It brings "humanness" to the book, I think. Definitely should be incorporated. SusunW (talk) 17:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, to tell you the truth, I came across quite a few reviews (or snippets thereof) but I was also toying with the idea of writing an article on the book itself, where the reviews would have been more appropriate. Perhaps that's the best way to proceed. What do you think?--Ipigott (talk) 17:45, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we should have a link to the book itself, but I do think that the human aspects, i.e. violence, racism, and sexism should be briefly mentioned in the biography. Give me a minute or two and I'll add a bit for you to review. SusunW (talk) 17:51, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think it's discreet, but makes her more human. Fixed the manuscript find part too. Please feel free to make any changes you deem necessary. SusunW (talk) 18:50, 12 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, . I reworded it a bit as there is quite a long explanation of the hand injury in the introduction to the autobiography. I noticed that the URL had somehow disappeared from the sources and reintroduced it as the informative introduction is accessible on line in full. I have a feeling the M'bayo review, however touching it may seem, is based mainly on the introduction. Most of what he says can be found there.--Ipigott (talk) 08:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I wish I had access to her whole book. It would be fascinating reading no doubt. SusunW (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * $66 from Amazon.--Ipigott (talk) 14:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I now just have to figure out who I can send it to in the US who is likely to come calling soon. The duty on things from Amazon is astronomical. But that being said, I love the pictures. I think she's ready to be nominated. SusunW (talk) 14:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You seem to be good at handling the nomination process, so please go ahead. Perhaps our friend Dr. Blofeld will be interested in picking it up. In the meantime, I'll continue with the article on the book.--Ipigott (talk) 14:42, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Done! SusunW (talk) 14:53, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK
what are your hook ideas? I have a couple of QPQs done already. SusunW (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2016 (UTC) i
 * Thanks,, for handling the review so efficiently and adding some useful trimmings. Off to bed now but tomorrow I'll try to come up with suggestions for a hook. Well done! You have certainly contributed much to the success of the article.--Ipigott (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * We make a good team . (Besides which, I have another ... so I needed to get this one finished.) SusunW (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * How about "...that the black Liberian scholar and educator, Princess Fatima Massaquoi, wrote of her experiences in Nazi Germany and the US Southern States in a recently rediscovered autobiography?" If it's not too long, we could say "often difficult experiences". I'll leave it up to you. Let me know if you need any help with any of your other articles.--Ipigott (talk) 07:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Tweaked it a bit. Template:Did you know nominations/Fatima Massaquoi SusunW (talk) 18:27, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Birth year
I can not see that she could have been born in 1904. If she was born 1904 she would have come to Hamburg age 18. No regular school (and St Ansgar -not "Anschar"- was a private school within the regular system) would have taken her in at that age in a low class. Same for Helene-Lange-Schule when everybody else graduated around 18. I cannot open all of the book in google but i see nowwhere that a large age gap was anything of a problem, herself in a class of small kids. It would not have been possible for her to finish the Abitur (secondary school exit examen) in 1935 at age 31 (if born 1904) at a regular school like Helene-Lange-Schule. If born in 1912 she was already a bit old but still within the range.

Besides Smyke, Raymond J. (1990) writes "Fatima was born on 25 December, 1912" (Liberian Studies Journal,XV, 1 1990), page 48.

He gives some more details, eg. page 52 Fatima giving a lesson at age 15 in Vai class replacing her father who was traveling outside Hamburg - so she was 15 before 1929 (when the father left Hamburg) which does not work if she had been born in 1904. page 60 Smyke mentions that she was 51 years old in 1964. His essay seems well researched (even with some small mistakes I recognize when he writes about her German years - like misspelling of Ansgar, description of the Menschheitspartei...)

Another detail I have seen is the autobio of Hans Juergen Massaquoi (*1926) who remembers his aunt as a young women in her early Twenties visiting him and and his mother in their small flat which must have been in the years after 1933 maybe even a bit later. Moreover the article claims she graduated in medicine from university of Hamburg around 1937 (!) which is impossible with 1935 Abitur and only mentioned in the society page of that American newspaper but nowhere else. Kipala (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * since you asked this on my talk page, I responded there User_talk:SusunW] SusunW (talk) 20:11, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

usurping African names
The article says she «helped abolish the practice of usurping African names for Westernized versions», but this phrasing is not clear for me. Instead of rewriting more or less successfully, I’d sugggest an example or two (sourced!) would clarify what’s meant. Tuvalkin (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2023 (UTC)