Talk:Fernando Pessoa

Coca-Cola Ad
Worth mentioning?

I was wondering if it was worth mentiong that Fernando Pessoas was the author of the portuguese Coca-Cola slogan. Eventually it (and Pessoa's association to Coca-Cola) was used as an excuse to prohibit Coca-Cola from being sold in Portugal. If need be, I can provide a link to a credible page which tells this "tale".

Ed.: The Individual


 * previous comment by: The_Individual 23:33, 2005 Apr 29


 * I think it is worth a brief note. Mostly if you can get a good translation of it. Be bold!--Nabla 01:02, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)


 * The page is the following:

Pessoa wrote the following slogan for Coca-Cola - "Primeiro estranha-se. Depois entranha-se" (roughly "First you find it strange. Then you can't get enough of it.") Afterwards, Lisbon's director of Health had Coca-Cola banned on the following premisses: - If one of the ingredients is coca, from which cocaine is extracted, then the product can't be sold so as to not intoxicate the public; - If the product does not have coca, then selling it under that name to get customers is fraud; hence, it cannot be sold; - Pessoa recognized its toxicity, for his slogan was very specific. Not liking a substance at first but then getting used to it is a characteristic of drugs.

And so Pessoa inadvertently sealed Coca-Cola's fate in Portugal for the following decades.

Edit war?
I'm seeing some large scale reverts going on here that appear to be a content dispute. Would the contestants please care to express their opinions here? Kelly Martin 04:39, May 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * The original article was replaced a short time ago with a highly POV essay that seems to be a copy of a review posted at Amazon.com (sorry, had to use Google's cache, Amazon is confusing me today). I reverted to last version of article before this person began editing.  I've got no real stake in the article; I've never heard of this person.  As it says on my  page, I'm just trying to keep the place clean. Xcali 04:48, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

sure..
I apologize for having deleted your article on Pessoa. It was selfish of me to simply replace it. I tell you what: why don't we join the articles together and call it quits? I think it quite senseless to be "fighting" over who's article is published...

re:
that amazon article of which you speak just happens to have been written by me....

1st person?
Is someone here writing in the first person? ISn't that a little, um, wrong? Just a thought...

ditto the 1st p
whoever wrote in 1st person needs to change it to 3rd. really, that should never have gotten on the main page, it belongs here, in talk

Ricardo Reis...the weakest of the three?
I read Fernando Pessoa from my 16-years from whom I discover a different view of the world,and strong depth of the portuguese soul,wich im proud to have. I suggest that the person who wrote the Ricardo Reis article would read more carefully Ricardo Reis;he is the most complex of the tree major heteronyms,the most bitter,and has the most phylosophical depth. It may be that traduction to english spoiled the beauty of the original in portuguese, still Ricardo Reis is the most difficult of the three heteronyms to achieve,it was my last discovery in the Pessoa´s universe and it calls the maturity of our minds for a viril realistic/pessimistic view of the world. Although the firts person use in the article does not seem serious,an enciclopedia must express the minimum personal views as possible. An encyclopedia is a not a newspaper article.

Re....
You're correct: an encyclopedia should aim to be as objective as possible. Keep in mind that I did not originally intend this article for WIKIPEDIA. I wrote the article out of personal curiosity. Thoughts impress themselves more markedly when we write them down... And this is essentially why I wrote the essay on Pessoa. Another factor that influenced my decision was this: the article that was here before was poor in quality. I figured my article was better than the one then available, and so I replaced it. I am well aware that introducing my personality--at to some extent my ego--may offend people, but alas, it is unavoidable. I remain steadfast in my belief that Reis is inferior to Campos and Caeiro--but let's not kill each other over it. I tell you what: let's agree to disagree. EMC

Similarities
Just thought I'd mention this, but has anyone noticed the similarities between Pessoa and Joyce's physical appearance? Could it be that one copied the others style? --The Individual 15:13, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

heteronyms
The primacy of Alexander Search is, I think, incorrect: "I remember, thus, what seems to me to have been my first heteronym, or rather, my first inexistant acquaintance - a certain Chevalier de Pas when I was about six, on whose behalf I wrote letters to myself, and whose appearance, not entirely hazy, still has a hold on that part of my affections which borders upon saudade [nostalgia]." -letter to Adolf Casais Moneiro, 13 Jan 1935 from A centenary Pessoa, Carcanet, regards LT 195.92.67.73 20:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Two Remarks on Alberto Caeiro
(1) There are some unaccuracies in citation. For example: "Indeed Caeiro, Richard Zenith tells us, was not simply a pagan but 'paganism itself'." This is not Richard Zenith, but Álvaro de Campos in his "Remarks on my Master Alberto Caeiro". Thus: Pessoa himself. (2) The section about Caeiro is very naive. There is written more or less literally what Pessoa wants us to believe about Caeiro. But Caeiro's poems still are poems and so they may be interpreted. Just an example for what I mean (guardador de rebanhos II): "and the herd is my thinking" ("e o rebanho é os meus pensamentos"). With this verse all "Caeiro just exists" and "Caeiro doesn't interprete things" fail. Sure he does. He is not talking about reality but he's talking about his philosophy, which may be described as thinking of not-thinking (like - perhaps - in buddhism). It is difficult to discuss interpretations in an encyclopedia, but I think also it is not the best solution to copy the interpretations the author himself made about his poems. (And with Pessoa you never know which of his "innocent" lines are part of his fictional writing and which are really "innocent".)

Jose Saramago's Ricardo Reis
May be worth mentioning that Jose Saramago wrote a novel called "The Year of the Death of Ricardo Reis", which is written from the point-of-view of Reis and deals with his encounters with the ghost of Pessoa in Lisbon. In the novel, Reis was a doctor, fellow poet and friend of Pessoa.

Sexuality
The sentence "My destiny belongs to a different law, whose existence some do not even suspect" strongly suggests that FP was into the occult ("a different law"), requiring abstinence or total dedication - his asexuality. His exchanges and his meeting with Aleister Crowley in Lisbon, as well as several of FP's writings also suggest it. --Xyzt1234 13:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Pessoa's heavy alcoholism was incompatible with any serious spiritual discipline. AnnaBruta (talk) 19:43, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Actually, it would be very meaningful, I think, to include a section on FP and the Occult, q.v. "Escritos Íntimos, Cartas e Páginas Autobiográficas", "Portugal, Sebastianismo e Quinto Império", "A Procura da Verdade Oculta - Textos filosóficos e esotéricos", ... (titles are from the publisher). --Xyzt1234 13:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

--It is actually more likely that pessoa was gay, as he is heavily asscoiated with the uranian poets, producing a boook of uranian poetry himself, and meetign with such uranians as Crowley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.218.162 (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Fernando Pessoa had gay friends but most of the people who know him, like the most important Portuguese scholar of his work and his personal friend João Gaspar Simões, believed he was a sublimated heterosexual. He had a girlfriend for a while, Ofélia de Queiroz, and their relashionship seems to have lead Pessoa to contemplate marriage. He had several gay friends, like António Botto, and wasn't homophobe, but that doesn't mean automatically that he was gay. In his "Book of Disquiet" he speaks about his sublimated sexuality and his celibacy. I will try to copy some parts of it.82.154.80.244 (talk) 17:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry friend, but while I may agree with your point, I don't think The Book of Disquiet can be used as a reliable source about Pessoa as a person. Have you forgotten it was written by and about Bernardo Soares? It could be that in some way it truly reflects Pessoa's positions and opinions, but it absolutely can't be proven that they are indeed his. &bull; H☼&omega;d&Theta;esI&dagger;fl&notin;&isin;   {KLAT}  &bull; 22:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * His brief, very platonic flirt with Ofélia Queirós was dismissed by Pessoa himself to Agostinho da Silva in 1934-1935 as a very sorrowful heteronymic fantasy of his, in which he incarnated a common office clerk in love with a fellow female worker, to whom he wrote ridiculous love letters. He put an end to it when he realized he was causing distress to a flesh-and-blood young woman and not some character in his inner theatre. Fernando Dacosta. Os Mal-Amados, Casa das Letras, Lisboa, 2008
 * Fernando Dacosta said he interviewed Ofélia in her later years and she described Pessoa as an embarrassed man who didn't know how to kiss («um 'encolhido', que nem sequer sabia beijar»). A homossexualidade de Fernando Pessoa book presentation at Casa Fernando Pessoa, Lisboa, May 4, 2023, at Youtube, see 30:21
 * Pessoa defined himself as a case of «inversão sexual fruste» — "incomplete sexual inversion" — in this personal note: «I recognize, without illusion, the nature of this phenomenon. It's an incomplete sexual inversion. It stops in the spirit. However, in moments of self-absortion I was always worried, never was I ever sure, nor will I ever be, that this disposition couldn't one day become physical. I cannot say that I would then practice that urge's inherent sexuality. But the craving itself would be humiliating enough for me.» Fernando Pessoa, PREFÁCIO - Não encontro dificuldade em definir-me...
 * Recently Victor Correia (1961), a Portuguese researcher, has authored three books concerning Pessoa's probable repressed homosexuality: Homossexualidade e Homoerotismo em Fernando Pessoa, Colibri, Lisboa, 2018, Homossexualidade no Livro do Desassossego de Fernando Pessoa, Colibri, Lisboa, 2020 and A Homossexualidade de Fernando Pessoa, Edições Vieira da Silva, Lisboa, 2023.
 * AnnaBruta (talk) 00:30, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

We can't forget that Bernardo Soares was a semi-heteronym unlike the other ones. Pessoa never developed him entirely as a autonomous heteronym unlike Alberto Caeiro, Álvaro de Campos and Ricardo Reis.Mistico (talk) 15:26, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Álvaro de Campos was Pessoa's favourite heteronym and the one who most reflected his deeper self. AnnaBruta (talk) 19:38, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Caeiro and his interpretation
I'm quite shure, that the interpretation of Caeiro's poetry is "wrong" - this is at least my interpretation of his writings.

"Poetry before Caeiro was essentially interpretative; what poets did was to offer an interpretation of their perceived surroundings; Caeiro does not do this. Instead, he attempts to communicate his senses, and his feelings, without any interpretation whatsoever."

But that is only, what he keeps telling us. He never realises his project due to beeing much to programmatical. He tells us what he (an as such we) should be doing - but in this position never realises his project. Due to my rather bad englisch an example:

He never writes about flovers as they are or as we percive them, but that a flower should be subject of poetry. His own programatic way keeping him from archiving his own programm.

as such i woul prefer his poetry beeing split into his programmatic and his own metapoetical style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.220.148 (talk) 15:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Álvaro de Campos: "The Tobacco Shop" (Tabacaria)
I can’t say I am a lover of poetry, but I came across a book of Pessoa’s poetry in the original Portuguese and I find a connection with his words. My Portuguese is a little rusty, but isn’t the translation of the tabacaria poem:

I am not nothing I shall never be nothing I cannot wish to be nothing. That aside, I have in me all the dreams of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.146.140 (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

That would be "I cannot wish to be anything", wouldn't it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andersonlrc (talk • contribs) 14:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it wouldn't, as "anything" translates very differently from "nothing" to Portuguese. And the persistence of the word nothing is, I think, of extreme importance for the tone and general meaning of the poem. I, myself, think that it would be better translated if it were: "I am nothing I shall forever be nothing I cannot wish to be nothing. Aside from that, I have in me all the dreams of the world." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.137.16.115 (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

uncourteous edits
I had put an external link to a page which contains Pessoa poems - and 201.240.153.246 (whoever this is) deleted it. Please let me know the reason. In general, if you are editing something put in by someone else - please be courteous enough to leave a note and a callback address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlavannis (talk • contribs) 22:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Fernando Pessoa Political Beliefs
I am from Portugal and I have a general knowledge of Fernando Pessoa beliefs and his political views. This letter taken from the Portuguese Wikipedia sumarizes his beliefs. From the letter, that belongs to Architecht Fernando Távora colection, I can translate: "Conservador do estilo inglês, isto é, liberal dentro do conservantismo, e absolutamente anti-reaccionário.", "A conservative from the english style, that means a liberal inside conservantism, and absolutely anti-reactionary." I know from his political writtings that he supported the proclamation of the republic in 1910, he became disappointed with the republican politics and supported Sidónio Pais regimen, in 1918. He also would support the Military Dictatorship in a famous pamphlet, but it is obvious from it that he saw the Dictatorship as a transitional period until a proper democracy was created. He never expressed any sympathy by the Estado Novo or Salazar. He even mocked Salazar in a famous poem, maling a pun with his name in portuguese, Sal and Azar (Salt and Bad Luck). He called himself anti-socialist and anti-communist, but wasn't by any means anti-democratic. He also supported and wrote in defense of the Freemasonary when it was banned by Salazar government in 1935. I will provide more sources from his works to clarify better his political beliefs. This is the famous "Personal File", where he describes his political and religious views: "Ficha pessoal (também referida como "Nota autobiográfica", que não é), intitulada no original "Fernando Pessoa", dactilografada e assinada pelo escritor em 30 de Março de 1935. Publicada pela primeira vez, muito incompleta, como introdução ao poema À memória do Presidente-Rei Sidónio Pais, editado pela Editorial Império em 1940. Publicada em versão integral em Fernando Pessoa no seu Tempo, Biblioteca Nacional, Lisboa, 1988, pp. 17–22.

FERNANDO PESSOA Nome completo: Fernando António Nogueira de Seabra Pessoa. Idade e naturalidade: Nasceu em Lisboa, freguesia dos Mártires, no prédio n.º 4 do Largo de S. Carlos (hoje do Directório) em 13 de Junho de 1888. Filiação: Filho legítimo de Joaquim de Seabra Pessoa e de D. Maria Madalena Pinheiro Nogueira. Neto paterno do general Joaquim António de Araújo Pessoa, combatente das campanhas liberais, e de D. Dionísia Seabra; neto materno do conselheiro Luís António Nogueira, jurisconsulto e Director-Geral do Ministério do Reino, e de D. Madalena Xavier Pinheiro. Ascendência geral: misto de fidalgos e judeus. Estado civil: Solteiro. Profissão: A designação mais própria será "tradutor", a mais exacta a de "correspondente estrangeiro" em casas comerciais. O ser poeta e escritor não constitui profissão, mas vocação. Morada: Rua Coelho da Rocha, 16, 1º. Dto. Lisboa. (Endereço postal - Caixa Postal 147, Lisboa). Funções sociais que tem desempenhado: Se por isso se entende cargos públicos, ou funções de destaque, nenhumas. Obras que tem publicado: A obra está essencialmente dispersa, por enquanto, por várias revistas e publicações ocasionais. É o seguinte o que, de livros ou folhetos, considera como válido: "35 Sonnets" ((em inglês)), 1918; "English Poems I-II" e "English Poems III" (em inglês também), 1922; livro "Mensagem", 1934, premiado pelo "Secretariado de Propaganda Nacional" na categoria Poema". O folheto "O Interregno", publicado em 1928 e constituído por uma defesa da Ditadura Militar em Portugal, deve ser considerado como não existente. Há que rever tudo isso e talvez que repudiar muito. Educação: Em virtude de, falecido seu pai em 1893, sua mãe ter casado, em 1895, em segundas núpcias, com o Comandante João Miguel Rosa, Cônsul de Portugal em Durban, Natal, foi ali educado. Ganhou o prémio Rainha Vitória de estilo inglês na Universidade do Cabo da Boa Esperança em 1903, no exame de admissão, aos 15 anos. Ideologia Política: Considera que o sistema monárquico seria o mais próprio para uma nação organicamente imperial como é Portugal. Considera, ao mesmo tempo, a Monarquia completamente inviável em Portugal. Por isso, a haver um plebiscito entre regimes, votaria, embora com pena, pela República. Conservador do estilo inglês, isto é, liberal dentro do conservantismo, e absolutamente anti-reaccionário. Posição religiosa: Cristão gnóstico e portanto inteiramente oposto a todas as igrejas organizadas e, sobretudo, à Igreja Católica. Fiel, por motivos que mais adiante estão implícitos, à Tradição Secreta do Cristianismo, que tem íntimas relações com a Tradição Secreta em Israel (a Santa Kabbalah) e com a essência oculta da Maçonaria. Posição iniciática: Iniciado, por comunicação directa de Mestre a Discípulo, nos três graus menores da Ordem dos Templários de Portugal. Posição patriótica: Partidário de um nacionalismo místico, de onde seja abolida toda a infiltração católico-romana, criando-se, se possível for, um sebastianismo novo que a substitua espiritualmente, se é que no catolicismo português houve alguma vez espiritualidade. Nacionalista que se guia por este lema: "Tudo pela Humanidade; nada contra a Nação". Posição social: Anti-comunista e anti-socialista. O mais deduz-se do que vai dito acima. Resumo de estas últimas considerações: Ter sempre na memória o mártir Jacques de Molay, Grão-Mestre dos Templários, e combater, sempre e em toda a parte, os seus três assassinos - a Ignorância, o Fanatismo e a Tirania. Lisboa, 30 de Março de 1935 [em várias edições está 1933, por lapso] Fernando Pessoa [assinatura autografa] Fonte: Cópia do original dactilografado e assinado existente na Colecção do Arquitecto Fernando Távora.Mistico (talk) 15:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Fernando Pessoa article in defense of Freemasonary is called  As Associações Secretas: Análise Serena e Minuciosa a Um Projecto de Lei Apresentado ao Parlamento and was published in the Diário de Lisboa, in 1935.Mistico (talk) 16:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Image alignment
My monitor has a very wide screen and the quotes and images are all out of whack--some of the quotes are appearing three sections below their actual placement, and there's a huge empty space between the heading "list of heteronyms" and the table--thanks to the images and quotes spilling over from previous sections. I noticed that when I make my screen more narrow, the alignment improves, but is there a way to set those quotes and images so they stay aligned to their proper sections? Aristophanes 68  (talk)  01:12, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * To whomever just adjusted the images--it looks better already--thanks! Aristophanes 68   (talk)  02:51, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Works classification by genre
I find it necessary to have a classification of Fernando Pessoa's works. This could be an usual classification regardless of the name the works were published under, or a table (using genres as rows and heteronyms as columns, or the other way round).-Ignacio Agulló

Meeting with Cavafy
Fernando Pessoa briefly met the greek poet Constantine Cavafy while travelling to New York via London. The journey was never completed as news of the stock market crash of 1929 arrived. This is explained in the documentary movie "The night Fernando Pessoa met Constantine Cavafy". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coldpac (talk • contribs) 17:04, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Boxes
This article was quite plagued by a host of boxes including quotes placed there with no introduction, just as decoration. The result was barely readable and confused the reader. I tried to implement the main ones as quotes internally, and removed many including poems put there just to put something, and that should be instead more properly read at Wikiquote I think. --&#39;&#39;&#39;Attilios&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 09:30, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

death?
Shouldn't there be something in here on how/where/etc he died? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:41E3:CA00:A52A:419E:3EB7:D0E9 (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Good question!
 * His death is usually considered to be due to cirrhosis, but some suggest pancreatitis or other ailments.
 * The "cirrhosis" cause was removed anonymously in Special:Diff/627441269, and I've restored it (and mentioned dispute) in Special:Diff/813255909.
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 19:02, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

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Date format
Dear fellow editors, The first editor who provided a full date (here) used the dmy format, which is the European format appropriate for Portugal. I will therefore restore that format, per MOS:DATEVAR and MOS:DATETIES, respectively. Thank you. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 10:44, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:07, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Pessoabaixa.jpg

Bom sucesso ele sim foi um grande escritor admiro muito e me inspiro
Vida 105.168.205.46 (talk) 23:05, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Rosicrucianism
He is included in the Rosicrucians category, but are there good sources on his involvement, and which of the many Rosicrucian Orders he may have belonged to? AnandaBliss (talk) 17:35, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

PLAY ABOUT PESSOA AND HIS THREE MAIN HETERONYMS
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001t2jn Roycross56 (talk) 21:38, 6 January 2024 (UTC)