Talk:Felix Sater/Archives/2017

Revert
Probably is perfectly okay to quote WaPo about the guy here on talk page. Somebody took it out & I just put it back in. Odd to "edit war" on a talk page. But this guy is bound to have weird things happen around him. Badiacrushed (talk) 01:47, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Trolls are out
(see https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-mafia-linked-figure-describes-association-with-trump/2016/05/17/cec6c2c6-16d3-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html Badiacrushed (talk) 02:27, 22 February 2017 (UTC) .....WaPo link above references following material :

"One former Bayrock employee alleged in a lawsuit that Sater once told him during a dispute to “shut up or risk being killed.” Another lawsuit filed in Arizona in 2007 alleged that Sater had threatened a local project partner named Ernest Mennes.

According to the lawsuit, Sater called Mennes in 2006 and threatened that his cousin “would electrically shock Mr. Mennes’ testicles, cut off Mr. Mennes’ legs, and leave Mr. Mennes dead in the trunk of his car” if Mennes revealed his criminal past."

"Lying media," no doubt.......

..Badiacrushed (talk) 20:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

new section from Benwitt
Hi, I can't figure out how to create a new section but here's a tip from NYMag: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/felix-sater-donald-trump-russia-investigation.html. Thx. User:Benwitt Aug 3 2017
 * Thanks, I hadn't seen this interview so I appreciate it. A lot of the info about his history is already in the article. Of course we can't include the stuff like as a "canny operator and a colorful bullshitter" but there may be quotes in there we can use.  —Мандичка YO 😜 09:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

NYT
The newspaper very succinctly and with great care describes the essence of Mr. Sater's notability apart from his association with Donald Trump thus:

"Mr. Sater — a former F.B.I. informant who is famous for having once smashed a martini glass stem into another man’s face — has maintained a relationship with Mr. Cohen [Trump's lawyer] over the years."

That's about it...Everybody who knows anything at all about Mr. Sater knows these are the two things about him apart from the Trump/Russia story that are of any general interest to people other than his mother....

Obviously then, it's reasonable as a matter of principle to include the material in the lead. This article has a history as a vanity puff piece apparently written by Sater acolytes, or conceivably by Sater himself.

But the repeated attempts to scrub this article are pretty pointless....(somebody below characterizes him as a "prominent real estate developer"...This seems to be unsourced and apparently wrong...I think he may have helped obtain certain financing on behalf of developers on occasion...But see article...I don't much care....) Badiacrushed (talk) 00:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I assume that you started this discussion because I removed your addition of the martini glass incident from the lede? That information is covered in the body of the article. Please read WP:BLP for guidelines on how Wikipedia editors should write articles about living people. World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 02:44, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Merely referring to a guideline isn't justification. It appears the "BLP" guideline in essence has three elements: NPOV, verifiability and NOR... Apparently you feel (mistakenly) the contribution you've removed (twice?) violates these elements?


 * In my view it's well-established via virtually any and all sources, that Sater is notable SOLELY for his association with Trump in combination with his criminal background and Russian connections. Generically, the reasons a subject is notable should be the focus of a lead.


 * You haven't really bothered to make a case to the contrary, but perhaps you should try.


 * I'm interested in the article you created recently on Felix Sater's wife, Viki Sater, and in the article you've more-or-less proposed on her company's product "Viki's Granola."


 * To me, that suggests you should perhaps try to distance yourself more on Wikipedia from the general subject of Sater.
 * Badiacrushed (talk) 19:28, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Your implication that I am somehow connected to Felix or Viktoria Sater is misplaced. I am not (nor am I a paid editor in any capacity). The information about Felix Sater's conviction is in the body of the article. There's a section heading in bold type called "Criminal convictions and federal cooperation" so it would be hard for anyone to miss it. Putting it in the lede gives it undue emphasis. Did you read WP:BLP or just look at the headings? World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 20:08, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Yah....for example the Wikipedia article on Abraham Lincoln, says in its third sentence that he (basically) "freed the slaves." That's what he's notable for. That's what goes in a lead....So......Sater didn't free any slaves, but he's notable... for being a criminal with ties to...and ties to......We can leave it to readers' imagination who might be in the editing mix for this article.....

Badiacrushed (talk) 00:58, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we've found some things we can both agree on. Felix Sater didn't free any slaves and we can leave the rest of this discussion to people's imaginations. I'm sure there will be more to say about Sater in the future so we will find out what his lasting legacy becomes. World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 19:19, 30 September 2017 (UTC

One could consider New Yorker magazine's current mention of Sater as a good model. Is a passing reference to him as real estate developer & then add two sentences about what is deemed most significant about his background: i.e., his two convictions. Maybe in Russia, the significance of The New Yorker is lost. But it's editorial judgment is generally superior to Wilipedia. --baidacrushed