Talk:Fermentation (disambiguation)

Disambiguation
I have converted this page into a disambiguation so that Fermentation (food), Fermentation (biochemistry), and Industrial fermentation can be better organized and focused on. I hope people like this.

I realize some of you may be surprised to see this article as a disambiguation now. I'm copying and pasting something for you to read that way you understand my view point about the situation. This was taken from the Fermentation (biochemistry) discussion page: "To Ww2cencor, you have already put up a tag to suggest merging this with in the main Fermentation article within an hour of creating this article. That was before I even got a chance to convert the main Fermentation article into a disambiuation page. So really what would be merged now is this article along with the Fermentation (food) article and possibly the Industrial fermentation article as well. In the history of this article's page you said "most of this is duplication of the other article". This is because the previous Fermentation article was horribly organized. I practically just took the sections related to food and created an article for that, and tookthe sections related to biochemistry and created an article for that. It was an attempt to better organize them and I feel as though they do deserve their own article just as Industrial fermentation does. I'm hoping for at least some decent discussion about this before it is decided to be immediately merged back to what it was. And even if it is, my edits to do with lactic acid and all that should be applied and it should be reconstructed to better organization rather than just converting what the main Fermentation article was before I converted it to a disambiguation page. Jamesters 21:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)"

Sections in quotes
The quoted paragraphs are from the 1811 Household Cyclopedia, and are way out of date. Originally, this article was just the Cyclopedia entry for 'fermentation', then I rewrote it, but I never got around to replacing that part.

--Johnkarp 01:00, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Mistake
"Products produced by fermentation, such as ethanol and lactic acid, are used as a substitute for oxygen. During cellular respiration, oxygen is the final electron acceptor. However, when no oxygen is available, ethanol and lactic acid is used in place of oxygen."

That ain't true. The final electron acceptor is the pyruvate (for the lactic fermentation) and acetaldehyde (for the alcoholic fermentation).


 * lactic fermentation : glycose -> pyruvate (via glycolysis) and then pyruvate -> lactic acid (and NADH->NAD+ in the same time => the one which receives the electrons is the pyruvate)


 * alcoholic fermentation : glycose -> pyruvate (via glycolysis) then pyruvate -> acetaldehyde+ CO2 and finally acetaldehyde -> ethanol (and NADH->NAD+ in the same time => the one which receives the electrons is the acetaldehyde)

These products are in fact usually not used at all : the cell simply evacuates them. But indeed sometimes they are used. For exemple some cells, in contact with ethanol and oxygen, can use ethanol as a source of energy. Lactic acid can also be transformed : for exemple, in the liver of animals, it can be transformed back in pyruvate, then in glucose via the gluconeogenesis.

SafaRikas, April 2005

There are many more important products of fermentation like acetic acid, propionic acid, citric acid, aceton-butanol etc which are equally significant at industrial level & needs to be mentioned. Feb, 2006


 * Gundruk is not an Indian pickle. It is indigenous to mountain people of Nepal. Please have a look here:http://www.itdg.org/docs/technical_information_service/gundruk.pdf Aaniyo 16 Jan, 06

There are many other important & commonly consumed fermented foods in Indian Culture except idli & pickle. These are Dosa, Uttappam, Dhokla, Naan, Jalebi, Papadam, Dahi(curds)which are outcome of cereal and/ or pulses fermentation except for last one. dahi is made from milk fermentation. Feb, 2006 "Fermentation is a process that is important in anaerobic conditions when there is no oxidative phosphorylation to maintain the production of ATP by glycolysis." Is this meant to imply that fermentation is an important process to places where there is no air? --seventhtrilogy 19:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Brewing?
Why is there so much material here about brewing? It seems more appropriate to me to have it under 'brewing'.

--Johnkarp 22:56, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. &mdash; Pekinensis 03:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Umm lets see because brewing is a major part of the fermentation process. Some people I tell ya.


 * No, fermentation is part of the brewing process. Brewing also includes malting, starch conversion, steeping, etc. None of which have anything to do with fermentation. --Johnkarp 13:36, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, now brewing isn't mentioned at all. That can't be right. There's a link to "Fermentation (wine)", so why isn't there a similar link for "Fermentation (beer)"? Deepfryer99 (talk) 17:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Because there is no page at Fermentation (beer). — Bigwyrm watch me wake me 06:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well there should be. I linked to "Brewing#Fermenting", which is just as good. From the "fermentation" page, it's better to link directly to the fermentation section of the brewing article, rather than the top of the article. If someone wants to know about fermentation, they don't necessarily want to read through the entire history and process of brewing, which involves a lot more than just the fermentation step. Deepfryer99 (talk) 15:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, write one, then. You could probably split the fermentation section of the Brewing article into an article of its own. If you want some input or assistance with that, you can probably find some helpful person at WikiProject Beer. In the meantime, please review the disambiguation guidelines with regard to disambiguation pages and Manual of Style with regard to disambiguation pages. In particular, please note that while piped links in articles and discussions improve the flow of material, piped links on disambiguation pages are deprecated. — Bigwyrm watch me wake me 20:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, this falls perfectly under "exception #1" with regards to piped links. Regardless, the manual of style even says, ignore these guidelines, so I think you are being unnecessarily bureaucratic, considering the fact that the piped link is more convenient than linking to the top of the "brewing" article, as I explained earlier. If you are still unsatisfied, I encourage you to "be bold" and write the article yourself. Deepfryer99 (talk) 22:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Zymotic
I somehow doubt that this page is going to get a large influx of people coming to find out about a minor in-development computer game. I would even question the notability of the zymotic page, but I'm somewhat inclusionist. Not this inclusionist, though. --Slashme 05:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Clarity
This article should be reworked in the interest of clarity for the reader. Right now, information is scattered here and there without any rhyme or reason. I don't have a huge amount of technical knowledge on the subject, but I can tell (by crosschecking in various textbooks) that it could be reorganized in a simpler way. Fuzzform 15:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The article should be split into two sections: one about fermentation as it relates to food, and one about the importance of fermentation in biochemistry (info on the latter is scattered throughout the article). Fuzzform 16:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

History
I have sometimes wondered how or why fermented items became popular. Did wine become popular because of its side effects, or because in the days before refrigeration it was easier to store than large quantities of fresh juice? Was beer discovered accidentally (perhaps someone drank fermented tea or soup), or was it the result of experimentation, based on observations about wine or fruit? Are there any ancient documents about the subject? Or modern scholarly musings about fermentation as it relates to ancient cultures?

Also, I wanted to point out that there are two sections called "History" in the article; perhaps they should somehow be differentiated. The first one is mostly about evidence of fermentation as an early cooking technology, and the second one is about more modern discoveries about the biochemical processes behind fermentation. Maybe the titles should be changed to something like "History: Use in ancient cultures" and "History:  Scientific discoveries"? B7T 10:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Move request
See Talk:Fermentation (biochemistry). —Srnec (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)