Talk:Ferenc Puskás

Number of goals wrong
In the column to the right it says with an * that number of games and goals is from domestic league only. That's wrong. He's listed with 620 games and 616 goals there, but if I check further down the page these numbers are for domstic league, Copa del Rey and even European games. The correct numbers in the right column should be 341 games and 352 goals for Budapest and 185 games and 156 goals for Real Madrid. Right?

World player of the year
How can Puskas have the World Player of the year award if that prize didnt exist at all in 1952,1953?

The Golden ball was awarded to the best european player since 1956 and to the best world player in this decade The FIFA World player is an award created in the 90's (1991 to be exact) The World Soccer player of the year by World Soccer magazine was created in 1982 The FIFPro World soccer player of the year was created in this century

Anyone knows where that unsourced information comes from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.138.165 (talk) 13:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Nickname
User - 193.170.250.70 - "The Galloping Major" is a nickname only used in England and Central Europe. So it makes no sense to put its Spanish version in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.40.37 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 19 December 2006

No it's not. His nickname was El Comandante Galopante (The Galloping Major) - it's alliteration and it was first used in Spain. By your logic Pele shouldn't be calle O Rei, but The King. - please do not change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.40.37 (talk • contribs) 01:01, 14 December 2006

Death
he died --66.65.56.199 17:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Noooooooooooooo!!!!! :( Rest in peace Puskás öcsi, PALUSHEK may you be the all-time top scorer on Heaven's team. K. Lastochka 02:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture
This one is just temporary. Who are the person on Puskas' picture? Obviously it's not him, so shouldn't it be of him?

Heroes
How can Charlie Buchan be one of his heroes, when he retired from playing the year Puskás was born? 195.26.63.54 08:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Why he left Hungary
Can someone give some details? I have been reading a book "Everton in Europe", in its chapter of the match between Everton and the Greek side Pukas coached, it mentioned that he was away with his club in "free" Europe while Hungarian uprising was crushed by the USSR troops. Can someone with a better source confirm this and add this information to the page? I think it's an important move to Pukas career, without which he would not have been playing a partnership with Di Stefano.

Your source was right, he and several other players of "The Golden Team" remained abroad (mostly in Austria and Italy) after the invasion of the Red Army, but being threatened with an incredible two-year FIFA ban that forbade clubs even to let the "fugitives" train with them, most of them chose to return. Those few who refused to return had to wait until '59 to be signed. --Biziclop 16:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The Hungarian Soccer Association wanted two years of suspension. However, the FIFA only accepted a 1 year ban. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.125.134 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 22 December 2006

It is very important to understand that Puskas did not really want to leave Hungary. No Hungarian footballer really did. The revolution in Hungary progressed rapidly and ended somewhat suddenly with the fast advance of Soviet forces. Hungarians who publicly sided with the rebels were considered outlaws and hunted. The Hungarians breifly had beaten the Soviet Union's occupying forces in the streets of Hungary and NATO support was being sought by all. It seemed reasonable to think an independent Hungary, with help, was possible and worth supporting from abroad. Puskas, among other famous Mighty Magyars, supported this effort from outside Hungary where help was to come from. Help never came and Puskas and the others either rejoined their families in Hungary at the risk of persecution or, the more vocal group like Puskas, stayed out in order to stay alive. This was the consequence for any Hungarian rebel at that time, my father included. It was also the Soviet controlled Hungarian Soccer Association that forced the ban on FIFA. No mention seems to be made on the justification of the FIFA ban.(signed - G. Togel) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grtogel (talk • contribs) 18:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Total Amount of Goals in Career
Someone know? Is up 1.000? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.29.18.41 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 29 January 2006


 * I've found these figures (but I'll verify them in his official biography)


 * 358 goals scored from 349 Hungarian domestic appearances
 * 324 goals scored from 372 Spanish domestic appearances
 * 84 goals scored from 85 Hungarian international matches


 * This totals to 766 goals (from 806 matches) not counting cups and friendly tours with various all-star teams. Hence the estimation of 1000 career goals and considering that this incorporates two years of almost total "silence", even if the real number is less than 1000, ha is in fact one of the most prolific goalscorers of all times.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by Biziclop (talk • contribs) 16:05, 8 March 2006


 * Is it right?
 * He must have played more matches, let's take, for Real Madrid? 179 games in 11 years? That's sixteen games pr. year.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.48.197.104 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 2 September 2006


 * I don't know much about how this site works and what the protocol for suggesting things is, but it seems to me there's some discrepancy in the total number of international goals scored. The article mentions 84 goals in 89 career international matches, then 84 goals in 85 matches for Hungary later on. However, the article also references Fifa's official site and obit as references for the article, yet those same articls put his goal total at 83 goals in 84 caps for Hungary. So who's right? What's the answer? And how do you choose whether to edit or not?
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.65.210.83 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 17 November 2006


 * Atending to official book of real madrid puskas statistics
 * domestic league 154 goals in 179 games
 * domestic cup 46 goals in 41 games
 * european champions cup 34 goals in 39 games
 * intercontinental cup 2 goals in 2 games
 * Total official goals with real madrid side 236 in 261 games
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.175.226.152 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 18 November 2006

This is similar to problems that we have with many retired footballers that played in non-western-european leagues. It is also incredibly tough to determine the number of goals that Pele scored throughout his career, although it's quoted everywhere as 1,281, this number includes hundreds of non-competitive games. The rsssf.com prolific goalscorers article lists Puskas as having scored 701+. Other ideas could be gathered from looking at Talk:Pelé. aLii 10:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's interesting how much of the media is reporting such incorrect numbers. I've just read an article in the independent that says he scored 512 goals for madrid, which is obviously ridiculous - in nine seasons between the ages of 31 and 39 no-one can believe that he averaged 57 goals per season :P
 * Anyway I've found these stats that agree with above and rsssf.com:
 * 1943/44 Kispesti AC........... 18 / 07
 * 1944 ....Kispesti AC........... 14 / 07
 * 1945 ....Kispesti AC........... 20 / 10
 * 1945/46 Kispesti AC........... 33 / 35 [ 3 / 3 ]
 * 1946/47 Kispesti AC........... 30 / 32 [ 5 / 6 ]
 * 1947/48 Kispesti AC........... 32 / 50 [ 5 / 6 ]
 * 1948/49 Kispesti AC........... 30 / 46 [ 5 / 7 ]
 * 1949/50 Honved Budapest... 30 / 31 [ 4 / 7 ]
 * 1950.... Honved Budapest... 15 / 25 [ 6 / 12]
 * 1951.... Honved Budapest... 21 / 21 [ 3 / 4 ]
 * 1952.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 22 [ 9 / 9 ]
 * 1953.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 27 [ 7 / 6 ]
 * 1954.... Honved Budapest... 20 / 21 [12 / 8 ]
 * 1955.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 18 [12 / 10]
 * 1956.... Honved Budapest... 13 / 05 [ 9 / 3 ]
 * 1956/57 suspended
 * 1957/58 suspended
 * 1958/59 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 21
 * 1959/60 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 25
 * 1960/61 Real Madrid.......... 28 / 27
 * 1961/62 Real Madrid.......... 23 / 20 [ 4 / 0 ]
 * 1962/63 Real Madrid.......... 30 / 26
 * 1963/64 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 20
 * 1964/65 Real Madrid.......... 18 / 11
 * 1965/66 Real Madrid.......... 08 / 04
 * 1966/67 Real Madrid.......... 00 / 00
 * Unfortunately the reference isn't great, but I think for raw numbers we now have three lots of Hungary=357 and Madrid=155, with the overall total league goals being 512. aLii 16:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Why don't we use the total goals he scored including cups rather than just the league goals, so it is easier to compare to other goalscoring greats including Pele and Josef Bican when asking about 1000+ goals scored. Kurt000 00:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you take a look at Wikipedia's Pele article it is very clear about how he scored his goals and so a comparison is easy to make. It's pretty standard to concentrate on league goals over and above cup goals, and I guess the reasoning is that players at successful teams have many more opportunities to play in cup games. aLii 17:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, looks like you are right, sorry about the misunderstanding. Thanks Kurt000 22:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

"In his club career, he apparently totalled 511 goals, a number believed to be third all-time behind Pelé and Josef Bican." Given that Romario scored over 900 goals, this seems unlikely. Maybe someone could do an edit. It is also unlikley that he is the fourth all time scorer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chilliphil12345 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 23 December 2005


 * Friendereich got more than Pelé, fifth and counting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Biziclop (talk • contribs) 16:21, 8 March 2006
 * Franz "Bimbo" Binder scored 1006 goals in his career. That one includes league, friendlies and national team goals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.56.141.25 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 17 November 2006

I've just moved the above three comments to here as they fit better here than in the Death section aLii 17:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I know the same number of goals as aLii said in November 2006, but if you add up his goals for Real Madrid, the result is 154. 357 + 154 = 511 93.210.180.65 (talk) 17:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Pantheon
Absolute POV on the six greatest players of all time.

Disagree. Undoubtably he is alongside Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano as one of the world's greatest players. 82.69.40.37

Reference
I don't know anything about Puskas, and from what I understand he is a legend. However, this page has many comments such as 'the finist team of the era', 'the finest player' etc... I'm not disputing it, I think it would be good to have more reference. Azymuthca 19:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Just look at the results of that time. Hungary won against everyone. The only mistake, though, was in the 54 WC final where they lost after first taken the lead against West-Germany. Earlier in that WC, they won them by 8-3. I don't think Puskas needs any further explanation either. Look at his record for RM. And his i.eg. european cup wins aso...

My point is... whe don't need reference where he or RM is said to be "one of the finest...".

3 Champions Cups
Puskas won 3 European Cups, and not just one! He played and won in the 1959 (but was injured for the final), played and won in the 1960, and played and won in the 1966 (he didn't play the final). after the 66' third cup he retired to become a coach.

http://www.goldenfoot.com/ochampions.cfm?id=16

Puskas only played in two European Cup finals - 1960 and 1962. He was injured for the 1959 final, as stated in article, and did not play in 1966. You can not credit him with finals he did not appear in as this is inaccurate. Puskas had a pretty successful career and it does not need embellishing Djln--Djln 21:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with the anonymous user. He did not play in these finals, but he was part of the Real Madrid squad that season. A cup isn't won only on the day of the final, but takes a lot of matches in a whole season. SportsAddicted | discuss  15:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you included every player who played for a winning team in previous round of a competition, individual honours lists could go on for ever and could be considered inaccurate. Cup competitions only give winners medals to players who played in final. Djln--Djln 21:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then why is it that reserve players are also allowed to to step up when a cup is lifted? They also get their medals even if they didn't play and they can celebrate with those who did play in the final. Another thing, the article about Puskás in German is a featured article there and it says he won all three of those stated above by the anonymous user. I don't say we should copy it because the Germans do it, but as far as I know reserve players also get their medals. SportsAddicted | discuss  23:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've gotta say that I agree with Djln on this one. To have really "won" something you generally have to have played in the final. aLii 10:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why is it that all players on this picture have medals awarded then? Even those that are in a suit. SportsAddicted | discuss  00:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In 1966, Puskás was still part of the team; therefore, he gets awarded for any success his team has had during his stay.


 * Puskas was part of the squad which won the European Cup in 1959, 1960 and 1966. He missed the 1959 and 1966 finals through injury but collected winners' medals after playing in earlier rounds.--Crzycheetah 00:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Things to do for Improvement Drive

 * The style of writing in "Brief Overview" is completely inappropriate. It is far too flowery and descriptive, to say nothing of the archaic language being used for attempted (and, in my opinion, failed) effect.  E.g. "in the arc light and formative glow of emerging nascent mass media" ('emerging nascent' is obviously redundant); "the man of large and joyous appetites and a heart spent on goodwill", etc.  It smacks of someone who thinks they could have made it as a writer and is trying to prove it through their vocabulary and "poetic" turns of phrases.  Someone please rewrite this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.249.85 (talk) 07:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * His career needs a lot more citations, only the first and last paragraphs of his playing career have any.
 * That quotes section needs to go. Perhaps shift to Wikiquote?
 * Trivia - Merge or get rid of
 * The hard part - a copyedit to give the article more flow, and cut down on the number of subheadings. Oldelpaso 22:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Since I did revamp the quotes section, I think that the quotes section should move to Wikiquote, rather than be deleted because as a great footballer, many great things have been said about/by him so it would be useful to keep and move the links to Wikiquote. I am not to sure which parts of the article need citation, though if you could point me into the right direction, I am sure I will be able to help.Kurt000 18:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have some suggestions too:
 * Move the quotes section to Wikiquote.
 * The 1954 World Cup and Honvéd world tour sections need citations.
 * Remove the sectionstub template from the later life section.
 * Spain national team subsection needs expanding or merging.--Crzycheetah 20:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

List of goals
I'm not sure that the list of international goals is appropriate, it seems to me to be an excessive level of detail. Oldelpaso 22:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The list should be more complete. It does not include Puskás International matches for Spain. Lsw10 (talk) 11:51, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Rewrite
Previous version included too many flags and an over use of date linking in the infobox. Puskás career was not done justice by just dividing into two eras - Hungary and Spain. Previous version of coaching career was little more then a list of clubs he managed. This is already in infobox. Events in later life are better included in opening section which gives an overview of his life. Later sections can provide more detail to his career. Djln--Djln 17:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The introduction should stand on its own as a summary of the article, everything in it should be expanded upon lower down. See WP:LEAD for details. Hence I think the later life details should remain at the end of the article. Oldelpaso 19:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think his later life details are better placed in the overview at start. What's here is hardly worth expanding on further down. WP:LEAD seems to suggest that the opening should included an overview of the whole subject with the most important aspects of career expanded in later sections. Djln --Djln 02:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Greatness
We can verify number of goals, so we can claim the greatest scorer. Most think scoring is the hardest part. This way we can still say "greatest" Chivista 14:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The articles on Pele and George Best all have some variation of "considered one of the greatest" in their opening paragraph, and those are only the first two articles I looked at, I'm sure I could find more examples. Many, many people do consider Puskás to be one of the greatest of all time, mentioning that is not POV, it is an encyclopedic fact. K. Lásztocska 14:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I would prefer removal of that type of language from the Pele et al also, and replace it with... so and so is considered by the 1995 survey of sportswriters as the greatest or is the only player elected unamoiunsly in the futbol hall of fame etc. Chivista 14:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC) We don't like revert wars.

I don't like revert wars either--notice I haven't reverted past that original change I made earlier. I understand your concerns, but I am of the opinion that mentioning public opinion can be perfectly encyclopedic. Not everything has to be 150% objective, especially when we're talking about stuff like footballers. :)


 * The ironic thing is that we know he was great,... we just can't be too emphatic without quoting someone esle, the more famous the quoted person the more easily we can get our edit accepted as not "mere" opinion. But we all know that much of the wiki is opinion based (yet fact supported).  We are merely an encyc, not the stuff of basic research.  We would succeed if we could provide researchers links and direction, not the last word on every fact.  Wiki is very good at providinf a research tool for people who don't know a thing about a give topic. Chivista 14:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, agreed. Let's go look for some famous people to quote. :) K. Lásztocska 15:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed the claim from Alfredo Di Stéfano, Ferenc Puskás, Michel Platini, Diego Maradona, Johan Cruijff and Pelé. Quotes saying "x considered him the greatest" are fine, as with the opening paragraph in the George Best article. I think saying "most successful" or "most prolific golscorer" is better than just stating "one of the greatest". Goals and trophies are easy to back up with references, "greatness" is POV. I started a related conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football. Stu   ’Bout ye!  15:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Position
I don't understand why it was chosen "striker" when previously the article stated the historical playing position was "inside-left" with this reference given... http://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/nov/17/newsstory.sport8

Study: Germany 1954 World Cup winners 'were doped'
According to German olympic committee

http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/story/14192143/study-german-1954-world-cup-winners-were-doped http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html http://www.newstime.co.za/Sport/Study_claims_Germany%E2%80%99%E2%80%99s_1954_cup_winners_doped/13704/ http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/worldcup/story/Study-1954-World-Cup-champions-Germany-were-doped —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.114.153 (talk) 16:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality
This text looks like an ode to Ferenc Puskás, not like an encyclopedic article (Iaaasi (talk) 09:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC))

What about world cups other than 1954?
I think the article lacks the information why he didn't play in later world cups. I consider he didn't play in 1958 and 1962, as well as 1966, although he was still a player, not retired...

Can someone fill in the gap in the article or at least for me? --134.161.69.50 (talk) 04:22, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Ferenc Puskás Jr.?
Was Puskás's full name officially Ferenc Puskás Jr.? According to Hungarian Wikipedia, his father was a Senior (‘id.’ is short for ‘idősebb’, or senior), but the page for Puskás himself doesn't say that he was a Junior (‘ifjabb’, or ‘ifj.’ for short, in Hungarian). Esszet (talk) 20:39, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

He was called as "Puskás Öcsi" ("öcsi" means younger brother) so we hungarians were not in nedd to call him az 'ifjabb' or 'jr'. It's not even his name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.132.185.85 (talk) 20:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

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Continental goals for Honved?
Can someone please verify the origin of the 4 games, 4 goals for Honved in 'continental' matches in 1955? As far as I know, Honved only played 2 matches in the European Cup, with Puskas appearing in both and scoring once. They lost the tie and the team broke up. But that was in late 1956 (albeit relates to their qualification by winning the Hungarian league in 55) so should be in a separate column. And where are the other 2 games / 3 goals coming from? If it's not obvious to me, it might not be to others either so I think if the stats are correct, there should be a label beside them to explain what matches they refer to? Crowsus (talk) 09:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

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 * Puskasreal.jpg

Repeatedly changing to wrong birthname
He was born as Franz Purczeld.Tthe attempted hungarification be the editor is not based on facts. Bring some sources or leave it be. Sources (german):

https://kulturstiftung.donauschwaben.net/veranstaltungen/2011_03_26_ferenc_puskas

https://issuu.com/raiissuu/docs/korrespondenz_24_1_2007 p.24 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redxdevil (talk • contribs) 14:53, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Introduction --> name
From the introduction: "Ferenc Puskás ... né Ferenc Puskás". Is it me, or the two names are identical? 2A00:23C5:3408:4101:6D53:BBAC:E13A:2210 (talk) 23:33, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Absolutely relevant claim completely unsourced
The article claims the player is the one who gave most assists in the history of soccer, and the statement is completely unsourced. It should be either sourced for such important claim or removed.
 * Agreed. Can't see any source for the claim, and the table format isn't our standard MOS. Have removed pursuant to a reliable source being provided. Koncorde (talk) 21:35, 3 September 2022 (UTC)