Talk:Feral cat/Archive 2

Kerguelen Islands
There are sheep in Kerguelen Islands. See: David Grangette, le berger des Kerguelen. --Ann O'nyme 03:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Macquarie Island - cull gone wrong
Cull upsets island's ecological balance

Although there were initial improvements, the culling saw an unexpected explosion in rats and rabbits population. Rabbits destroy the vegetation, causing erosion and cliff collapse. The rats prey on young birds. The island is in a worst state than before. Can someone add this to the island restoration section? --Dodo bird 06:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I mentioned it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 07:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They should have removed all exotics at the same time, not just one.--Paddling bear (talk) 14:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Uses for feral cats
I read somewhere about the UN having to parachute in 15,000 live cats into the wilds of Borneo to fix an ecological problem. Apparently in some places where cats are native anyway, the use of introducing more cats can have a positive side. It'd be interesting for someone to dig up the source and plonk the story in here.petedavo 04:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC) PS: Jokes about crayfish bait, or chineese resturants are old hat. We hear them all the time in Australia. petedavo 04:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Cats are only native to the Middle East. They have been introduced by humans everywhere else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.1.167 (talk) 22:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Biased article
This is a very biased article, written from a starting point that cats don't have serious effects on native wildlife in places like Australia (wrong), that any form of culling is "bad" and cannot be contemplated (wrong AND naive), and some warped idea that now they're there we just have to accept cats killing and driving to extinction native wildlife (wrong AND foolish). Presumably this starting point is derived by an obsession with cats to the point of beyond reason.

This is not NPOV, it is anything but.

This article needs a re-write so that this chronic bias is removed.

It is totally unacceptable.

Codman 00:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Most study suggests they actually dont have much of an affect, Feral cats prefer to eat Rats and Rabbits (both introduced). The show on SBS (or perhaps ABC/ABC2) last week entitled 10 million cats outlined the same info as written in the article. Yes cats do feed on native wildlife... Have they driven species to extinction? Theres no evidence to suggest that. As the article states, foxes are the likely culprit. There is no neutrality problem here. -- Nbound 00:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Theres no evidence to suggest that. Yes, there is. I cited a paper that said so. There is also evidence to suggest that foxes also cause damage. The whole idea that it is as simple as foxes are bad, cats are okay or cats are responsible for everything is stupid beyond words. It is not an eithor or thing. Both are strong contenders for the cause of damage, with the case against foxes being stronger, but also bearing in mind that cats and foxes don't work in isolation but with factors like land use changes, desertification, overgrazing, climate change, other introduced plants and animals, introduced diseases and so on and so forth. And the extent to which each factor affects a particular threatened species or ecosystem varies on the nature of the ecosystem. Cats may be the major problem here, but over there foxes are worse and yonder the problem may be rats and dingos. Ecology, is complex and unravelling the different patterns and trends takes time, kids. Sabine's Sunbird   talk  00:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I picked up an interesting book at Perth Library called Feral Future by Tim Low ISBN 0670884650 last week, and I'm inclined to now put the feral cat further down the list of nasties in Australia. The cane toad, mice, rats, dingoes, camels, foxes, pigs, brumbys, deer, goats, buffaloe and such like seem to be having a greater impact. Interestingly it seems that australian wildlife has become feral overseas, with redback spiders in Japan, earthworms in Britain, possums, wallabies, and even barnacles (this list is not including non Mammals/marsupials such as the paperbark trees in florida).petedavo 23:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The list you give is full of different species that have widely different impacts. Cane toads are going to impact other amphibians and predators, goats, rabbits, camels and buffalo are going to impact vegetation, foxes and feral cats and dingos impact small mammals and birds. If you want to compare the cats to anything best stick to relatively similar types of predator; foxes, dogs, pigs and mongooses (though thank God they never made it to Australia). Arguably foxes are more damaging than cats. BTW - redbacks are marsupials? :P Sabine's Sunbird  talk  23:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

According to the AusStats invasive species graph cats threaten more native species in Australia than all other invasive species.Diplodwatcher (talk) 05:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Humans do the writing and the complaining, but it seems humans always forget: if Australia has one invasive species that has devastated the environment, it's HUMANS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.7.7.20 (talk) 09:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of opinion, anyone checking one of the key references quoted (Dickman) will find that it is misquoted, and is stated as saying the opposite of what it says (Ie it's misquoted as saying there is no discernable effect). This is shameful and misleading use of an article Clovis Sangrail (talk) 22:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Jellicle cats and the trivia section
As I integrated the trivia section into the body of the article, I added a couple of sentences saying that T.S. Eliot's Jellicle Cats were based on a real colony of feral cats in London. I have added a Fact tag because I cannot find any references to this on the internet. I learned about these cats through a television news item I saw in England many years ago. Apparently the Jellicle cats were going to become extinct because of a neutering programme. I cannot remember where exactly the colony was based, but I believe it was somewhere reasonably close to the central London, perhaps it was in Camden or Marylebone. Maybe an editor in the UK can come up with something more specific.

I removed the reference to a series of fantasy novels with cat protagonists because I couldn't find anything to indicate that the novels have great cultural significance.

I have suggested that it is the cat's reputation for being independent of mind that makes feral cats interesting subjects for literature. This was to make the text flow as much as anything. Strictly speaking, this is original research, but I suspect that it won't be too widely disputed. Obviously someone who knows more about fictional cats will need to rework this. There's a list of fictional cats, but no cats in literature. That could be a very interesting article in itself (Puss in Boots...).Ireneshusband (talk) 10:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Hard, but it works
I do actually have a colony of feral cats, and we have tamed them. They let us pet them, we feed them from the hand, and we can do just about anything with them. One of them was about 3 years old, and we tamed her. That goes to show that feral cats are tamable.


 * Does this mean they are no longer feral then? Have you placed them in homes, do they now live indoors instead of outdoors, are they no longer allowed to roam around freely? A cat colony that lives seperately from humans is still a feral cat colony.Bugguyak (talk) 12:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I have had a feral kitten once at 1 week old back in 1985 in South Africa, but until its death, not very tamable. The feral cats here in U.S. are always somewhat tamer than anywhere else, and most likely only 1 generation away from domesticated. case varies differently and you can NOT conclude whether feral cats are tamable or not by only your very experience. Generally speaking, true ferals are extremely hard and near impossible to tame even at early age, especially being feral for generations, talking about my own experience back in 1980 in South Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Busrel (talk • contribs) 15:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Time and effort
It did take a while, but we managed it, and everything is great. People say that these cats are unadoptable, but, I don't remember them mentioning they had a colony. My indoor cats even were born feral. They are just as cute and cuddly as pure-breds. It was well worth the time.

Cats born feral usually only bond with one person. The fact that a cat has bonded with you does not mean it has become "domestic." One could tame a tiger and make it sleep in one's own bed, but it would not make the tiger less wild.

Rather ironic...
-A quote from the article goes like this:

"However, recent studies published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association indicate that trap-neuter-release programs are not effective in reducing feral cat populations."

After searching online for an actual study showing this, I found the following:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2003.222.42?cookieSet=1&journalCode=javma

which CLEARLY STATES "A comprehensive long-term program of neutering followed by adoption or return to the resident colony can result in reduction of free-roaming cat populations in urban areas."

Perhaps that section should be fixed. :P


 * A later paper suggests otherwise. Results—In both counties, results of analyses did not indicate a consistent reduction in per capita growth, the population multiplier, or the proportion of female cats that were pregnant. The truth about science is that there is seldom a clear cut answer. What may work in one place does not hold for another. Sabine's Sunbird   talk  02:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggested merge
Not enough distinct info in the colony article to warrant a separate article. 165.21.154.93 (talk) 04:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Activism
I have taken out "and while their lives are not luxurious" (lives of working cats). This is POV. I have also taken "out of compassion toward the animals" out of the following "Because of the perceived dangers to humans, other species, and the cats themselves, and out of compassion toward the animals, many people, including celebrities such as Bob Barker, campaign to encourage people to spay and neuter their pets and support the humane control of feral cats." Compassion for the animals is POV. Not only can one not assume why people campaign for S/N of cats, some would claim that S/N is cruel, and that little compassion is involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.180.119 (talk) 03:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Definition
The definition of feral is anything that is wild or that has escaped from domestication and become wild. The definition in the article at present says "A feral cat is a free roaming, unowned and unsocialized domestic cat."

This is origional research. It seems when it comes to cats, people make up a definition for "feral cat" according to how it suites them at the time.

This article should reflect the commonly understood definition of what a feral cat is not origional research. --WikiCats (talk) 14:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a footnote attached to the first sentence that leads you to a reference that says,
 * "A feral cat is an unsocialized cat. Either he was born outside and never lived with a human family, or he is a house cat who has strayed from home and over time has thrown off the effects of domestication and reverted to a wild state."
 * The first sentence of the article says,
 * "A feral cat is a free roaming, unowned and unsocialized domestic cat."
 * These two seem to agree pretty closely; "unsocialized" here means "wild". You can of course improve the wording, as can anyone, by editing the article. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 14:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have pondered that definition of feral too. My references for the definition state that feral is any animal that has returned to an untamed state from domestication. The "unsocialized" statement in the article page is anthropomorphic, since it obviously refers to socialization with humans, but cats certainly have their own social structure, so that can't be right then can it? Bugguyak (talk) 00:37, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why the article doesn't define the word "feral" and explain how the term "feral cats" was chosen to describe this group of cats. I imagine a certain (perhaps large) percentage of the people who come to this article for information, are going to be uncertain (as I was) of what exactly the word "feral" refers to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.192.42.117 (talk) 20:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Simple cross-reference (Wikilink) to "feral" in the first sentence should go some way to help this. Some time ago, I placed accepted definitions of "feral" on the Feral page—GRM (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Australian feral cat article?
This article is very confusing (at least from my perspective) as it is talking about two completely distinct issues; due, I think, to differing semantics. For management purposes [in Australia], cats are divided into three categories — domestic, stray and feral — although individual cats may move between categories. Domestic cats are owned and cared for, and stray cats are those found roaming cities, towns and some rural holdings. Feral cats, survive without any human contact or assistance, and are the main target of control programs within Australia. I think this article should be split into an article referencing the Australian feral cat problem (as definined within Australia), and this article remain to describe the "stray" cat issue as defined above 203.19.130.241 (talk) 05:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC).

Nonsensical line in article
The line "Feral cats continue to have a devastate island ecosystems." makes no sense.

I also agree and wonder why this article seems to be targeted towards Australia. Surely Feral cats exist everywhere and as such the document should be re-written neutrally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.218.216 (talk) 09:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Why does it make no sense? Why does the existence of feral cats everywhere make the article un-neutral? Please be more clear. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  20:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)