Talk:Fenerbahçe S.K./Archive 1

Interesting
The founder of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was a definitive Fenerbahce supporter.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ataturk+fenerbahce

http://experts.about.com/e/f/fe/Fenerbah%C3%A7e_SK.htm

http://www.lycos.com/info/mustafa-kemal-ataturk.html

http://www.albionroad.com/clubs_details.aspx?id=333

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenerbah%C3%A7e_Spor_Kul%C3%BCb%C3%BC

Atatürk and Fenerbahçe Edits
I have made the following edits to the 'Atatürk and Fenerbahçe' paragraph

- "Atatürk was a supporter of Fenerbahçe" to "Atatürk was allegedly a supporter of Fenerbahçe". This is because numerous sources support the claim, but none are sufficient to deem it a fact.

- I removed a very direct quote with no real evidence, in fact the remaining quote too is questionable (as is the whole section) -confirmed only with a flimsy website source that is obviously bias towards accrediting this great honour to Fenerbahçe.

-http://www.fenerbahce.org/eng/kurumsaldetay.asp?ContentID=10

Atatürk and Fenerbahçe

The founder of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was a Fenerbahce supporter. On the 10th of August, after a 3-3 draw against Galatasaray in the Gazi Cup Ataturk had three Galatasaray and 2 Fenerbahce supporters next to him, where he was quoted: "We are three on three here, because I’m a Fenerbahce supporter too".

When the club’s building at Kusdili burnt down, the first donation for a new building came from our great leader Ataturk.

Ataturk has also visited the club and has signed the book of honour where we wrote the following:

"I was informed of Fenerbahce Club’s admirable activities and had made it a duty of mine to visit and congratulate the club. That visit has fallen on this day and I hereby record my tribute and congratulations."

3.5.1918

ARMY COMMANDER Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Lighthouse
I'm not sure if that Greek word means lighthouse, but one of Fenerbahçe's derivaties is the lighthouse. The name comes from a famous hill in Turkey that was covered with daffodils, and had a lighthouse at the end.

Its Silly
Some people damaged the achievements part by adding 7 European Champions' League titles to Fenerbahce. Our team would win that cup just like others but we don't have European Cup for now. I corrected the mistake. With respect,Deliogul 20:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Also stop adding the B36 match to the best european matches. There is a great difference between B36 and Fenerbahçe SK so beating B36 can't be an achievement for Fenerbahçe. With respect,20:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Marcio Nobre
Marcio Nobre was not transferred to Besiktas from Fenerbahce. His loan deal from Cruzeiro was extended, and after Fenerbahce lost out on the 2005-06 season, his loan was terminated. Besiktas bought him for 2 million Euros from Cruzeiro. Please do not changed it back to Fenerbahce. Can 18:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Edmar Gees De Souza
Edmar is not a fake player. He was bought by Fener when Zico came in and was immiedately loaned out to Bursaspor because of the foreigner restrictions. See http://www.fenerbahce.org/detay.asp?ContentID=4261 &mdash;Canbek - 张 - Esen 02:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes this player is really exists. With respect,Deliogul 20:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Recep Biler

 * Yes, Recep should be on loan at somewhere I don't know but of course we have to add him to the squad part. With respect, Deliogul 10:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If he's on loan to another team, he shouldn't be in the squad section, but rather list him as loaned out. &mdash;Canbek - 张 - Esen 16:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok but the problem is we don't know where he went on loan. With respect, Deliogul 17:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

UEFA-5 STAR stadia
Ya arkadaslar, lutfen bana Stadimizin UEFA 5-yildizli stadium kategorisinde olduguna dair bir kanit gonderir misiniz? Buna cok ihtiyacim var. user:ltimur


 * Kardeş, hem kendi talk page'imde hem de konunun talk page'inde birkaç şey yazdım okursan sevinirim. Şu an Vatan gazetesinin arşivinde bir haber buldum. Haberin tamamına erişilemiyor, çok eski diye silmişler galiba. Ama şöyleki; "5 yıldızlı Saraçoğlu Nyon ' da bir müjdeli haber de Şükrü Saraçoğlu Stadı ' na çıktı . UEFA Teftiş Komitesi üyelerinin 30 Eylül ' de İstanbul ' a gelerek ...". Sanırım bu yeterli bir kanıt. Saygılarımla, Deliogul 09:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Current revision

 * The 100 year gold kit is not the away kit.
 * Do not list a reserve or youth team squad, as agreed in WikiProject Football - CanbekEsen 15:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Éder Aleixo de Assis
Éder Aleixo de Assis was not played for Fenerbahce. He played for Malatyaspor in Turkey and went back to Brazil in 1-2 months. He never signed for Fenerbahce. I'm editing it so please do not write him again in the famous players.

Arkadaşım o Eder bu eder değil. Nasıl Türkiyede bir sürü Mehmet var bu da öyle. Anladığım kadarıyla yaşın çok genç bu futbolcu bizim zamanımızda 1989 yılında fenerbahçede oynadı araştırırsan bulursun lütfen bu ismi kaldırma.

Mehmet ile ne alakası var bunun. Eder Alexio de Assis diye adamın ismi yazıyor. 89 şampiyonluğunu görmüş biri olarak bana bu adamın fenerbahcede oynadıgına dair herhangi bir kaynak gösterirsen sevineceğim. yaşın benden yaşlı olabilir ama hafızanın benim kadar kuvvetli olmadığı kesin. çünkü bu adam ne 88/89 kadrosunda ne de 89/90 kadrosunda resmi verilerde yer almıyor. lakin ben sana internetten şöyle birşey gönderebilirim http://www.malatyahaber.com/haberler/haber.asp?a=1655&z=6. ya da http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=aleixo+de+assis+ederScragnoth 11:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

ha bu arada eklemeyi unutmusum. bu eder o eder degil ise diger ederin tam ismini yazarsan sevinirim. bu eder malatyasporda oynadi cunku. hem malatyali hem de fenerbahceli biri olarak soyluyorum bunu :)


 * Bu eder fenerbahçeli eder lütfen değiştirmeyin

Kaynaklar burada; http://www.papodebola.com.br/vidadecraque/20060815.htm

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2006/copa/todos_os_brasileiros-1982.shtml

http://www.brasilienportal.ch/index.cfm?nav=12,817,819,830,975

http://www2.uol.com.br/cbf/memoria/craques_e_f.pdf --Profesor 16:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

öncelikle şunları vereyim bi güzel

http://futbol.turksportal.net/makale/futbol/298/

http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=4260

http://arsiv.zaman.com.tr/2001/08/13/yazarlar/MahmutSerkanAKCAN.htm

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-75925.html

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=malatyaspor+un+3+brezilyalisi

http://www.turkfutbolu.net/fenerbahce/fbyabanci.html

her ne kadar internetin sağlam bir kaynak olduğuna inanmasamda gönderdiğim linkler yabancı kaynaklı değil gördüğün üzere. ve ilk 3'ü makale olduğu için gerçekçiliğini pek tartışmaya gerek yok. türkiyede hangi futbolcunun nerede oynadığını brezilyalılardan daha iyi bildiğimiz şüphe edilmeyecek bir gerçek. gönderdiğin ilk linkte "eder'in fenerbahce'ye gideceği söylendi" yazıyor. diğer linklerin hepsinde ise adamın kariyerini tek bir kaynaktan aldıkları belli ve bu kaynak mis gibi yanlış. bunun yanlışını da sana ansiklopedi kaynaklı kanıtlayayayım. Yapı Kredi Yayınları'nın çıkardığı Altan Tanrıkulu'nun hazırladığı "Efsaneleriyle, Kahramanlarıyla, Rakamlarla Fenerbahçe Tarihi" ansiklopedisinde yaptığım araştırmada 86-90 yılları arasında (bilerek geniş tuttum) eder aleixo de assis isminde bir oyuncu yer almadığı gibi eder isminde bir futbolcu da bu sezonlardaki kadromuzda yer almıyor. Daha ilginci bu ansiklopedinin arkasındaki Dizin biçiminde yapılmış "1. Ligde Top Oynamış Futbolcular" kısımında, Türkiye 1. Liginin Kurulumunda bu tarihe kadar Fenerbahce'de Eder isminde oynamış bir futbolcu da yer almıyor. Dediğim gibi, istersen Yapı Kredi Yayınlarının çıkardığı bu ansiklopediden kadrolarımıza ve sadece bir kere de olsa forma giymiş futbolculara ulaşabilirsin. Eder'in Fenerbahçe'de oynadığına dahir herhangi bir türk kaynak ve ansiklopedi var ise lütfen bunu bana göster. çünkü bu adamın fenerbahçe'de oynamadığını tüm türkiye biliyor. Brezilayalılar muhtemelen transfer döneminde Fenerbahçe ismi geçince (verdiğin ilk link bu) Türkiye'ye gelince fenerbahçe'de oynadığını düşündü, zaten bildiğim kadarıyla malatya'da iki maça çıktı kendisi.

Bu ismi tekrardan siliyorum. Aksini internet kaynaklı başka yabancı sitelerle kanıtlamaya çalışma çünkü kendi lig tarihimizi bizden iyi biliyor değiller. Bana bu adamın Fenerbahçe'de oynadığına dair bir ansiklopedi bilgisi yada türkçe makale verirsen yada bir Fenerbahçe yayını söylersen sevineceğim. Tekrardan yineliyorum bu adam Fenerbahçe'de değil Malatyaspor'da iki maç oynamıştır. Fenerbahçe ile hiçbir alakası yoktur. Scragnoth 12:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Verdiğin sitelerin hepsi yetersiz birkere ekşisözlük kaynak olarak kullanılamaz çünkü bunun yazarları vikideki gibi sen bendir. İkincisi Türk futbolunda tüm yabancılar mevcut değil. Gazete siteleri ise bu bilgileri başka sitelere bakarak kullanır. Eğer bir yerde yanlış bir bilgi varsa buna kaynak gösterilmiş olabilir. Ayrıca brezilyalı bir futbolcunun nerede oynadığını brezilyalılardan daha iyi bilemezsin. Tıpkı Bizim Nihat Emre gibi futbolcuların nerede oynadığını bildiğimiz gibi. Sağlam kaynaklar verene kadar bu bilgiyi kaldırma. 2005 yılından beri bu bilgi böyle.


 * gecmis gitmis ama suna cevap vermeden edemiyecegim. kaynaklarin eksisozluk disindakilerin dogrulugunu hangi yetkili merci oluyorsun da dogru olmadigini iddia ediyorsun? ben sana git fenerbahce ansiklopedisine bak diyorum sen bana dandik bir siteden bahsediyorsun. turk futbolunda tum yabancilar mevcut degil gibi akilalmaz aptal bir lafi da nasil etmissin anlayamadim. gazete gibi bir kurum, senin gibi google'a girip arastirma yapmaz gider kendi arsivlerine bakar. acaba turkiyede kac insan, milli takimda ve turkiyede iki buyuk klupte oynamis tolunay kafkasin yurtdisinda hangi takimlarda oynadigini biliyor? hayatimda gordugum en salakca yazilmis savunma diyorum buna. bana ederin fenerbahce'de hangi maca ciktigini ve bu adamin fenerbahce formali bi fotografini gonder dedigimde apisip kaliyorsan, 89dan beri malatyada oynadigi bilinen bu adamin fenerbahcede oynadigini iddia etme. ? 85.104.45.100 14:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm.., you say he played for Malatyaspor, while Wikipedia says Fenerbahce, and this - http://www.futebolthebrazilianwayoflife.com/atleticomineiro_leg_eder.shtml (First in Google search results) says he played for Galatasaray. Does anyone really know where he played? CanbekEsen 23:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not saying he played for Fenerbahçe, someone who doesn't know about the history of the club that he is supporting is editing this article every time like a stupid. Internet based sources are not reliable sources, while two of my links are newspaper articles of Turkish Newspapers. And all of my links are Turkish based sources which is more reliable about the Turkish Football League than any other countries website. Also I have included that there is no player called Eder played in 1988-89 squads of Fenerbahce and no player called Eder played in Fenerbahce's history depending on the encyclopedia called "Fenerbahce History - Legends, Heroes, Numbers" which is written by the famous Fenerbahce reporter Altan Tanrıkulu. All the links that I put in here is prove that he was played in Malatyaspor in Turkey with his two friends from Brazilian National Team, Carlos Roberto Gallo and Serginho Chulapa. I am repeating, PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS ARTICLE LIKE AS HE PLAYED IN FENERBAHCE. THERE IS NO PLAYER CALLED EDER IN FENERBAHCE HISTORY. Scragnoth 14:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * eder played for fenerbahçe.'''

http://www.papodebola.com.br/vidadecraque/20060815.htm

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2006/copa/todos_os_brasileiros-1982.shtml

http://www.brasilienportal.ch/index.cfm?nav=12,817,819,830,975

http://www2.uol.com.br/cbf/memoria/craques_e_f.pdf

http://miltonneves.uol.com.br/qfl/index.asp?id_qfl=618

http://www.contrapie.com/vercronicas.asp?ID=1868&idioma=3

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2006/copa/todos_os_brasileiros-1982.shtml

http://www.sambafoot.com/pt/jogadores/375_Eder.html

-- do you like to behave like a kid? As I said before, all of your sources are Brazilian based and they know the team eder played as wrong. In Non of Turkish based sources, you can't reach that eder played in Fenerbahce but you can hardly found out that he played in Malatyaspor. It is hardly because he just played one or two games and go back to Brazil. Don't edit this article like he played in Fenerbahce. Non of the Fenerbahce or Turkish based sources including encyclopedia's proving your nonsense websites.

http://futbol.turksportal.net/makale/futbol/298/

http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=4260

http://arsiv.zaman.com.tr/2001/08/13/yazarlar/MahmutSerkanAKCAN.htm

These are articles written by Turkish football writers that Eder Aleixo de Assis played in Malatyaspor. Non of the Fenerbahce sources showing that eder played in Fenerbahce.

http://www.turkfutbolu.net/fenerbahce/fbyabanci.html

And these are the foreign players that played in Fenerbahce history. This website is prepared by a Fenerbahce Fan and containing most of Fenerbahce history. I will edit this article always if someone put his name again in notable players. There is no Fenerbahce fan know about the player called Eder just the lamer editing this article frequently. Scragnoth 21:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

"Please Brazil site source add." hayran olmamak elde degil bu ingilizceye..

sabin ilie
sabin ilie herhangi bir takımın notable player'ı olarak geçiyorsa, bir fenerbahçeli olarak ben o klübün vay haline derim. ne vermiş ki bu adam bu kulübe de notable player olmuş?? bütün yabancıları yazcaz diye bokunu çıkarmışsınız ünlü oyuncuların, bi de demir hotic yazın tam olsun. Scragnoth 16:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

general harrington cup
Fenerbahce won General Harrington Cup in 1923, I add it but someone is editing article and deleting it. I will add again and please do not delete.

http://www.fenerbahce.org/kurumsaldetay.asp?ContentID=3561

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/345808.asp

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Harrington_Kupası

Scragnoth 13:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Current Roster Format
I really like this format for listing the current players. It doesn't seem to be the standard wiki format though - any way we can change the standard? (Nice to have players' year joined and former team, so that transfer histories are a bit clearer (eg, Bayern got how many players in 2007? Oh, 6, ok)). Jairuscobb 19:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Missing player: Stephen Appiah, number four, midfielder of Ghana
I can't see Stephen Appiah in the Fenerbache squad. Is he not a player of this club? I believe he is actually. Can someone sort this thing out. Remove this after this is checked... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.218.230 (talk) 23:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

1- VOLKAN D. 2- GÖKHAN G. 3- LUGANO 4- R. CARVALHO 5- A. SANTOS 6- EMRE B. 7- M.STOCH 8- T. MOTTA 9- A. GYAN 10- I. DİA 11- ÖZER H. 9-  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.77.114.200 (talk) 11:29, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How do you pronounce that club's name?- SCB &#39;92 10:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ç in Turkish is pronounced as tch in English. However, it would be nice if someone could add the IPA pronounciation of the word in the intro.. Baristarim 20:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I can tell you how to pronounce the last part (bahçe, which also means garden btw) -> Bach (the composer) put together with Che (the revolutionary), Bach-Che! I don't know how to use IPA sorry :) 81.215.13.145 09:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Bahçe means garden or park and Fener can mean lighthouse or lamp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rokkafellah (talk • contribs) 17:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Tags on Atatürk and Fenerbahçe section
"This article or section may contain inappropriate or misinterpreted citations which do not verify the text."

Misinterpreted? Do not verify the text? The link and section are the same text. This makes no sense. It seems like another anti-Fenerbahçe fan is trying to mess around again. CanbekEsen 19:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The source that was provided is not reliable. There's no single evidence about Ataturk being a Fenerbahce fan apart from Fenerbahce's typical bla bla. Don't remove the tags.--BlueEyedCat 00:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Fenerbahçe's typical bla bla? This is from an official website, I'd highly doubt that the officials of such a high organization would try to release false stories. This just seems like another anti fan of the club that is trying to attack the article because they cannot accept something. CanbekEsen 00:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You can't put forward Fenerbahce's official web site as a reference to your claims. It's non sense and completely funny. Don't remove the tags, this is turning into real vandalism.--BlueEyedCat 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you seen this?. Please look into this as it has already been resolved instead of sounding ignorant. Even the Turkish version of Wikipedia has this. CanbekEsen 20:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Turkish wikipedia no longer has it. I fixed. NPOV. Learn what that means. How can that be an information source, searching google for words "Fenerbahçe" and "Atatürk" :)))) You are really funny :))) Now I am going to type my name and "Atatürk" to google and say that he was my friend. LOL 88.245.73.109 21:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you realize that the section was sourced from a reliable source? Looking at the history, I take to believe you were the one who added that section. Do you realize that you added it without any sources? A lot of negative things are posted on Wikipedia pages everyday, and you had not sourced it, which leads to suspect that rival fans may be trying to "attack" the club page. If you peek at the history, there has been several issues that we've been trying to solve. Nobody here is "claiming" he was supporter, we are just using the bare-bone information provided by the website that there was a possibility that he may have been a supporter of the club. I myself do not believe that he was a total supporter, considering football wasn't very big back then, but as I've said before, what you posted was suspect as negative info and possibly vandalism. Now that it seems you have sourced, it may stay. It does need a bit re-wording though. Also, I do suggest you refrain from personal attacks. Thank you, CanbekEsen 22:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You could use Fact tag instead of removing. When there is only Fenerbahçe offical sites opinion left, it becomes propaganda. Neyse geçti artık önemli değil :)..... Thank you, 88.245.73.109 23:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Article must mention sth about recent fraud claims (chicanery, illegal incentive premium) investigated by TFF
Article must mention sth about recent fraud claims (chicanery, illegal incentive premium) investigated by TFF.--BlueEyedCat 18:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What Wikipedia is not. CanbekEsen 20:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Just look at Juventus article. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure article must mention about fraud claims.--BlueEyedCat 20:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Look If I would say that Bush won the elections by the help of the mafia and show some "sources" to support my claim, how important and worth discussing it would be? The man who made the fraud claim is an ordinary restaurant manager. Some argues that he has serious mental and economic problems which possibly let him to make such claims. Do we really have to mention a restaurant managers claims here just because he made his show on a national tv channel? Saygılarımla, Deliogul 21:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * See, that's the thing. These are "claims", not actual facts. If you would look at the link I had posted, you'd see that what I am talking about is in that link. CanbekEsen 22:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So you put ordinary people's claim of Ataturk being a Fenerbahce fan into Wikipedia, but you're against of putting fraud claims. I guess debate is over. Just choose one of them, either remove both Ataturk claims or put both of them.--BlueEyedCat 20:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe other Fenerbaçe fans will get angry to me but personally I don't care if Mustafa Kemal Pasha was a fan or not and actually I think he wasn't supporting any clubs but he was proud of Fenerbahçe because of the team's achievements and heroic helps to the Independence War. On the other hand, a restaurant manager is an ordinary guy but people who claim that Mustafa Kemal Pasha was a fan of Fenerbahçe were not ordinary people. Saygılarımla, Deliogul 20:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Blue eyed friend if you want to open a fraud section, you first have to go to galatasaray discussion page to open the ankaragucu-galatasaray (0-8) fraud game topic and 2006 joint venture between galatasaray and besiktas. Thus in this manner you are threatening the editor to remove the Ataturk article and add a fraud article. This is simply fanatism which has no place in this online information source. You can satisfy your desires in some other platforms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.171.98.69 (talk) 09:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Super League
I nominated the article of Turkish Super League to be the next article to be upgraded by the Wikipedia community. Please go to this page and vote for our league. We need at least 3 votes to win!.Haydi Beyler, Deliogul 16:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sovyetler Birliği milli takımının article'ına yenildik bu hafta ama bir dahaki hafta için şansımız devam ediyor.Yukardaki linke tıklayıp bir oy atın da Süper Lig'i featured article yapalım. Deliogul 11:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Zaferrr!
Turkcell Super League article is choosen as the football collaboration of the week! Please help expanding the article. Oy atanlara büyük teşekkür. Deliogul 14:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Colours
In the turkish wikipedia the hom,e and away colours are exactly the OPPOSITE. Now which are the real ones??? --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi  11:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Ataturk
Well, I really couldn't give two hoots either way about which club he was supporting. Particularly since back when he lived all the three major clubs were nothing more than amateurish weekend gatherings. It was only after the WW2 that football became something close to professional, both in Europe and Turkey. However, if there is going to be a claim it should be clearly stated who is making the claim. Baristarim 01:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the last edit about Atatürk section made it more objective. Please don't revert those claims. Deliogul 20:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no reliable source referenced for this moderately contentious section, so I have removed it completely. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 09:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Notable players
I've seen a lot of players added to the "Notable players" section. Now, this section is supposed to include players who have made a significant impact at the club. For example, some of the Brazilian players. Fabiano Lima was loaned to us for a season and he made little to no impact. Sergio Ricardo spent half a season with us and then was loaned out to a variety of clubs. Simao played one season for us. These should be moved to a page like List of foreign footballers in Turkey. CAN 20:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree! By the way, Nobre is shown as Brazilian, but Aurelio is shown as Turkish, correction needed.SONSAVASCI 12:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well then, I'll try to start it tonight and see how it goes. Also, I think Nobre's first nationality is still Brazilian, since he hasn't been called up to Turkey. CAN 14:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I won't edit the article, it is not that important, however I must say this. Someone born in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, from a Brazilian Mother and a Brazilian Father, grow up in Brazil and lived as a Brazilian for first 30 years of his life, must have the first nationality as Brazilian. Even 1 year hasn't past after his new Turkish citizenship, we can't set his first nationality as Turkish just because he kicked ball in our national team.


 * I also noticed that the article of Marco Aurelio is moved to Mehmet Aurelio in wikipedia, I strongly disagree with that too. SONSAVASCI 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Mehmet is Turkish, just like Deco is Portugese. CAN 21:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC) Deco just accessed his heritage, he's Brazillian, guess who colonized Brazil? Portugal. He's white, so his parents were probably Europeans and I don't see why he can't play for a country he has citizenship for.
 * Deco & Aurelio have nothing in common. Didn't you understand any single sentence above? Why don't you just confess that you are bloody fenerbahce fan, and you like to change truths towards your point of view. SONSAVASCI 22:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

What is your problem man? Don't you understand anything I say? Do you even understand what you're saying? Deco also was born and raised in Brazil and did not play for Portugal until he was 24, 6 years after he first started playing in Portugal. Aurelio did the same thing, so why should Aurelio be shown as a Brazilian when his new nationality is Turkish?

And what is wrong with is name? This is what he chose to be called and is being called now. He is Turkish, don't you understand? CAN 01:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Aurelio, Nobre and others. They became Turkish, because their teams want to transfer more non-turkish players. Just like after R.Carlos got the spanish passport, Real Madrid trasfered Robinho. Thats all. SONSAVASCI 10:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

If Aurelio didn't want to be Turkish he would've denied the call-up... CAN 11:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Denying national team is forbidden by law in Turkey. Anyone interested in Turkish football knows that. Unsuprisingly, you don't. SONSAVASCI 18:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Where is this now? Besides, haven't you read this? http://www.fenerbahce.org.tr/detay.asp?ContentID=4385 CAN 18:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Italian?!
Lugano and Edu are Italian... Hımmm are you sure? Deliogul 20:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * has gone around saying a bunch of players have dual nationality, yet there are no sources to prove this (see Jaba). CAN 20:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking at it now, I think all these things with players holding dual-nationality for other countries isn't really notable, considering Turkey's foreign policy. I'm going to remove them now. CAN 02:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess Jaba even said that he would be proud of playing for the Turkey national football team but it is still irrelevant to our business. I didn't hear anything about Italian citizenships of Edu and Lugano :) Deliogul 15:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * transfermarkt.de has them there. They both hold Italian citizenship, but it's really irrelevant to the article.

Fair use rationale for Image:Fenerbahce hqfl logo.png
Image:Fenerbahce hqfl logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Turkcell Super League logo.jpg
Image:Turkcell Super League logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

propaganda and disinformation
Latest revert is about the content of second paragraph. However as long as this page exists, some people will always try to add this kind of "facts" all around the page. (which I call propaganda & disinformation)

Firstly, I respect your efforts on this page. But you should check Ownership_of_articles which says;

''Maybe you really are an expert or you just care about the topic a lot. But if this watchfulness crosses a certain line, then you are overdoing it.

You cannot stop everyone in the world from editing "your" stuff, once you have posted it to Wikipedia. As each edit page clearly states: If you don't want your material to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. ''

So please don't post your stuff here, create a blog and write there how great and mighty Fenerbahce is. Posting here things like "FB is the most successful Turkish club of all time" it is totally crap.

Also, the official web page of the Club is NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE. Copy/Pasting or referencing from that page does not make the content appropriate, but makes it sided and unfair. How can we talk about neutral point of view, if we use exact words that Club uses for its propaganda to its supporters?

By the way Aziz Yıldırım is not chairmen for 8 years, he came in 1998 February so it is nine and a half. Also lets not talk about success in finance and fool ourselves, unless fener gets into this list.

Lastly, there is a history section so lets not flood readers in introduction with details like Istanbul Leauge or womans basketball team. Maybe there can only be a metion about 17th title. (which should also state that galatasaray has 16, otherwise it is pointless) But this -of course- doesn't make fener most successful team of all time. To be most successful of all time, there are other cups needed to be won like uefa cup, super cup, turkish cups, etc.

So lets keep the intorduction clean, neutral and brief. Just like other sections. SONSAVASCI 11:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, I'm not writing how great Fenerbahce is. Look at all these articles like Real Madrid and Liverpool F.C.. They also state how those clubs are the most successful clubs in their country or continent. This isn't point-of-view, this is fact. Fenerbahce has won more total cups than Galatasaray, Besiktas, Trabzonspor, and every other club in Turkey. This article is NOT just about the football branch, but also their other branches.


 * I'm not protecting the section because I wrote it, but instead because it is notable and factual.


 * We are not using "exact words" from the official website. If you would see in the references, I've paraphrased and reworded almost everything in the article, nothing being copy-pasted. Also, how is the official site not a reliable source? Besides, they are the OFFICIAL site. Just because -you- can't accept the facts doesn't mean its propaganda.


 * You do realise that the list is for football clubs, right? Is Fenerbahce a football club? No, they are a sports club with many branches. Look at this first before claiming Fenerbahce are not the richest club in Turkey.


 * The lead is neutral. It is clean. Leads are not supposed to be brief. A lead should have an overview of every major section in the article. I created the section in the lead to have an overview on Fenerbahce's "history" by stating how successful they are, then going to present times and stating how successful they have been lately. I also included the facts of how the mens and womens basketball teams have been successful of late, thus overviewing the basketball section that is also in this article. You remember Fenerbahce is not just a football club, right?


 * Just because Fenerbahce haven't won an UEFA Cup does not make them less successful than Galatasaray. Do you see Fenerbahçe_S.K.? Do you see how many President Cup, Chancellor Cup, and Istanbul League championships they've won? And that's just for the football branch, so you should take a gander at Fenerbahçe_S.K. basketball ones too. So, 86 cups from the football branch, plus 31 from the basketball branch (and I'm not even counting the Ulkerspor ones), and that comes to 117 titles. This total, of course, does not include cups won from the volleyball, rowing, boxing, sailing, athletics, swimming and table tennis branches.


 * I'm not one for arguments over what should be and what should not be in an article, especially when the information is notable and factual. Thanks! CAN 16:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I have nothing new to add my first comments, beside an example of the things that you call facts and I call "propaganda":

Fenerbahce proudly announces, they won 42 cups this season. (2006/2007) They state that, this season was a great season and they won almost every cup, etc. http://www.haber7.com/haber.php?haber_id=247955 However another Turkish club, Beşiktaş says that they have won 45 cups in this season! And they are even calling the fans to visit club museum to see the cups! http://spor.tnn.net/haber_detay.asp?ID=1760401&cat=SPO

Here are your facts. Which team is more succesful last year? We have the same rivalry for History as well. Galatasaray and Fenerbahce claims that they have over 3000 cups. And dont compare Turkish football with spain and england, we even don't had a professional league before 1960. SONSAVASCI 16:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Last year? Hmm, let's see...

Fenerbahçe are the most successful Turkish club of all time, amassing 125 titles in their one hundred year history. Fenerbahçe also hold the record of most Turkish First Football League titles won, seventeen, and most Istanbul Football League titles, winning sixteen.


 * Do you see anywhere in there that says anything about Fenerbahçe being the most successful club last season? There are no ludocris claims that Fenerbahçe have won over 3000 cups. These are not claims, look at history and you'll see how many cups Fenerbahçe have won. CAN 17:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The comparison of last year, is an example of how teams exaggerate their achievements to impress their fans. If you read the articles from the links I've posted, you'll see that the so called "40" cups are mostly won by kids in the clubs' summer schools. In this way, even if the club wasnt successfull in important competitions, they motivate their fans with 40 cups.

Disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.

Similar things are going on here. You are saying that Fener has the most Istanbul Football Titles which are from the amateur era of turkish football, from a defunct competition. But you are not saying a word about the Turkish Cup, which is a professional tournament and the winner club has the right to represent Turkey in european competitions since 1950's. Or, how can european progress can be forgotten, when talking about the success of a club. These are examples of discrediting conflicting information, explained above.

Fenerbahçe are NOT the most successful Turkish club of all time. This is very simple to understand. There can't be a discussion about this.

Most successfull club is not Fenerbahce, and even if Fenerbahce won the UEFA cup next year (2008), most successful club STILL won't be Fener, because Galata already did it.

And I sincerely believe that anyone other than fenerbahce fans, thinks like this.

However, from a neutal point of view, there is no "most successfull club" in Turkey. One of the 3 clubs, sometimes comes forward and does some favourable achivements, and sometimes fails.

The usage of the statement "most successful" is a method of marketing. It is used for drawing attention, and to increase the number of supporters. It is a strategy, used by club chairman and managers, just like they use Mustafa Kemal. And about the OFFICIAL sources, it is still propaganda and lie, even if you are dying to believe it or not.

And by the way, how can fenerbahce museum can be the firts club museum if it was opeened in 2005. Wasnt there a museum before 2005? Thanks! SONSAVASCI 20:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes but you see, I'm not exaggerating here. These are the exact numbers and years that Fenerbahçe won the trophies. I do not mention the Turkish Cup due to the fact that Fenerbahçe have won it only four times, the last in the 80's. There used to be a section on their plight in Europe - - but I removed it considering no other featured club articles such as Chelsea F.C. had a section detailing their best European matches. You don't seem to understand when I say Fenerbahçe are more than a football club. Okay, say we count the professional competitions only professional competitions from 1959 on. Fenerbahçe's football branch would then have 50 cups (Super League, Turkish Cup, Balkans Cup, Ataturk Cup, Chancellor Cup, TSYD Cup, Fleet Cup, and Spor-Toto Cup). Add their basketball achievements, 31, so that amounts to 81 cups from just two of their branches. This total is still more than Galatasaray's 49 football branch cups (Super League, Turkish Cup, UEFA Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Chancellor Cup, TSYD Cup). Add four league titles from the basketball branch, and that brings the total to 53. Please, enlighten me with information stating Galatasaray have won more trophies than Fenerbahçe, with which cups and how many times of course. As for the UEFA Cup and UEFA Super Cup, those are two cups; &mdash; 2 &mdash; cups.


 * According to the Dutch version of the article, they were the first club in Turkey with an official museum.


 * I've about giving caring about putting that section back in. However, I'd like for you to understand my initial intentions, in that I had meant for it to show for all professional branches of the club that Fenerbahçe was in fact, the most successful club in Turkey, not team.


 * This message probably got out-of-hand, and I apologize for that, but as I've said time and time again, looking at history, Fenerbahçe's total amount of cups or more than all the clubs. I'll leave this be, but I'd still like to hear a few more opinions so we can get a natural consesus. Meanwhile, I'll try to expand the article further. Thank you. CAN 20:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to defend Galatasaray, nor research for the titles, but in one of the old Galatasaray's publications, they dealed about this topic, and claim that Gala has the more cup than others. You are free to believe it or not, of course.

I didn't know if Fenerbahce had 31 basketball titles and if this is more than Galatasaray or not, but I believe that Efes Pilsen is far more successful than Fener and Gala. It's same for Eczacıbaşı, in volleyball. I am not going to make a comment about Football branch however, because you believe that 1 UEFA Cup's value is equal to 1 TSYD cup. LOL... Why should Galatasaray be more successful, when they couldn't do a thing about the Champions League and put into the UEFA Cup and then won it. Fenerbahçe gets into the Champions League and they immediatly face teams like Iternazionale and PSV Eindhoven. Galatasaray has had two more years that Fenerbahçe to amass more cups,but still Fenerbahçe has won with Galatasaray everytime lately. We'll see how it goes this season with the precious addtion of Lincoln.Rokkafellah 21:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC) Anyway... Lets face it one more time: Fenerbahce is NOT most successful, team OR club. It is a lie, it is propaganda, it is disinformation. Fenerbahce is one of the successful clubs in Turkey, not the most.

I know that there is no way to persuade a fan. Every fan wants to believe that his club is the best. But truths are not like that.

And here is an interesting link about the first museum. It has some comments about total amount of cups too! SONSAVASCI 22:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I'm not going to argue with ignoramaces. CAN 01:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well that was rude. I tried my best, but there is no reason for me to argue with an impolite 15-year-old kid, who doesn't even live in Turkey, especially about Fenerbahce. Someday, you'll realize that things are different here in Istanbul, then how they look like from US, John. SONSAVASCI 10:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm Turkish and I live in North America and I agree with the Istanbul-originating guy, Fenerbahçe is not just a football team it's a club with many branches for many sports. Just because Galatasaray has won a UEFA Cup or Super Cup doesn't mean that the're better or more succesful. I'm a real Fenerbahçe fan and all I've seen of Galatasaray fans is they like Galatasaray when they win, but when they start losing they turn to Fenerbahçe for comfort.Rokkafellah 21:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've tried to comprimise with you, but you just keep jabbing away. You may see how you started this whole argument, and once I tried to finish it, you kept adding fuel to the fire, enough after I had apologized. CAN 19:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * We can say that Fenerbahçe is the most successful club in 2000s or Fenerbahçe took the lead after Galatasaray's success in Europe in 2000 because it is so clear that Fenerbahçe surpassed its rivals in recent years in every field. However, I we can't use a statement about being the all-time best because every team has good times and bad times in its history. Deliogul 18:03, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Now this is exactly why this article needs to be cleaned up. It begins by talking about Fenerbahçe S.K. as something more than just a football team, referring to the various branches of the club in other sports, but after a brief reference the remainder of the article then almost exclusively focused on the football team. Of course, you might well say that since the football team is the major branch, this is justified, but the football team ought in my view to be the subject of a separate article.

The ambiguity regarding "which is the most successful club" could accordingly be handled separately and distinctly, dependent on the subject of the article. It might, for example, be correct to say that as a sports club, Fenerbahçe S.K. are the most successful club in Turkish history, whilst another football team are the most successful football team in Turkish history.

This need not be complicated. It's quite straightforward to count the league titles and the cups won, but when we start confusing the football side with the other sports, and mixing in the youth and junior teams, and the women's teams and so on, then everyone is talking at cross purposes.Tanel76 (talk) 17:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable players list
Can anyone explain why this was brought back even though it was replaced with a few paragraphs and a link to another page with many of the notable enough players? Just because a foreigner played for the club doesn't make him notable enough. CAN 21:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

team ranking
Very strange to play for Gokhan Cetin should not play he —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.14.251 (talk) 00:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC) Ronaldinho

fenerbahce -inter
1-0. Congrats !! I think we should have something like Galatasaray S.K. here. I came here to add the game to such a section. DenizTC 20:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * With all my respect to the scores, I think this kind of section is useless, unless the games played as semi-finals or final matches. For example GS beat Liverpool last year because that livepool was already qualified before the match. And this year Inter was missing many of their players, due to health conditions and punishments that came from last years game against Valencia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.240.17.133 (talk) 02:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "Zanetti, Stankovic, Ibrahimovic, Cambiasso, Solari, Walter Samuel". These are world famous players that started at the first eleven of Inter. Then Mancini also used Figo and Crespo. I also think that such a section is useless but beating a squad like this is not an easy thing and when you consider that Fenerbahçe dominated the game, this is clearly a success. Deliogul 09:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Barca won 5-0 against same Inter last month, that is what domination is. --88.240.17.133 16:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

If Julio Cesar gave us a chance, we could do the same. Didn't you at least watch the highlights of the match? Deliogul 19:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Fenerium sayfası?
İyi derecede ingilizce bilen bir arkdaşımız bir Fenerium sayfasa hazırlasa tam süper olacak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.161.29.211 (talk) 04:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * it will probably fail to meet WP:CORP --88.240.23.45 (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yapilmistir afendim, anglofeb.com kaynakli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.81.167 (talk) 13:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)