Talk:Fighting Fantasy/Archive 1

Controversy
I can find no details about the controversy these books generated due to the amount of gore in a "childrens" book. I remember several newspapers doing articles, particularly the fact that they quoted a section of "Deathtrap Dungeon" where the players innards spill out into their hands. Anyone have any details?

General format and editing stuff
Hi everyone. At the moment I'm working on the individual entries for the series. I've been adding publishers blurb (in italics) to the articles to give a general feel of what the books are about without wandering into spoiler area. I also added a list of Wizard releases to the List of Fighting Fantasy books because with new releases etc. I felt it was neccessary as with new books apparently going to appear on a regular basis I thought it was about time they were listed on their own. I've changed a few minor things like changing 'Titan' or 'Allansia' in the infobox to 'Allansia, Titan' or 'Old World, Titan' for clarity. I hope this doesn't cause any problems. Thanks. (EvilRedEye 00:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC))

59 books.
Well, since Eye of the Dragon and Bloodbones have been released, doesn't that mean there is 61 books?

I suppose it means 61 have been released in total, although there are still 59 if you refer to the Puffin series. I suppose it depends on the context, I'd need to read the main article more thouroughly to be more helpful. (EvilRedEye 00:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC))

Anyone?
Is anyone still working on the individual FF articles? I'm doing as much as I can! The Bloodbones article needs to be updated as the book is released now !! FlamingStarPress 10:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I updated the article to try and make it clearer that it was now released and focus on it more as a gamebook. I kept a lot of the old material because at the end of the day it was the 'lost' gamebook for a while and it's interesting for that. (EvilRedEye 23:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC))

Individual articles
I'm of the opinion that the books which make up the Fighting Fantasy series deserve their own articles. I'm in the process of writing as many as I can - Freeway Fighter and Portal of Evil are already done. I only have access to a few of the books, however, so everybody needs to pitch in and write up whichever books they own!


 * Go for it :) I created a category Category: Fighting Fantasy so they can all go together. Tim! (talk) 19:44, 3 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Those articles on characters from the Fighting Fantasy universe need a big cleanup - mention of which books they occur in would be a great start, as I don't recognise any of them. The user who created them doesn't seem to be around any more, and I'm more than willing to just scrap them.--Euchrid 15:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes... I wondered if a list of characters might be a solution as they are quite short, and it seems a shame to kill the articles completely. Tim! (talk) 17:17, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I've just done a little editing on Island of the Lizard King. I was wondering if the individual book articles might be nicer if the body was split into two sections - one to tell a little bit about the story itself and another to describe the design of the quest (linear vs nonlinear, difficulty, special features etc). What do people think? Wightpants 20:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds sensible - I say go for it. Battle Ape 02:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm adding more seprate book articles, I've done Beneath Nightmare Castle. They will be pretty basic, but at least they are there to be added on to. Maybe someone should start making articles for the authors?FlamingStarPress 1:20 14 August 2006 (GMT)


 * Nice to see the added work. I have some ideas on the writeups for individual gamebooks which I'm interested in people's thoughts about (see below). —WebDrake 16:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Standardisation of individual gamebook articles
One thing that needs some work is the style of the individual gamebook articles. These vary considerably: some are very brief descriptions, some are quasi-reviews, some give extensive plot details and virtual solutions.

I've done a rewrite of the Moonrunner article, and added Legend of the Shadow Warriors. These should give an idea of what I think makes for a good individual gamebook article, namely:


 * A Fighting Fantasy infobox.


 * A very functional intro passage. Note that we should not talk about the "recent" Wizard reissuing, because it won't be recent for long.
 * Title (ISBN xxxxxx) is a single player roleplaying gamebook written by author, illustrated by illustrator and originally published in 19xx. It forms part of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone's Fighting Fantasy series, numbered xx in the original Puffin printing and (yy/not yet included) in the Wizard reissuing.  (A brief note about any unusual characteristics, e.g. non-standard number of paragraphs, could be added also.  However, we might relegate this sort of stuff to the infobox.)


 * A spoiler warning, spoiler.


 * A few paragraphs (without a new section heading — the article should be sufficiently brief it's not necessary) summarising the general plot outline, themes and style of the book, and any nonstandard rules. This should for preference not give away any "deep secrets".  In particular I think it is a bad idea to have an extended "Plot" section as in e.g. The Crimson Tide.  This is for two reasons: (a) it gives away too much — detailed plot walkthroughs should be on a separate page, if we have them at all; and (b) I think individual gamebook articles should be of minimal length, so they could conceivably be strung together into one big long document describing the whole FF series.


 * Errata section, if necessary.


 * See also section. This should link to,
 * Fighting Fantasy
 * List of Fighting Fantasy gamebooks (Note the broken link. I think we should rename the List of Fighting Fantasy game books page: gamebook is one word.)


 * No external links to e.g. www.gamebooks.org. We shouldn't promote individual websites in this way, although they might be referenced in the Notes.  A link to such sites via the main Fighting Fantasy page is enough.  I don't see a need for any external links on the individual gamebook pages but there may be exceptional cases where it's appropriate.


 * Notes, if necessary.

There is also the matter of writing style. We are in an odd situation in respect to Fighting Fantasy, in that there is little reference material for the individual gamebooks: most of what is available, certainly online, is the work of enthusiastic amateurs like ourselves. We are therefore in an odd situation when it comes to what to write, since "external" commentators are in general no more authoritative than we are.

I am aware that some of my comments on Moonrunner and Legend of the Shadow Warriors could be taken as POV; on the other hand, I think some level of descriptiveness is probably positive, and I think we will have to work on simply building a consensus about what is appropriate for each individual book.

I would very much appreciate people's comments about these ideas. —WebDrake 17:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with all of that. Are there any articles you think really need sorting out? If anyone is interested in sorting out the articles, maybe we should get in touch? I've sorted out my BNC article. :-)FlamingStarPress 21:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think to be honest that all articles could do with a once-over. I'd be interested in your scrutiny of my own contributions — comments welcome.  For the time being I will try to work on Battleblade Warrior, Armies of Death, Master of Chaos, Keep of the Lich-Lord, Night Dragon and Spellbreaker. —WebDrake 00:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that this is a good place to mention the articles which need to have some attention given to them. In addition to the ones just mentioned, House of Hell has become a terrible mess, Robot Commando, Masks of Mayhem, Star Strider and Sky Lord need expanding and Creature of Havoc needs to be tightened up. Euchrid 06:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't agree with your ideas about plot, and I'm a little unsure what you mean. Are you suggesting we have one page for mechanics and one page for plot? That's stupid. Also, I don't think we should ever string each book into one long page; the books are deserving of their own articles. Battle Ape 08:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * No, you completely misunderstand me. What I'm reacting against is extended descriptions of the story as per The Crimson Tide.  If you look at the articles I have made major contributions to (Moonrunner and Legend of the Shadow Warriors) they certainly discuss the plot.  I would propose a separate page for walkthroughs which I think are a different matter, although to be honest I don't really want to see them at all as the preferred route may often be a matter of preference.


 * Nor do I propose getting rid of individual gamebook articles. However, I do think a super-article concatenating all the individual writeups might be a useful addition to what is here, allowing someone to browse through the details of the entire series on one page.  Whether or not we do that, though, I think brevity and simplicity is something to aim for in the gamebook articles. —WebDrake 10:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should move discussion on which gamebooks need editing to Talk:List of Fighting Fantasy gamebooks. I have suggested a little system there to keep track of what needs doing and why. —WebDrake 12:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Crediting cover art
Following my comments on Talk:Beneath Nightmare Castle, I think it's worth discussing this subject.

Whereas the text and cover art of FF books is pretty consistent, the cover art varies to some extent. I've been thinking how to deal with this, and my feeling is that it's best to credit only the "interior" illustrator in the main text, and in the "illustrators=" section of the infobox. So, for example, the intro text,


 * Title (ISBN xxxxxx) is a single player roleplaying gamebook written by author, illustrated by illustrator and originally published in 19xx.

... should include only the interior illustrator.

The infobox does of course include a cover image, and a caption to that image, and it's in this caption that we shoud credit the cover artist, e.g. "The 'gold dragon' cover of Beneath Nightmare Castle, with illustration by Terry Oakes."

In some ways this is very unfair as the cover artists made a major contribution to the original FF series, but I don't think we can credit them in a stronger way when the covers vary, not only between early Puffin editions, but also between the Puffin and Wizard books. —WebDrake 01:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that seems like a good idea. I'll go through the articles and change them all so there like that. :-) FlamingStarPress 21:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

messy
fix teh formatting - i have to scroll down three pages worth to get to the "Overview" section. too many images / tables up near the top. Space it out or soemthing please --Nerd42 18:47, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Infobox image
I've changed the infobox image from the Wizard line's Deathtrap Dungeon to the original cover of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain; generally speaking, I believe it's more representative of the series as a whole and more fans would recognise it. If anyone has any objections, leave a note. Battle Ape 06:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

www.fightingfantasy.com
Anybody else notice that fightingfantasy.com was recently swallowed up to redirect to the Wizard Books website? It must have been sometime around January or February, because I remember seeing the old site as late as November or December in 2005. It's a pity; it hadn't been updated in a while, but there was still a lot of info there, and I was using it to find details about the original publications. Battle Ape 02:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added a link to the original FightingFantasy.com, stored at the Internet Archive. I've also rearranged the external links a little to sort between official and amateur websites.  —WebDrake 00:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

in other media
Was the Appointment With F.E.A.R. game ever released? As far as I can tell, it only ever appeared upcoming in a catalogue. Pseudo Intellectual (Edit: rumours abound of a Spectrum "Sword of the Samurai" also.)

Yes. I've bought a translated version of Appointment With F.E.A.R. here in São Paulo, Brazil in the early 90s. It was my first FF book :) Bpfurtado 23:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but that's the book. Pseudo Intellectual was asking about the computer game based on it. 86.143.48.14 16:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Creature list
I wouldn't mind compiling a list of creatures for the fighting fantasy series - at least for that in the main setting, like that which has been done for D&D, etc... I'm currently obtaining more of the series, so I'll compile it as I go.

What information should probably make it into such a listing if it is to be done? At the very least, a reference to what books they make appearances in would be a good call, methinks. Noble Kale 00:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In 1985 a complete Fighting Fantasy bestiary was released, Out of the Pit - I got that when it came out, and I remember that there were a few monsters in there that hadn't been used up to that point (I think they all were later on). I'd say you want books they appeared in and Skill and Stamina values (or ranges); everything else is secondary. 86.143.48.14 16:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you do go ahead with this, a bit of fluff text to distinguish one monster from the next would be a good idea, otherwise it'll just be a very boring list of numbers. Euchrid 02:18, 20 September 2006 (UTC)