Talk:Fettuccine Alfredo/Archive 1

(Untitled)
Parsley? I've never heard of it as an essential ingredient in Alfredo sauce. Anyone have proof? Kent Wang 21:49, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I always thought parsley was optional - AKeen 21:05, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

alla Carbonara
Just adding bacon does not make it "alla Carbonara" Eggs are an essential ingredient and many versions do not include cream. Calling "alla carbonara" alfredo sauce with bacon is wrong.


 * I completely agree. Also, it's important to inform people in this article that Alfredo is essentially American food, not Italian.72.78.154.193 (talk) 06:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Lelio/Lello
Someone recently changed the inventor from Alfredo di Lelio to Alfredo di Lello. Both turn up hits on google - Anyone know the correct spelling? - AKeen 21:05, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * di Lelio is correct, I believe. At least it is spelled that way on the Alfredo's website. - Athos23 17:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * di Lelio is also the way it is spelled in the New York Times article referred to but not cited untiul I added it. I really do wish contributers would do their own research Mike Hayes (talk) 01:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Recipe
The infredients are mentionned but that's it. How about a recipe and more importantly instructions on how to make the sauce?


 * How-to articles are not considered appropriate in Wikipedia. I have added a link to the Cookbook article. Mike Hayes (talk) 01:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Alfredo Sauce
It is sheer, easily disproven fallacy to claim that there is no such thing as alfredo sauce, only fettuccine alfredo.

All you have to do is go to any grocery store. They sell the sauce.

You can put alfredo sauce on any noodle, 'though it doesn't work well with spaghetti-type noodles, needing more surface area. It does do well on, say, penne and other hollow noodles. But, at the very least, it works on linguine almost identically to fettuccine. The core article should be Alfredo (dish) or Alfredo (sauce), not Fettuccine Alfredo. I'm sure some chefs think it can ONLY be the latter, but that's just their narrow view. This isn't a science, where we only define according to some authority. If people and food distributors refer to the sauce separately, then it is separate. Kaz 17:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I guess you're right that we need to present "Alfredo sauce" on an equal footing with "fettuccine alfredo", since it was after all made famous in the US. On the other hand, I don't agree about injecting POV and advice to use a particular brand of butter (I like Plugra, but it only has 3% more fat, anyway).  I am not sure what is meant by "using... Parmigiano Reggiano cheese instead of ... parmesan": I guess to use real Parmesan rather than US-made imitations?  But the article already talks about the common substitution of imitations.  As for "This creates a very rich sauce that might horrify fat-watchers, but thrills devout Italian food fanatics and low-carb dieters" -- this is pure editorializing, which isn't WP style, and neither is "an excessive amount" of cheese. --Macrakis 20:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, I've thought a little about this, and I think you're right. We need to hold our noses and deal with reality regardless of how revolting it is.  The fact is, as you say, most Americans have never tasted anything like the original fettuccine alfredo, and for them, the version that comes from a bottle with starch thickening and ersatz cheeses is fettuccine alfredo.  The fact that Italians don't think of pasta dishes as composed of pasta plus a separate sauce is irrelevant; we need to deal with mass-market American food habits. The question is how to present the evolution from the original fettuccine alfredo, which was just di Lelio's fancy name for a rich fettuccine al burro prepared at table, to the current American dish. I suppose we should put in the context of American eating trends: mass-market chain faux-Italian restaurants (PappaRazzi's, Olive Garden, etc.); convenience foods (as though fettuccine al burro was hard to make from scratch!) made industrially with low-quality ingredients, and all that.  To do this the WP way, we'll need to find good sources, though, not rely on our personal opinions. John Hess would no doubt have had a choice word or two.... Ideas? --Macrakis 21:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

At www.foonews.net, Filipo wrote ythe following:

"le fettuccine al burro...(doppio, triplo..)

sono piu' recenti e non fanno parte della tradizione romana, ma sono un piatto di un ristorante romano (alfredo). poi sono piu' famose perche' venivano servite con una forchetta d'oro che per il piatto in se"

"Fetuccine al burro (double, triple ...)

is very recent and is not part of the Roman tradition, but is a dish from a Roman restaurant (Alfredo). It is famous because it was served with a gold fork ..."

Mike Hayes (talk) 02:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the redirect from Alfredo sauce is inappropriate. Alfredo sauce, as sold in the United States, is a distinct product. Fred Talk 18:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Ingredients
The article heading mentions the sauce containing Parmesan cheese, butter, and heavy cream. Our current "history" section mentions adding more butter to the older recipe, but it does not mention how the cheese or cream were added to make Fettuccine Alfredo. This should be explained. Thomprod (talk) 16:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I found a reference saying that Americans added the cream to the recipe, but the source is a blacklisted website. Thomprod (talk) 14:21, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Popularity
I'm italian and I added to the text the main caratteristic of this receipe: it's by far much more popular in USA than in his homeland Italy. Like for "Latte" and "spaghetti with meatballs" this food is considered in Italy "poor simple stuff" you make at home and you hardly find them in restaurants or cafè. Alfredo himself have prepared this first for his sick wife at home. Anyway in Italy it is usually not known as "Pasta Alfredo" but like a variant of "Pasta al burro"/"Pasta in bianco" (means respectively "Pasta with butter" and "Pasta in White") these are usually prepared with less butter than the Alfredo one and rarely with cream (in my experience all american versions of italian receipes have more cream than the italian ones). Corrado PS Put bacon in "Alfredo sauce" and call it "Pasta alla carbonara" it is not only wrong, I guess you could be arrested in Italy!!!:D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.145.139.13 (talk) 08:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone correct my correction this way: In Italy, though fettuccine al burro is widely known, the name 'alfredo' and the American variants with chicken, vegetables, and so on are unknown. The last part of the sentences is absolutely wrong! All pasta in north of Italy (let's say from Emilia Romagna to alps) is with butter. If the sentences was true in North Italy we do not know any pasta with vegetables? And, anyway, Fettucine Alfredo is a variation of the Fettucine al burro it is not exctly the same stuff. The quantity of butter is different. Therefore I make a correction to the sentences. If somebody does not agree and could make it better ok but please be polite explain how and why.Do not put wrong sentences without citation. Corrado —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.145.139.13 (talk) 17:53, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to explain better: no Italian would ever spend money for a meal in a restaurant to eat simply boiled pasta with a chunk of butter and a bit of grated Parmigiano tossed on it. That's something anyone would cook for themselves coming home after an hard day at word and without the energy or time to do anything more complex.
 * Apart from that, I'm sure that most Romans finding themselves in that situation, would rather prepare and eat agio, olio e peperoncino. Butter is used mostly in the North.--Dia^ (talk) 21:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

This is international cooking, not Italian
This dish simply does not exist in Italy, it might be a personal invention of a local restaurant in Rome, but you can find this stuff all arond the wrorld apart Italy. This is reallt odd! Ask all italians you meet on the road and for "fettucini alfredo" (gosh, 108.000 hits on google!) they will look at you like an alien. I am Italian and I knew about the existence of this dish traveling in Germany. Kind regards --57.90.36.29 (talk) 11:27, 4 June 2010 (UTC) The article should reflect the fact that not a single italian who hasn't been abroad knows of the existence of this dish and that it is not part of italian tradition.
 * I absolutely agree. I'm Italian and I first heard of "Fettuccine Alfredo" travelling to the USA. It is definitely not a typical Italian dish, not even in Rome. --TheLoneTraveller (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree: Fettuccine Alfredo is not a tipical italian dish, it could probably be a "name substitution" usually done in italian restaurants... The fact that "fettuccine alfredo" is not present in italian version of Wikipedia should be relevant to highlight this fact... It is a US creation, not italian.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.236.47.196 (talk) 10:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Wrong. As the article says, the dish is nothing more than Fettuccine al burro e parmigiano, a staple food, at least in Rome. If there is something that is not Italian, is the name. The dish is not present in the Italian Wikipedia because it is too simple to deserve an article. moreover, I don`t agree on the categorization in the Italian-American cuisine. It is an Italian dish, its origin is well documented (it is present on some among the most important books about roman cuisine) and the fact that it is immensely popular in the States is not enough to make of it an Italian-American dish. I think that an Italian-American dish can be defined as a dish that has been created by the Italian community in the US or has evolved from an Italian one. Alex2006 (talk) 17:19, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm Italian and know very well italian food, this name is a clear misnomer used only outside Italy for a very common dish. I tried to specify this in the main article but got reverted and this feels like a wrong doing. It must be clear on wikipedia that maybe an italian knows better about Italy than an American. Why is it not possible to clear this FACT: "This name is NEVER used in Italy and every italian who hears it ridicules it"? Whoever had the courage to undo this truth should come here to Rome (Italy) and check. This is the end of Wikipedia, where an ignorant mass of people believe to know better than a well-informed minority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.216.49 (talk) 12:48, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Dear ip, the fact that you "are Italian and knows very well Italian food" means nothing. Wikipedia works with reliable sources, and the sources (among them, Luigi Carnacina and Vincenzo Buonassisi: as Italian I am sure that you know both of them) describes well the history of the dish in Rome . Moreover, reading what you wrote above, I don't understand yet what is you find not ok. Could you explain better what is wrong in the article? Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 18:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

"A" in "Alfredo" should be capitalized
I moved the page from "Fettuccine alfredo" to "Fettuccine Alfredo" as the "A" is always capitalized (cf. fettuccine Alfredo, etc.). --MZMcBride (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Quotes section
Hi. I removed the "Quotes" section from the article in this edit:

This content probably belongs at Wikiquote or somewhere like that. It doesn't belong in this article unless the quote is particularly notable. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought it was a great explanation to the hoi polloi of defining the dish and providing a smile to the in crowd; but I'll accept your decision. Thank you very much for your courtesy of notifying me.Foofbun (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Fettuccine and cream in Rome
I recently came across an interesting passage in an Italian book which confirms that fettuccine all'uovo were served with "burro e crema di latta" in Rome (among many other styles): 'frasi', Ristoranti a Roma, A.B.E.T.E. 1967, p. 52. The cheese seems to be taken for granted. --Macrakis (talk) 22:59, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Inconsistent with Italian Wikipedia
This article is total nonsense in trying to attribute this dish to Italy, or even the city of Rome. At that, mentioning old fashioned American movie stars Pickford and Fairbanks is an interesting anecdotal story for American interests and possibly explains how this recipe took to popularity here in the United States, but it in no way makes for an adequate explanation of how this should be attributed to Rome or Italy itself, especially when most Italians themselves don't even identify with the dish, or even recognize it whatsoever, and that this attribution would have originated ages ago in what's rather irrelevant to Italian culture and history. Heck, even many Italian-Americans can fathom that this is the silliest attribution and that Alfredo Sauce is nothing more than a bechamel sauce with likes of imitation Kraft parmesan cheese added into it rather than a French cheese in Mornay-style sauce. A proper Italian "pasta al burro" has no bechamel, and no cream or flour. It's just "burro fuso" (or emulsified butter) with "real" grated Parmigiano Reggiano. And it's typically served to children, or persons who are seeking comfort food when sick. Most Italians would scoff at the idea of Alfredo sauce on pasta, aside from requesting "pasta al burro" at a formal dinner table with adults.

All one needs do is take a look a the Italian Wikipedia translation which reads: "Alfredo fettuccine have become a widespread dish in Italian American restaurants in the United States and a symbol of "Italianness" [8] ; the recipe, however, is not that of the Roman restaurant of Alfredo Di Lelio, but a variant that involves the use of cream (instead of the creamy butter originally intended) [5] and other ingredients, such as chicken breast, that little or nothing they have to do with the original.

The fettuccine Alfredo are practically the same thing as butter and cheese or butter and Parmesan pasta, one of the oldest and most simple ways to season pasta. This recipe, known in Italy as "white pasta", with oil instead of butter, a little garlic and pepper, is consumed at home, especially when there are small children [9]. Despite the Italian origins, the name "fettuccine Alfredo" is practically unknown in Italy [10], usually this type of pasta is reported almost exclusively in the menus of tourist restaurants." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.202.143.106 (talk) 10:38, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://genius.com/Captainsparklez-revenge-lyrics. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, provided it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 20:26, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

[Untitled comment]
I would like to add some important distinctions: in Italy "pasta al burro" is usually something home cooked and served when people is sick, using whatever pasta, long or short, you like and dressed with butter, typically melted. Pasta in bianco is pasta without any sauce, dressed only with butter or even just plain oil, typically olive oil. None of these two is prepared using pasta all'uovo but instead using just regular pasta. Pasta all'uovo is traditionally in the shape of fettuccine but fettuccine are NOT made only with eggs! Infact they're often used in recipes with fish, where nobody would ever dare to use pasta all'uovo! Pasta all'uovo is better served with creamy sauces and, indeed, at least in Northern Italy cream (panna da cucina) is found in any grocery store and used in many recipes. Therefore is very much possible that someone, may be even the original mr Alfredo, may have added some cream in the recipe, although I'd say this is not at all common in Italy. Last, I wholeheartedly disagree with the definition of comfort food: in Italy pasta al burro, or in bianco, is more something you serve to a sick person, in the assumption they couldn't retain and digest a proper sauce, than a comfort food. Which would, in case, be pasta served with "aglio, olio e peperoncino", i.e. garlic, oil and hot pepper flakes. Or, expecially in the Rome area, what is called "pasta al cacio", using caciocavallo cheese melted in some oil. Back to pasta al burro, I've never seen it prepared with pasta all'uovo, only with regular pasta. From the WP article it seems that the recipe, as served in the restaurant, was calling for pasta all'uovo: if so it would have been, in my opinion, an evolution from the original recipe, dictated to add to the richness of the dish. If that's the case, it would also be improper if not plainly incorrect to state that fettuccine Alfredo are, in Italy, pasta al burro: they are not, expecially considering how the Alfredo sauce has evolved in the US vs. the original dish of pasta al burro. In case it would be more correct to state that fettuccine Alfredo have evolved, in the US, from a recipe that in Italy is simply pasta al burro. Thanks Renato — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:601:400:A1E0:B581:4B19:3EF1:27A (talk) 09:17, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

this isn't an italian dish at all
this dish only exists in the USA, it was created in New York, it is not available in ANY italian restaurant anywhere in europe, let alone italy

and, more important, it goes against the whole idea of italian food, italians don't put cream in their pasta !

im editing the first line of this article, find a restaurant any restaurant in italy that serves this disgusting dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martijn Scheffer (talk • contribs) 21:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Totally agree with you....there is no Fettuccine Alfredo Dish in Europe/Italy its American like Spaghetti and Meatballs,been to Italy and people never heart of Fettuccine Alfredo before...its just marketing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.199.228.211 (talk) 09:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC) Yes you're right. It is 100% not Italian. --79.19.219.156 (talk) 17:44, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Please read the article and try to understand what is written in it. Alex2006 (talk) 18:06, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in some kind of American propaganda/ignorance or such. Just write it is Italian-American. If you ask for this dish in an Italian restaurant in Italy no one even knows what it is... --79.19.219.156 (talk) 18:21, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Not true: you can ask in Via della Scrofa or in Piazza Augusto Imperatore in Rome, and they will know it all too well. And being a variation of fettuccine al burro (as the article says), in Italy it is prepared everywhere. And since "origin" of a dish denotes where the dish was attested for the first time, origin of Fettuccine Alfredo is Italy. Alex2006 (talk) 06:06, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok we have a couple (yet only 2!) touristy restaurants who do it. Otherwise it is called everywhere "pasta al burro", so at least the name should be changed if we want to insert it in the "Italian cuisine" template. Its origins may be in Italy, but now it is an Italian-American dish, especially as in the US there are dozens of variations with nothing in common with the original pasta al burro recipe.--82.55.136.167 (talk) 10:00, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * They are not two touristy (?) restaurants, but two tradition restaurants (one 110 years old, the other 70) competing for the invention of the dish: and both also have faithful roman customers that go there to eat pasta all'alfredo. The dish was born in Rome, there is no discussion about this in both Italian and American sources, and pasta al burro was first attested in Italy, therefore it is an Italian dish. About the diffusion, again, it is not a dish of Italian American cuisine (like pizza, another dish born in Italy but now an integral part of American culinary culture), but of American cuisine, Italian Americans have nothing to do with its diffusion.
 * The only thing worth discussing is the name change in the template: this would make sense, but since pasta al burro in America is known as pasta alfredo (and on Wikipedia we only have one article for both denominations), because of WP:COMMONNAME the name of the dish on the wiki:en Template must remain pasta alfredo, even if for an Italian (I am Italian - roman - too)  this sounds strange (but not stranger than "I would like to buy a cannoli" :-)). Alex2006 (talk) 11:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * look at this edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fettuccine_Alfredo&diff=prev&oldid=1219144501. JacktheBrown (talk) 02:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Multiple issues banner
I don't agree that this article is in such bad shape as to need a "multiple issues" banner. It is in the normal state of a Wikipedia article, being edited and debated by multiple editors. It already covers the major points: Could it be expanded? -- sure! Could the English be improved? -- I don't see any flagrant problems requiring copy editing. Could someone point them out? --Macrakis (talk) 21:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * What the dish is.
 * Who invented it.
 * How it was prepared originally.
 * That the name "fettuccine alfredo" is essentially unknown in Italy.
 * That "fettuccine al burro" is pretty much the same thing.
 * That variants in the US version include ingredients that are never found in Italy.
 * Various stories about it (with sources), like the golden silverware.


 * Removed (by editor who placed the tags). No offence intended (noting, with great respect and appreciation, that you've been at it since 2006).
 * [NB: Banner was added in the context of the many points recently discussed above (from "Fettuccine Alfredo and fettuccine al burro aren't the same dish" onwards), and was intended in part to signal the impending edits. Much of this work has now been implemented.]
 * Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 21:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * PS: In my view, your bullet points above confirm that much of the needed work (per discussion) has been successfully implemented. Nice progression! Thanks, , , , et al. I'm also now wondering what it would take to get this article to GA status (or "Level 5 Vital" status per Lasagna)? Rater says its "B Class" now, but I don't have much experience with the higher rating criteria. Any advice? -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC)