Talk:Fiat Serbia

Foundation date
The official website mentions that the automobile section within the factory was inaugurated in 1904. It says that they made repeairs and manufacture of car parts, and that in 1939 they begin anssembling Chevrolet military trucks, making 400 units until the production was interrupted because of the begining of the Second World War in Yugoslavia in 1941.

Another source (not sure if this one is also the official website) clearly says that after making trucks during the 1930s and that "Zastava will turn toward car production in 1949, when construction of its automobile manufacturing plant begins."

So, we have that the factory exists since 1853, and that the automobile section was formed in 1904, it produced trucks even during the 1930s, and that they turned into car production in 1949. So, why is 1953 considered the foundation date? FkpCascais (talk) 03:59, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927215946/http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/19991217zastnasy.php to http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/19991217zastnasy.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110523042601/http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2006/02/22/20060222-D1-03.html to http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2006/02/22/20060222-D1-03.html

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External links modified
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Tofas nonsense
Apparently, this article has claimed (since January 2008!) that the 750/850 was built by Turkey's Tofas until the 1990s. I have never heard of such a thing, I can find absolutely no evidence thereof, I have never seen such a car in Turkey, and the Turkish Zastava 750 entry mentions nothing of it. The content was originally added by an ip, I have deleted it.  Mr.choppers &#124;  ✎  02:57, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You have never seen an old version of mythical Fiat 600 in Turkey? That was absolutelly nonsense argument... FkpCascais (talk) 17:48, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140702214628/http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=1950s to http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=1950s

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Where is the discussion about splitting the article?
This article makes no sense: its about two subjects, Zastava automobiles, and the assembly plant. It needs to be split. 842U (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

I have split this article in two parts since it is about two independent companies - two legal entities that still exist and history of one is not a history of other. Only common thing between two legal entities is land location where factory is located. Loesorion (talk) 17:39, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120910054405/http://www.zastava-automobili.com/sr/istorijat/istorijat.htm to http://www.zastava-automobili.com/sr/istorijat/istorijat.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141127072122/http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage to http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090329170132/http://www.globalpolitician.com/22058-czech-slovakia-eastern-europe to http://www.globalpolitician.com/22058-czech-slovakia-eastern-europe

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081204000012/http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=1960s to http://zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=1960s
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071007204916/http://www.invest-in-serbia.com/archive/2002_05/2002_05_12_1.htm to http://www.invest-in-serbia.com/archive/2002_05/2002_05_12_1.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141127072207/http://www.zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=2002 to http://www.zastavanacionale.com/Default.aspx?lng=en-us&mode=heritage&id=2002

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Plant or company
FIAT Chrysler Automobiles Serbia is not a plant, but a company registered within Serbia's legal framework (Agency for business registers an other relevant institutions back this claim). Automobile assembly plant is part of company's total equity.-- AirWolf  talk  23:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Subsidiaries and web site
Company FCA Srbija have registered subsidiaries Slobodna Zona FAS d.o.o. together with city of Kragujevac and has official web site fiatsrbija.rs Loesorion (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Loesorion, Thanks for signing your posts. Please sign the post you made on my talk page.  Thanks for your feedback, and I appreciate your helping on the article; together we can really improve it.  This is not warring, it is disagreement.  You obviously don't have a problem with many of the changes to the infobox.  These are the reasons for my changes:  1) It is actually not enough for you to personally say "FCA Srbija have registered subsidiaries Slobodna Zona FAS d.o.o.".  Where is your source? Without a source, it's conjecture or original research on your part, which isn't allowed. 2) The website "fiatsrbija.rs" is the marketing website for ALL Fiat automobiles marketed in Serbia, NOT the website for the company and assembly plant in Kragujevak, which is THE SUBJECT OF THE ARTICLE. 3) It is not standard Wikipedia practice to add referenced notes INSIDE AN INFOBOX.  The article already discusses the name change in the body of the article.  These are items that can be fixed, but there is no website for FCAS.
 * Loesorion, Please discuss the three numbered points above, or I will feel free to revise the infobox accordingly. 842U (talk) 22:54, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * 842U,

You make tens of changes on this web page in short time that could be done in one or few steps. See some guideline for edits on Wikipedia Policies and guidelines and Policies and guidelines. Because of your numerous edits is even hard to revert your changes. You where refereed to this Talk page few times before because of your edits and you did not care to come here and ask for any explanation.

Now that you come here it is nice of you to have you here. Now that you are here I will explain all your disagreements how you now call it, and someone would call that different - it seems to me is like you wanted to have this page just for yourself and your edits.

BTW you have Show preview button at bottom of page that you could use before you made edits so it is good to reduce number of edits using that feature.

About infobox. You have deleted it completely at first. So one may ask what is a point to discuss about single edits if you at first do not understand what is Company Infobox about and why should this page have it? You where noted to go to this Talk page about that and you have not.

And one note before talking further about sources - if you need source you could ask for it before deletion. You have deleted sourced information - what is explanation for that? So you have double standards. If you want to be taken seriously about your good intentions here do not behave in such a manner.

Lets start explaining:
 * 1. Slobodna Zona FAS d.o.o. - read reference
 * 2. fiatsrbija.rs - content of web site does not make it more or less to whom it belongs and whom it represents. If you go at "Informacije o kompaniji" - eng. Information about company - at bottom of main page you will find your answer. Note that I am not obliged to educate here anyone how to read and use given information but for sake of understanding I am doing it now. So if you click on "Informacije o kompaniji" it will show you a window with following information

Kosovska 4, 34000 Kragujevac, Srbija "
 * "FCA Srbija d.o.o.

If company want to give more information then just about a plant on their website it is about them and not about you or me to judge what information someone should have on their own web pages.


 * 3.Where do you read about that standard? There is a footnote in Infobox Company and could be used as it was used.

See Template:Infobox company and read "Use to list citations that validate the data in the infobox or to note information about the terms, names and figures used. " So as I said previously you should first learn what is Infobox Company about and I would have explained that to you earlier if you have come to this Talk Page at time when you were first noted because of you edits and complete deletion of Infobox.
 * footnotes

We are here all to contribute and to learn something from each other but I must note that you come here only after editors war warning. It is not a problem for me to share my knowledge and learn something new and I hope that any future disagreement if they emerges will be solved here as it should be done in first place. Loesorion (talk) 23:33, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * First of all, Kragujevac is pronounced this way: and not with "k" on the end. Second, about subsidiaries - see the information I have left in talk; Third, website is OK. In the bottom of the website presentation, there is information of the company available. It is company's right to present information the way they want. And fourth and last, you've missed the point in your last argument as well. Note was about name change before the page was moved couple days ago. And it was totally OK to be in infobox at the time.-- AirWolf   talk  02:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Financial construction of this Joint Venture
There is official data about financial construction regarding this Joint venture. Part of money was obtained from credit and other is by subsidies of Government of Serbia as stipulated in many reports and disclosed parts of agreement. Loesorion (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Cite your sources.842U (talk) 22:49, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

You have already cited sources in a page that you have deleted few times, you need to read them first before claiming here "Cite your sources". I will add one more here Loesorion (talk) 23:37, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Please, stop acting as owner of Wiki's articles (i.e. FCA Srbija). The official data related to the company can be found on website of the Government of Serbia official business registers agency (APR). In this case (FCA Srbija identification number is 20468122), these are the links: Main info; Financial reports Browser (consolidated) .-- AirWolf  talk  02:27, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

English
Sorry, but this edit is unintelligible in English &mdash; the meaning is not clear &mdash; and needs attention, otherwise it should be removed. If you'd like some help, let me know.
 * "In end of process of financing Government of Serbia invested more than 300 million EUR one part taken from taking credit given by European Investment Bank together with Fiat who got 200 million euro with Serbia guarantee for 300 million and 200 million guarantee of Servizi Assicurativi del Commercio Estero." 842U (talk) 23:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but if you don't understand you should have some courses. It is not up to you to give me a English lessons since I am not in a school here. And you use that as reason to delete sourced text as if you do not understand what is written. If you did not understand you should have asked for meaning in first place.

If you object to my style of writing you could edit style but you should not delete sourced text just because you don't like it. So it could be written as for example:


 * "In end of financing process Government of Serbia invested more than 300 million EUR one part of that money was taken from credit given by European Investment Bank together with Fiat who got 200 million euro with Serbia guarantee for 300 million and 200 million guarantee of Servizi Assicurativi del Commercio Estero."

But that will not change what it means and should not be deleted because of that.

Note that you have written in edits summary for FCA Srbija article - Background - as a reason to delete large part of article. You have not mentioned English language. I will take this section you opened here after deleting article parts for other reasons as dubious. Loesorion (talk) 23:51, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Stick to the arguments, and consider looking Talk page guidelines. You have touched the ad hominem category . And once again, 842U you do not own articles on Wiki.-- AirWolf  talk  02:48, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Background
In the background section, the fact that wages at FCAS are one fifth Polish wages is mentioned TWICE. What do you think, wouldn't it be ok to remove one of those? 842U (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 4 November 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 21:06, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

FCA Serbia → Fiat Serbia – FCA doesn't even exist anymore. This subsidiary company name is now Fiat Serbia again, both legally and commercially. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 18:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2022 (UTC)