Talk:Ferdinand I of Austria/Archive 1

Untitled
There is a translation mistake in the quote. "Knödel" are not noodles, but dumplings.

German Translation of 1848 quotation
Ferdinand's quotation about the 1848 revolutionaries, "But, are they allowed to do that?", translates to:


 * Jo, derfn s' denn des? in dialect, which AFAIK is the original version.
 * Ja, dürfen sie denn das? in Standard German, which might be more suitable for an English article, so I chose it. (I am a German native speaker, though.)
 * German Wikipedia uses Ja, dürfen s' denn des?, which is a compromise version.

Note that this is a style you would perhaps talk to a child that has done something wrong, not to revolutionaries. :-)   Gecek 15:37, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Hm, I think the original quotation was said as it is quoted in the german-speaking Wikipedia. Because in Viennese dialect "derfn" sounds more rough. And there are different levels of Viennese dialect, of which the aristocracy spoke the more noble form, which was always a little bit "nasal", imitating somehow french pronounciation.
 * So the sentence Ja, dürfen s' denn des? can be ideal pronounced in this mixture between Austrian high level language and a pure dialect (also with the accurate intonation). This makes it even more appropiate, as with this pronounciation it is a mixture between naivety and the way the British Queen would speak about an guest who is misbehaving at her garden party ;-) -- Rfortner 18:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Other quotes: A hunter had caught an Imperial eagle and presented it to His Majesty as a gift. Ferdinand: "But, how can that be called an imperial eagle, having no more than one head?" (The Austrian imperial arms are an eagle with two heads.)
 * Whenever anything didn't go quite as well as his successor Francis Joseph I intended, a rumour came up of Ferdinand saying: "Now, I surely would have got so far even myself." (Das hätt ich auch noch zammbracht.)
 * When he resigned and gave over the imperial power to Francis Joseph I: "God bless you; be a good boy; you're welcome." (Gott segne dich; sei brav; es ist gern geschehen.)--2001:A61:260D:6E01:E116:8772:EE65:4D70 (talk) 18:25, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a little misconception about the history of German language: The German language was standardized quite late in history. The way he spoke was the way an Austrian emperor spoke at that time, it was the "German" of Austria. While there were attempts in standardizing the language earlier (Luther's bible, Grimm Brothers, Duden, etc), these were private attempts, and every little fiefdom had its own dialect and type of speech. The first (official) standardization was done in 1876 (by Prussia and later Bavaria), well into the time of the German Empire's ("Kaiserreich") existence. The first nationwide ruleset (which was taken over by both Austria and Switzerland) was implemented in 1902 (and reformed several times ever since). There are other (more capable) Austrian Emperors (e.g. Maria Theresia) whose quotes are traded in a similar language. --2001:8003:4E64:CA00:CD54:F5E7:FB8D:E89 (talk) 15:18, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Genetics
I am tempted to note that the poor man had a deficit of great-grandparents which may have led to his medical problems! Cosnahang 13:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * We shouldn't hypothesize on such things, although it may be evident in our personal sensibilities. This also was a case for discussion for Charles II of Spain and it was shot down. I will change the ancestry template to something clearer that will show that his parents were double first cousins. Charles 20:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's quite probable that Ferdinand's problems were due to inbreeding (see the case of Carlos, Prince of Asturias for example). It's been hypothesised that many health problems of European Royals from 1600 onwards were the result of this (see the the lack of surviving children of Louis XIV of France and Maria Theresa of Spain).  Franz Ferdinand himself complained of this, saying that marrying relatives tended to produce offspring who were retarded or epileptic.  My guess is that a lot of these children got heterozygous recessive genes due to being unlucky in the meosis roulette wheel.  Lec CRP1 (talk) 22:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Anyone's guess or opinion is just that though, even if I share the belief. If Ferdinand can specifically be cited as having a deficit directly caused by inbreeding then it can be included, even if it is already obvious to us. Charles 00:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Wonder if his health case has been analysed in historical-medical journals which being in public domain could be quoted?Cloptonson (talk) 18:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Why "Ferdinand I"?
Why is the article Ferdinand I of Austria? There isn't any Ferdinand II to distinguish him from. I propose we move it to Ferdinand of Austria. -- Jack1755 (talk) 14:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

He called himself "Ferdinand der Erste." We use ordinals when they were used at the time. john k (talk) 21:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Goodinand the Finished
The translation of "Gütinand der Fertige" is a bit off the sense of the original quote. "Fertig" in that sense is more like "done (for)", "chewed up", "frazzled" to the point of "f*cked(-up)". I'd suggest "Goodinand the "done for"" as a translation, but maybe an English native speaker has a better idea of something closer what "der Fertige" meant in this context. It is a relatively harsh description in the German language, "Du bist (voll) fertig" is not a compliment and would be translated with the f-word... --2001:8003:4E64:CA00:CD54:F5E7:FB8D:E89 (talk) 09:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Problematic citations and reference
This articles uses and mentions Ferdinand's diary but offers no citation for quotes drawn directly from this diary and these quotes may be questionable. This diary is also used as evidence that Ferdinand' possessed greater metal faculties than commonly attributed to him.

There is no citation presented for this quote:

Ferdinand recorded the events in his diary: "The affair ended with the new Emperor kneeling before his old Emperor and Lord, that is to say, me, and asking for a blessing, which I gave him, laying both hands on his head and making the sign of the Holy Cross ... then I embraced him and kissed our new master, and then we went to our room. Afterwards I and my dear wife heard Holy Mass ... After that I and my dear wife packed our bags."

It does bear some resemblance to part of this quote from Alexander von Hübners description at http://www.museumonline.at/1996/schulen/pinka/regantr.htm

"Der Kaiserliche Protokollchef Alexander von Hübner schildert die Regierungsübergabe an Erzherzog Franz Joseph in der fürsterzbisch;öflichen; Residenz zu Olmütz; wie folgt: "Genau um acht Uhr öffnete; sich die Tür; des Thronsaales, um den Erzherzögen, den Erzherzöginnen, den Ministern, dem Feldmarschall Windischgraetz, dem Banus Jellacic und dem Grafen Grünne; Einlaß zu geben. Als Protokollführer hatte ich gleichfalls diesem geschichtlichen Staatsakt beizuwohnen. Nachdem sich die Tür hinter uns wieder geschlossen, erschienen die Majestäten, sodann Erzherzog Franz Karl mit Gemahlin, Erzherzogin Sophie, und Erzherzog Franz Joseph. Ihre Majestäten ließen sich auf zwei Lehnstühlen vor dem Thron nieder. Eine feierliche Stille herrschte im dem Saal. Kaiser Ferdinand las mit sichtlicher Bewegung eine Erklärung, in welcher er mit wenigen Worten sagte, daß ihn wichtige Gründe bestimmten, nachdem sein geliebter Bruder auf die Nachfolge verzichtet habe, die kaiserliche Krone zugunsten seines Neffen niederzulegen. Fürst; Felix Schwarzenberg, sonst immer so kalt und gleichmütig, aber heute blässer als gewöhnlich, schien tief ergriffen, als er die Akte der Großjährigkeit; des Erzherzogs, die Entsagungsakte von dessen Vater, endlich die Erklärung des Kaisers, betreffend die Niederlegung der Krone mit lauter, aber zitternder Stimme vorlas. Nachdem Seine Majestät und Erzherzog Franz Karl diese Dokumente unterschrieben hatten, näherte sich der junge Kaiser, ließ sich vor seinem Onkel auf ein Knie und empfing dessen Segen. "Gott segne dich", sagte Ferdinand I., "sei brav, es ist gern geschehen." Die Kaiserin drückte den jungen Monarchen an ihr Herz und hielt ihn lange mit ihren Armen umfangen. Kein Auge blieb trocken."

The Imperial Chief of Protocol, Alexander von Hübner, describes the handover of power to Archduke Franz Joseph in the prince-archbishopric; public; residence in Olmütz; as follows: "Exactly at eight o'clock the door of the throne room opened to let in the archdukes, the archduchesses, the ministers, Field Marshal Windischgraetz, Banus Jellacic and Count Grünne. As the clerk, I also had to attend this historic state ceremony. After the door closed again behind us, their Majesties appeared, then Archduke Franz Karl with his wife, Archduchess Sophie, and Archduke Franz Joseph. Their Majesties sat down on two armchairs in front of the throne. A solemn silence reigned in the hall. Emperor Ferdinand read with visible emotion a declaration in which he said in a few words that important reasons compelled him to relinquish the imperial crown in favor of his nephew after his beloved brother had renounced the succession. Prince; Felix Schwarzenberg, otherwise always so cold and indifferent, but today paler than usual, seemed deeply moved when he read the act of coming of age; of the archduke, read his father's act of renunciation, and finally the emperor's declaration concerning the laying down of the crown in a loud but trembling voice. After His Majesty and Archduke Franz Karl signed these documents, the young Emperor approached, got on one knee in front of his uncle and received his blessing. "God bless you," said Ferdinand I. "Be good, you're welcome." The empress pressed the young monarch to her heart and held him in her arms for a long time. Not a dry eye remained.

This article states: "Yet, although he had epilepsy, he kept a coherent and legible diary and has even been said to have had a sharp wit." (By whom?)

This uses his diary as a reference and proof of his mental capacities but again, it does not cite it while directly referencing it.

I raise this concern because I am researching Ferdinand and have been unable to confirm this quote is attributable to him.

This article also uses a questionable uncited tertiary article about "Mad Monarchs" as a source and reference which I would argue is not a useful reference.

http://madmonarchs.guusbeltman.nl/madmonarchs/ferdinand/ferdinand_bio.htm Chris Welsh 11:15, 17 March 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrusMAX (talk • contribs)