Talk:Fiat justitia ruat caelum

(untitled)
No known classical source. Editing accordingly.

Look here.

Larvatus 16:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)larvatus
 * Link appears down; see also:
 * "[1999: January Re: vigilantesque Latinity" at the Archive]
 * Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 19:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Murray was actually Baron Mansfield at the time of the James Somersett (not "Somerset") decision; the earldom wasn't created (for the first time) until four years later. So, I'm about to correct both of those (very minor) nits.

Slightly random, but...I was of the impression that this was not, as the current version of the article states, contrary to Roman jurisprudence nor in fact in favor of 'reckless urgency of justice.' My understanding -- coming both from the Latin phrasing (the choice of words, justitia instead of lex) and its usual use in English & American jurisprudence -- is that what it in fact advocates is that the judicial system not let itself be hindered from its task by the possibility of social or political consequences. (A purely idiomatic translation of it into English would be along the lines of "Do what is right, whatever the concequences.") 71.76.239.85 01:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay regarding Murray. As for the slightly random part, I based my edit on the cited primary sources. Can you suggest specific rephrasing? Larvatus 06:45, 17 August 2007 (UTC)larvatus

Mansfield used in quote in the Wilkes case in stating his opinion on the outlawry issue on 6/8/1768; his opinion on this issue begins on 4 Burr. 2548 and the reporter states the date on that page; the quote is found on p. 2562; I changed 1770 to the date when Mansfield gave his opinion; 1770 is used on the running headings of the pages because that is the last reported event -- when Wilkes is about to finish his sentence, p. 2577. I'm relying on 3d edition, 1812, where the "star" pagination from an earlier edition is not always clear where the page breaks belong. Its an easy download from Google books. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.60.122.146 (talk) 18:27, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

German origin, not English
How can the basic principle be of English origin if its German equivalent Fiat iustitia et pereat mundus is half a century older than the first use of its English equivalent and back then was known as the official motto of such a prominent figure as Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor? --Tlatosmd 07:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Note on sources
the article on the alternative phrase Fiat iustitia et pereat mundus  is based on de WP, and see my note there. I share User:71.76.239.85|71.76.239.85's doubts on the meaning, though the German gives a source for the negative sense, at least of the alternative phrase--such a meaning may well be unique to Germany. Based on the sources as they now appear, I'm adjusting the section on Roman use. A proper modern source for all this is needed. DGG (talk) 00:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Harry Turtledove story
The Harry Turtledove story "Though the Heavens Fall" is named after this maxim (and the maxim appears in the story). Though not as noteworthy as Middlemarch, this might deserve mention in the section Famous modern uses. Kier07 (talk) 05:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

RAF Police and Fiat Justitia
"Fiat Justitia" is the motto of the RAF Police, it is true, but please notice it is without the "ruat coelum" clause. Therefore tangential to the article. Removed. Consider a separate article for the motto "Fiat justitia".

Following is personal comment, trying to explain what a difference the clause makes: "Fiat justitia" is a hope, an ideal for the guardians of justice (e.g. the Police), and us all, but is not "Fiat justitia, ruat cœlum" strongly unconditional, for the administrators of justice (e.g. the Judiciary)? P0mbal (talk) 17:32, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

P.D. James novel
P.D. James uses the phrase in Death Comes to Pemberley (2011) when, after the inquest, Dr. Clitheroe declares to Darcy that the outcome of the case will depend upon two questions. 199.104.125.193 (talk) 13:52, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Aldnoah.Zero
I don't know that it'll be considered "famous", but Aldnoah.Zero does use the English translation of this quote ("Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.") as its slogan (in the advertising, and in the opening of the anime). Perhaps worth mentioning on the page. --V2Blast (talk) 01:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

contradiction
The article claims in the introduction that the phrase "was used in the landmark judgment, Somerset v Stewart, where slavery was held to be unlawful at common law.[2]"

Later in the "Modern origins" section the article states that the phrase was found "not, as is commonly believed, in Somersett's Case, the 1772 case concerning the legality of slavery in England)"

I don't know which is correct, nor do I have the ability to review sources at this time. But I thought it was worth making a note of this apparent contradiction (unless I'm confused and misunderstanding this). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.149.145.140 (talk) 05:16, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Move to "Fiat justitia ruat coelum"?
(I am not a Latinist but) It looks like both "coelum" and "caelum" are valid spellings, but all the classical sources in this article use the spelling "coelum", so that looks more. Right now this page title uses "caelum" and there's a redirect from "coelum". Is there any reason we shouldn't flip that, and have the main page at "coelum"? — Narsil (talk) 22:13, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

There are ancient sources cited by no less than Oxford University
Seneca spoke of Pisos justice with the quote cited in this article. https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199990009.001.0001/acref-9780199990009-e-8222 how can this article live in both the the neighborhood of make believe and that of fact. This is why I am so happy that there is nothing on Wikipedia that really matters like chemical abstracts. Any one may write in this forum and this is her biggest weakness. I am so sorry to say. Dachvid (talk) 23:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)