Talk:Ferranti/Archives/2015

Ferranti effect?
Here is no talk about Ferranti effect. Why?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.175.102.250 (talk • contribs) 13:47, 27 January 2005

Who designed the MEG?
Computers - did Ferranti in fact _design_ the MEG, or only develop it (into the Mercury) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Linuxlad (talk • contribs) 17:06, 22 April 2005


 * Meg was designed and built by Manchester University, and then Mercury was its commercial version (using a core store rather than Williams tubes).
 * The only machine ever designed by Ferranti themselves was Orion (which needs a mention on the site, which I will shortly do).
 * I believe Hugh McGregor Ross was the guiding force behind the paper tape code. What is the evidence that Ivan Idelson was involved? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clerew (talk • contribs) 21:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Company name and logo
The name Ferranti International and the associated logo was only a very brief episode in Ferranti's history. Ironically in the light of subsequent events that logo was commonly described as "three sausages on a plate, with two about to fall off".

For many years the company logo was simply FERRANTI in Times New Roman capitals. I can provide a scan of various Ferranti logos.

The first sentence and logo require revision. GilesW (talk) 22:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oooo! Please do! (And if you can cite that alternative logo name, great!) -- EdJogg (talk) 12:21, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Tim Berners-Lee
"Tim Berners-Lee, acknowledged as the founder of the World Wide Web, is the son of two people who worked on the Ferranti Mark 1."

Removed through being uncited, well, try these:
 * http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2000/11/30/177607/Meet-the-man-who-invented-the-Web-Tim-Berners-Lee.htm
 * http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2001/01/04/178002/sentimental-journey-for-inventor-of-the-internet.htm
 * http://www.livinginternet.com/w/wi_lee.htm

(BTW - Both these pre-date this article by some years)

There is potential for linking from Tim's article to here.

Also note that the disputed 'fact' is also mentioned in Conway Berners-Lee and Mary Lee Woods, the articles for both Tim's parents. I don't see why this history cannot be incorporated under a 'legacy' section -- Ferranti's early computers were pioneers.

EdJogg (talk) 00:27, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment regarding heavy engineering business
In-article comment added by anon editor (see bold text, my highlighting):
 * High voltage power transformers became an important product for Ferranti; some of the largest types weighed over a hundred tons. Ferranti built a new power transformer works at Hollinwood in the late 1940s; however, the orders the company had hoped for did not materialize, and the transformer division closed in 1979, severing the last link Ferranti had with heavy electrical engineering. [I worked at Ferranti Engineering Holdings Limited in the early 1980s - the business consisted of container handling and tapchanger (transformer part) manufacture and purchase and resale of agricultural machinery.]

Text removed from article to here for future reference. -- EdJogg (talk) 11:51, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Wot - no research?
The MOSI in Manchester has a huge archive of primary source material on this firm. Why is most of this narrative anecdotal? Weiterbewegung (talk) 21:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Primary source material isn't really much use to us, ideally we need reliable secondary sources. Malleus Fatuorum 14:46, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Otherwise just make it up, I suppose? Weiterbewegung (talk) 14:59, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Are those the only two options that you can imagine? Like it or not, wikipedia is a tertiary source and must rely on secondary sources. Interpretation of primary sources would be classified as original research. In Ferranti's case there appears to be a fair amount of reliable secondary material available, so it's not exactly rocket science. Malleus Fatuorum 16:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

'there appears to be a fair amount of reliable secondary material available' yes, but there are only three secondary sources cited here; the ones that I have cited. There are others, but can you find them? I doubt it, as you are obviously uncertain about what does, and does not, constitute a primary source. Weiterbewegung (talk) 16:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd strongly suggest that you consider calming down mister, as it is very clear that there is a great deal that you do not yet understand. Malleus Fatuorum 17:27, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Not Mister; Doctor. Is this a threat of some kind? Weiterbewegung (talk) 19:23, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, could you please define 'tertiary source'? Weiterbewegung (talk) 19:53, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Certainly doctor. My dictionary defines the word "tertiary" as "third in degree". In other words, we have the primary sources such as documents produced by the company itself, secondary sources such as the book Ferranti: A History, Building a Family Business, 1882–1975, which provide an interpretation, analysis, and commentary on those primary sources, and then tertiary sources such as wikipedia or indeed any other general encyclopedia, which reflect those secondary sources. Malleus Fatuorum 20:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats what I thought, waffle waffle. Weiterbewegung (talk) 22:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Then let me share with you what I think. The most cursory of glances at your contribution history would lead any disinterested observer to the conclusion that a more appropriate username for you might be Mr Angry. How many other editors have you been in dispute with today alone? And really, throwing a putative PhD around as if it's likely to impress anyone is just plain childish. Please feel free to abandon this article to its fate without your help and go be angry somewhere else. Malleus Fatuorum 00:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * PS. My wife has a PhD (a real one) and lectured at the MMU for several years, so don't try and bullshit me. Malleus Fatuorum 00:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, I was going to do just that, but in spite of your personal attacks, and in the interests of proper history, I've decided to stick around and help you with your Ferranti project. Weiterbewegung (talk) 11:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Pretty disgraceful stuff
This article is so poorly compiled, so shoddily researched, and so badly written that I do not wish to be associated with it in any way whasoever.Weiterbewegung (talk) 12:05, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You're not associated with it in any way though are you? In general, the best way to improve an article is to, well, improve it yourself. Throwing tantrums because someone else hasn't done the work to your satisfaction really isn't very helpful, or likely to end with a good result. Malleus Fatuorum 16:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

No, I only added the parts that make sense. Weiterbewegung (talk) 16:22, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I see. Malleus Fatuorum 17:26, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Copyright violations
I have reverted this article to remove copyright violations from this Masters' thesis. I am sorry about the minor edits that I undid in the process. I will also be rewriting the second paragraph, since it is an exact duplicate of this. It hasn't been easy to figure out which came first, but just to be on the safe side I will reword it.Slp1 (talk) 18:46, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Omissions and extra bits 'n' pieces
I worked for Ferranti in Edinburgh from May 1974 to May 1991, so I can add a few odds and sods.

The article misses out the near collapse of Ferranti in the mid or late 1970's. The company had a cash-flow problem of some description, so went cap-in-hand to the then-Labour government. Harold Wilson bailed us out to the tune of about £20 million (it was reported), but set conditions. The company became part-owned by the government, meaning we were part-nationalised (making me a sort-of civil servant), and installed a bloke called DEREK ALUN-JONES as Managing Director, or something similar. In Edinburgh, he acquired the nick-name Indy Alun-Jones! Pathetic, but true! Alun-Jones got us out of the mire, and we got better. Two de Ferranti brothers, Basil and Sebastian, were retained as joint chairmen, but they were pure window dressing. Basil took little interest in Ferranti and left the scene, but Sebastian (nick-named Zebedee by us - Basil & Zebedee were characters in "The Magic Roundabout") undertook his Chairman responsibilities with more vigour than Basil, and took a far more active part. He actually visited South Gyle 1 in 1979, along with othe company dignitaries - I know - I was working there at the time! I disgraced myself by breaking wind in his presence!!! One of the brothers (Basil? Can't remember) was a Tory M.P. - I think his constituency was in the Lancaster-Morecambe area.

Some time after the Conservatives acquired power in 1979, the Industry Secretary, Keith Joseph, found out that the government had a share-holding in Ferranti. When Maggie Thatcher heard about this, she wanted rid of them quick. Arnold Weinstock's GEC was waiting to pounce, allegedly just to acquire our military laser work. Pressure was applied, some of it from the Trade Unions, to take a different line. This partly succeeded, and the share-holding was (I think) acquired by the Rothschilds, with the intention of slowly releasing the shares onto the market, to prevent a take-over. Some discounted shares were made available to the Ferranti work-force.

Despite being advised NOT to take over International Signal & Control by a firm of accountants (Peat, Marwick McLintock???????) who smelt a rat, Alun-Jones went ahead with the takeover, arguing that the bigger Ferranti became, the more resistant they became to being taken-over.

We heard about the 'end' in late 1989 when Ferranti shares ceased trading. When they came back on the market, the value plummeted. Alun-Jones did his best to clean up the mess, but threw in the towel and walked away with a reported pay-off of £500,000. In spring 1990, Ferranti won the development contract for the radar for the Eurofighter for £20 million (I think). The very next day, Ferranti Defence Systems (including the radar division) was sold to GEC for an estimated £315 million.

I believe that some of the children of the de Ferranti people kept the name going by forming a Venture Capital company. There is still a www.ferranti.com site.

As well as Crewe Toll, there were (as reported) sites at Robertson Avenue (formerly a McVitie's Biscuit factory), Silverknowes, South Gyle (2 sites) and Granton (Bellesk House). There were smaller sites at Turnhouse Airport, Tantallon (somewhere in East Lothian), West Shore Road (a wire store???) and something at Angle Park Terrace. Crewe Toll was (still is) in 2 parts. The site on the east of Crewe Road was the factory, where radar equipment was manufactured. The west side was a research and design facility, simply called 'Crewe Toll Labs'.

I admit that what I've written will probably be called "remeniscences", but someone could pick out the interesting bits of this nostalgia(!) and expand on it.

Nick (Taffy) Hewitt, formerly of Robbie Ave (May '74 - Sept '75), Crewe Toll (Sept '75 - Jan '78), South Gyle 1 (Jan '78 - Nov '79) and Robbie Ave again (Nov '79 - May '91, when I was made redundant)

Taff Hewitt (talk) 22:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Did Ferranti have any involvement in GEC's Chelmsford radar plant? Or did that come purely from the GEC side? (I know nothing of Ferranti before the merger) Andy Dingley (talk) 21:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, the part of Ferranti I worked for had no link with GEC Chelmsford. The ONLY link Ferranti had with the radar side of GEC that I'm aware of was the sub-contracting of the Transmitter and Scanner LRUs of the Foxhunter Radar system of the Tornado F3 aircraft to Ferranti. On this issue, I THINK that our department (Test Equipment Group) dealt with a GEC plant in Milton Keynes. Again, I THINK GEC Chelmsford made ground-based and/or ship-board radar systems, rather than the airborne variety. Taff Hewitt (talk) 15:33, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Link rot
This article seems to be suffering from a high degree of Link rot. I found the following links do not work 2,3,4,7,8,10,11,13,21,23,24. It might be possible to attempt some repairs but most likely, some better referencing is required which may require some re-writing.CV9933 (talk) 12:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Regarding the links problem, I intend to re-write the Beginnings section to accommodate new references and delete the reference (also known as Ferranti-Packard) which is incorrect. Ferranti Packard can and should be re-introduced further down the article. I would also recommend (Rapid Growth) title be changed to Expansion or similar and do some re writing here to add references and remove some inaccuracies, e.g. Ferranti Limited was formed in 1901 to buy out S. Z. de Ferranti, not renamed in 1905 when brought out of receivership.CV9933 (talk) 10:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sir Vincent de Ferranti became chairman in 1930 until 1963 and this was a significant period for Ferranti growth/expansion. No mention of him in this article or on Wikipedia, but actually a separate article for him would be better as it would get too cluttered here.CV9933 (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Now added article Vincent Ziani de Ferranti — Preceding unsigned comment added by CV9933 (talk • contribs) 10:58, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find references for this section, citation template dated 2010:

''Ferranti built a new power transformer works at Hollinwood in the late 1940s; however, the orders the company had hoped for did not materialize, and the transformer division closed in 1979, severing the last link Ferranti had with heavy electrical engineering. In the early 1980s, Ferranti Engineering Holdings Limited's business consisted of container handling and tapchanger (transformer part) manufacture, and the purchase and resale of agricultural machinery.'' I propose to rewrite this section leaving the wording here for future refrence.
 * Update- I have repaired/replaced many of the links mentioned above. Only a couple of links were found to be archived by archive.is but these couldn't be included in the article as WP seems undecided about using this service.Archive.is RFC I propose to delete the Bloodhound citation as this links to an advertising site.CV9933 (talk) 21:44, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * All links now good. Replaced blacklisted links detected by Cyberbot II, tag should be removed by bot automatically.CV9933 (talk) 20:34, 9 April 2015 (UTC)