Talk:Ferron

article was a wreck
This article was a wreck. There was a ton of biased comments about brilliant poetry yadda yadda, and there were also very long quotes that were followed by a parenthesised name. There's a big arse list of alleged "citations" at the bottom, but nothing tied them into the rest of the article in any way. This needs some serious clean-up. Pacian 01:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

the ferron page
The editing and editorial notes by Pacien assisted to focus the text and to highlight sentences that required additional citations. My contributions to the article are based on over a decade of research and drawn from her Catalogue Raisonné. In the social sciences, the parenthetical citation (author last name and year of publication) is the preferred scholarly apparatus. Those parenthetical citations that appear in the text of the article relate to the alphabetized listing of the references cited at the bottom of the page.

Article sucks
Needs to sound like an encyclopedia, not a PR piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.142.52.121 (talk) 22:04, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Ferron photo for Driver Album 1994.jpg

Photo and Early Years
I'm interested in working on this article and developing some of its sections more. I'd like to find a better photo, one that perhaps more exemplifies Ferron's aesthetic. Also, I think the late 70s/early 80s are sparsely covered and I would like to find some more sources to help fill out that portion. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to address this? Justinkrivers (talk) 14:17, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I found some great articles about her early career in Vancouver, including a review of her first album and several feature articles, all prior to the recording of her third album. Will be adding some material to that section soon. Just wondering though--is there a better way to structure the article? It seems to me as if it might be worthwhile to carve out sections specifically for major album miletones and bring some detail to their contents/reception/impact etc. Thoughts? Justinkrivers (talk) 14:43, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds great to me. Thanks for working on this! Clayoquot (talk &#124; contribs) 15:39, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

New Photo
I have a more recent photo with clear rights, any objections if I update from the current one? I'd also love to find some vintage promo photos. Does anyone know of anything in public domain? Ideally it would be great to have a photo or two from different eras. I see vintage press photos floating around but I am unclear about rights for those. They tend to be released for use but not always. Justinkrivers (talk) 16:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The photo was deleted but I'm not sure why. I am trying to figure it out and when it gets reinstated I will re-add it to the article. Justinkrivers (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Women's Press Gang debut
The text says her debut performance was at a benefit for "Women's Press Gang" and that's often what I see in other articles, but the name of the organization seems to be just "Press Gang". Their archives don't say "Women's" as part of their name. I am inclined to change it. I've also read that her debut event took place at Simon Fraser University but I don't have a really great source for that. Would love to find more specific coverage and clarity on the date, which is usually 1975 but sometimes a year or so off. Justinkrivers (talk) 15:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

First Nations categories
As Bohemian Baltimore recently removed the two First Nations categories (without, I note, engaging in good faith with the article editors first) I want to flag the First Nations categorization for further development here in the proper channels. Their contention is that the article space here must prove enrollment in a First Nations nation in order to justify the category. According to WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Determining Native American and Indigenous Canadian identities the rubric of citizenship is correct. I'm looking for sources to iron this out here (again, in the proper place to discuss). Citizenship rosters are not generally public, of course. I have a few citations I can add documenting Ferron's inclusion in various First Nations exhibits and First Nations exclusive festivals and coverage in First Nations press. Anyone with further thoughts on the subject?Justinkrivers (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2024 (UTC)


 * @Justinkrivers The article says she claims to be Métis. Her quote is ambiguous. Is it a wish to be First Nations? Is she claiming to be both Métis and First Nations? Is she too ignorant to know the difference between Métis and First Nations? Even if she is Métis, that wouldn't automatically make her FN. Métis people are Indigenous, but not First Nations. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 20:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Bohemian Baltimore, usually on wikipedia we discuss changes in a talk page and try to work together to develop the article more, before unilaterally making edits, and typically we look at citable sources in the form of published articles, newspapers and the like, to support the content. Do you have any suggestions that can contribute to our further development of this section? For example, a different category that might be more appropriate? Or perhaps some journalistic sources that might help us to add to the entry? Personally, I don't have any insight as to whether she is "too ignorant to know the difference"...perhaps you have some citations that can speak to that? Justinkrivers (talk) 20:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Justinkrivers I have not seen any sources indicating that she is a member of either the Métis Nation or of any First Nations bands. The available sources seem to say she grew up in a white working-class family and that she claims she discovered Métis ancestry later in life. In the source used for the article she also claims her siblings have Métis "papers" - papers from whom or from what? The Métis Nation? Some random non-profit organization claiming to be Métis? - but that she does not. I have not seen any sources from any Métis Nation or First Nations band source claiming her. Her participation in Indigenous events is not proof of anything, as many such events and organizations accept attendance or membership based purely on self-identification. Elsewhere, she is referred to as either being of "Cree and Ojibway" heritage or of being "part Cree Indian and part Blackfoot". It is unclear whether she identifies with any Cree, Ojibwe, and/or Blackfoot First Nation or tribe or if she identifies as a Métis person who has Cree, Ojibwe, and Blackfoot ancestry. Likely the later? But who knows. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Does the Talking Stick Festival admit participants based on self-identification? What about the curators of the National Music Centre, do they fact check participants? Justinkrivers (talk) 15:53, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Bohemian Baltimore and do you have suggestions for credible reporting from First Nations or Métis journalist sources that would be likely to have fact checked such claims? Justinkrivers (talk) 15:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Justinkrivers The National Music Centre isn't an Indigenous-run organization. I don't know about Talking Stick. I'll call them. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 16:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Does an organization (or journalistic source for that matter) have to be Indigenous-run in order to fact check a claim of enrollment? Justinkrivers (talk) 16:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

"Canadian-born?"
In the lede it says that she is "canadian-born." Does she live somewhere else? Is there any reason it doesn't just say "Canadian?" PersusjCP (talk) 21:09, 16 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I've got newspaper articles that talk about her living in Canada, then moving to the United States, but then later sources have her living in Canada so this may be carried over from when she lived in the US? I think she lives in Canada again but not certain.Justinkrivers (talk) 21:24, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Per MOS:CITIZEN it should probably be just "Canadian" especially since that's from where she is famous, that's her citizenship, and her identity. PersusjCP (talk) 21:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yep I agree, will change Justinkrivers (talk) 21:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)