Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Archive 2

Sales figure conflict
I added a comment regarding the sales of FF7; the website cited as the confirmation of the original figures was cast in doubt when a simultaneous publication by Computer Gaming World and PC Gamer late last year cast the 8th installment of the series as having surpassed Final Fantasy 7 is sales. I'm still doing research to see if I can get a definite answer either way, and hope other people here can assist in this.

Japan's fourth disc
The USA edition has three disc, but i'm curious about Japan's fourth disc. Is it a rumor? if it's real, what's in it that isn't in the english one? Is there any differnce?
 * The re-release of FFVII in Japan ("FFVII Internatinoal") has a fourth disc, that just includes info about characters, weapons, items, etc, as well as fmv and sketches of pre-release versions of FFVII. Nothing very exciting.--Undc23 04:16, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

European release date?
Does anyone know the exact date in November 1997 when FFVII was released in PAL territories?
 * November 1st for UK, so I assume for all other PAL too. — Cuahl ◌ 29 June 2005 10:36 (UTC)

*wipes sweat from brow* Whew! Next up...
Well, thus endeth a good two day editing spree on my part. I hope the article looks better for it. If nothing else, it's certainly shorter. As I was editing, though, I was thinking of several things that should be mentioned somewhere but aren't, as far as I can tell. It would be nice to discuss the different versions of the game somewhere (I'm specifically thinking of the international version here, but also the differences between the Japanese and English language releases), and the, well, "notoriety" of the English localization would be nice to mention somewhere. I'm taking a break for a couple of days at least, so if anyone else wants to take a swing at it, go ahead. If not, I'll see if I can cobble something together when I get back. – Seancdaug July 4, 2005 06:35 (UTC)

One-winged Angel Screenshot
I would think, as a general rule, it's a bad idea to put a screenshot of a game's final boss in an article. Is there another screenshot that can take the place of the Sephiroth battle? --Vyran 16:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

lol you're absolutely right, it is kinda dumb, but most people wouldnt know the difference unless they have already beaten the game. It could be changed to the overhead view of midgar from the beginning (which would make more sense anyways). I dont have access to it from here so someone needs to change it. -Tik
 * A screenshot from a fight would be best since it's in the gameplay section, but that would also work. --Vyran 18:07, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I have no sympathy at all for people who read any Wikipedia pages and have their game spoiled for them. It doesn't make sense. I don't even think the spoiler tag should exist. I don't mean to be stuck up about it all - I too hate having things spoiled for me. But if I'm looking forward to something on my own I don't go reading a page about it. It doesn't make sense. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia right? You wouldn't find spoiler warnings in written versions. — Cuahl 01:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Then again, you wouldn't find "Final Fantasy VII" in a written encyclopedia either. I think it is the caption which sort of gives something away. I've tried to edit it such that someone who has played the game will recognize it, and someone who hasn't won't know what it really means. Someone42 05:29, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I think this is more like, 'Rosebud,' or Darth Vader being Luke's father, in that, pretty much everyone knows what happens, and it's safe to insert. And it's not like it's a surprise (or irrational one, either... FFIX, anyone?)--"Whoa, the main antagonist of the game turns out to be the final boss?! Not only that, but you fight an advanced version of him! This is a shock and innovation to the video-game industry."

The only thing that would be lost is the "allure" of the "unknown." Like you want to be surprised in the final battle; a more "whoa, we fight in the clouds?!"-environment type thing.



Lockeownzj00 01:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Seconded. And if we're talking about not finding Final Fantasy VII as encyclopaedic material offline, why is it on Wikipedia? — Cuahl 01:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I think by the time a player gets out of Midgar they're pretty sure Sephiroth is going to be the grand finale, but how would anyone guess that he'd look like that? But not everyone knows what happens if they're looking at the wiki article for it - they may be comparing Final Fantasy games to see which one they want to buy next (I've been looking at various material on a few of the games myself to see if I want to buy FFVIII, FFX or just get FF Anthology and play FF6 again for old times' sake). I think it's just for the sake of curious (but not "that" curious) players that the screenshot not be placed under a section so simple as describing the basic elements of gameplay. --Vyran 02:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should add "Wikipedia is not a catalogue" to what Wikipedia is not. Sorry to be annoying, but I'm one of those who tries to keep things Wikipedia. — Cuahl 02:27, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia can be informative and contain all necessary information without needlessly dropping it upon people who may not want to see it. People who want to find information about a book, movie, or game may not want to be told what happens at the very end, and we should not assume that a reader wants to find out a major detail in a tiny paragraph one of us wrote. Getting rid of information is not necessary and it's not what I'm suggesting, but at the very least, separating information or pictures that could spoil the experience would help people that may have come to Wikipedia to read about the game and not just read the game. --Vyran 03:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I understand that if I was new to Final Fantasy VII, I wouldn't want the game spoiled myself. However, like you say, people read the article to read about the game, but Sephiroth is part of the game? Sorry, but I don't read certain articles (Serenity (movie) for example) because I'm looking forward to the experience. Wikipedia is just another website on the web, and I don't think we should have moral obligations to baby-protect users. As an example, people can go spoil that new damn Harry Potter book or, uh, not read the page in the first place. FFVII is eight years old now - do we really have to concern ourselves with it? Maybe this isn't the place to talk about this I guess.. I'll go see if there's a place on the Spoiler Policy page — Cuahl 04:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * True. After a certain time, someone is as likely to have something spoiled here as they are anywhere else they look. --Vyran 12:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * The fact that FFVII is eight years old is irrelevant. 10 years from now, people are going to still be playing it, just as people still play the Zork games (albeit in less quantity). Many people might, after having being introduced to a later Final Fantasy, decide to turn to Wikipedia as an unbiased, reasonably comprehensive source for older Final Fantasies because they suddenly are interested in the series. Of course we should not have the moral obligation to hide spoilers (obviously if you read below the spoiler warning, expect to see spoilers) - but there's nothing wrong if a Wikipedian goes out of their way to cover one up with a more subtle version, or point out one to fellow Wikipedians. Someone42 10:58, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * There's an entire article on Safer Sephiroth and no one bothered to put a spoiler alert on it. I guess its because its not linked to anything. Hmph. ~ Hibana


 * I imagine so. Strange that someone would write the article and not do anything with it. --Vyran 12:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * That always happens. That's why I'm trying to hunt down every FF-related article — Cuahl 16:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I looked at the page and edited some portions of it that were clearly wrong (like Safer having only four wings) as there's a lot of speculation and many things can be argued either way. --IdoAlphaOmega 20:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I replaced the OWA screenshot with a screenshot of Cloud, Tifa and RedXIII fighting some buggerlings in Mideel. I think this screenshot is better than the OWA screenshot, because I hope there's no objections to this, now? The OWA shot is still used in Safer Sephiroth (and probably elsewhere). --Wwwwolf 20:38, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) it shows sideways combat screen, which is far more common than the from-the-behind view in OWA shot, and
 * 2) it is probably the place where most people playing FF7 will spend most of their time! =)
 * I'm the one who put this screenshot on the page. My screenshot is used elsewhere, that's right like the one-winged angel page. Those pages are the right place to have the screenshot. I agree with the fact that a normal battle screenshot is more appropriate to show the gameplay system than the last boss. Good move Wwwwolf! &mdash; DarkEvil 15:38, July 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * I like it! It's a better looking screenshot and it's more use to people who aren't familiar with the game. Sigh. This makes me want to play this game all over again. — Cuahl 16:43, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I just changed the screenshot, keeping in idea the facts mentionned by Wwwwolf being the sideway combat screen and not giving away the final boss showing a regular part of the game. It's a normal battle screenshot, in better quality than the older one and lower file size too. – DarkEvil 17:10, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you did? Image:FinalFantasyVII-Combat.jpg — Cuahl 17:27, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you mean, it was better quality looking as far as I can see, smaller file size and it did show something similar to Image:FinalFantasyVII-Combat.png, being a regular sideway battle and non-spoiler. – DarkEvil 19:42, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sorry for the huge file and lack of clarity. I grabbed the pic from PlayStation PAL version using tvtime. I don't have anything besides the composite video cable for PSone (which may make the pic a bit blurrier). I tried GIMP's deinterlacing/video filters but it only made the pic worse. And to top it all, I accidentally saved as PNG (as the original grab was) and uploaded that. Don't make screengrabs while coffeed. =) Yeah, PC version screenshots are probably far clearer. Still, I'd appreciate it if you'd run to Mideel and slash some monsters in the bushes (preferrably grab with Head Hunters instead of those worms in my pic). That was item 2 on my list. =) --Wwwwolf 08:56, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for replying. I'll get there and try to do exactly what you said. I could've done it in either PC or PSX. I'll do it in PC taking a screenshot. It should not be too long. – DarkEvil 14:39, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * I uploaded the new screenshot, but it's still the old Image:FinalFantasyVII-Combat.jpg that's appearing for me when I go to the image page for now. Can someone explain to me why everytime I upload a screenshot over an old one, it takes like 20 minutes to show the new one, even if I delete old temporary files, cookies and press refresh? – DarkEvil 15:50, July 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * When I made my comment earlier, it was because there was no image uploaded, and no image was on the page. That's why I reverted because the image had essentially been taken away. Sorry for the confusion. Oh, and Wikipedia uses a cache, but that shouldn't take 20 mins, so that'll be your browser probably. Close, reopen, and then Shift+F5 on the page should do the trick some. — Cuahl 17:14, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It was a lot of confusion for nothing, no problem. Anyway, the new pic I uploaded over it is better. Thanks for the help with my browser, the trick worked perfectly. – DarkEvil 23:16, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Absolutely better - better quality, better enemies, and Cloud isn't wielding Ultima Weapon like in my screenshot (the point of fighting these enemies is to get XP and tons of AP, thus having a zero-growth weapon is kind of pointless - the only reason I was using it in my screenshot was that the nearest savegame I had at hand was "ready to kick Sephiroth rump" and I was too coffeed to notice it until FAR later...) Thank you! --Wwwwolf 11:25, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I've got to say thank you for the compliment myself. The screenshot didn't take me too long of my own time to take and it was rather easy, I was already prepared. Plus, you're the one who put the idea of this particular scene first, I just copied it in the better way possible. – DarkEvil 18:52, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps this isn't the place to put this, but just thought I'd point it out: Square has said that they're bringing a graphically updated version of FF7 to PS3...so, all those points about "the game being 8 years old" go out the window. People will soon be playing it for the first time on a massive scale.


 * Isn't that just a rumor? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:49, August 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's in no way confirmed. That PS3 tech demo proves nothing. ~ Hibana 19:10, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Heated safer sephiroth discussion
If anyone is interested, there is a heated discussion about the symbolism and visual representation of safer sephiroth (one winged angel) on the -Safer Sephiroth- page that i would recommend reading and supplying your opinion on. i have found the arguement (cant spell*) very entertaining. Kind of a left turn in this discussion board but i thought u might like to know. -Tik

UPDATE: the discussion is no longer on the page, as it was merged with another page and was removed.Tik 13:18, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually the discussion can still be found - Just go directly to Talk:Safer Sephiroth. --Wwwwolf 18:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

oh ok cool, i couldnt find it when i went back there, thx for the link.Tik 13:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Rumors
Should rumors of a Final Fantasy VII remake for the PS3 be mentioned in this article (this rumors are said to come from "credible" sources)? There is also a rumor that the technical demo is actually footage from the remake itself, although Sony has denied this.
 * No, not for now, these are only rumors, started by fans, and as they said, don't expect anything out of this, it was just a tech demo. I'm not saying they never will, but that is nothing more than speculation for now. – DarkEvil 23:52, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

To be honost you are probably right, the game is probably gonna be made sooner or later, since SE interviewed that since they got such a good responce from the demo that they may LOOK into doing a remake, but sadly, so sadly, there is no announcement and should be considered rumor until SE comments further. Tik 20:36, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Supernova
I've never played the Japanese version of the game, but I read that the animation for Safer Sephiroth's "Supernova" is very different than in the US localization. Like, it doesn't show our solar system in the Japanese version, it's just a few planets. I'm wondering if this is why they never mention the name Earth when referring to the "Planet" in the game, even though US Supernova clearly shows it. I thought maybe it could be mentioned in that little Versions that was recently added if it's significant. ~ Hibana 06:56, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * This is true, the Japanese Supernova merely cuts to black, then to starry space, then there's a big loads of random white explosions, and it's over. Comes back to the battle and you receive 9998 damage or something. Certainly doesn't say 'Earth.'--alfakim 09:08, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * In anticipation of FFXII coming out in Japan soon, I've been playing all of my old FF imports. I just finished the original JP version of FFVII a couple of days ago. For the record, the original weaksauce version of Supernova does show the planet Jupiter. There's no mistaking it; it looks to be a scan of an actual photograph. If we're really going to take something like that seriously as evidence, I suppose we'd have to at the very least concede that "the Planet" was always intended to be somewhere in our very own Sol system.


 * I also want to mention... Years ago some guy spread the word all over the internet that "Pale Horse" was a mistranslation of "Pyro Holes." (google those two phrases together, you'll get a lot of hits.) Anyway, he was full of it. Pale Horse is correct. Druff 12:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Is it also a cheap version of the supernova in the Japanese international version? – DarkEvil 14:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Dunno.--alfakim 23:10, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There was also that Test 0 enemy in the Corel Prison that wasn't included in the US PS1 version. Does anyone know if it was in either the PC version or European release? ~ Hibana 04:15, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * I can confirm it wasn't in the US PC release too, but I don't know about European releases. I had heard about this monster, I think he is in both the old and the International Japanese versions. – DarkEvil 14:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it doesn't say the planet's name because the Planet in the game is supposed to be alternate-reality version of Earth or something, and the player was meant to draw this conclusion themselves. That was the simplest explanation for the whole thing that I could think of. --Wwwwolf 10:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, like with Final Fantasy IV, I asked on its Talk page if the planet was called Earth in just the English localization. It was explained to me that it was not only mentioned in the game's "Legend" sequence, but that it is proved by showing our solar system in the ending. Supernova, on the other hand, shows our solar system only in the English version of FFVII. I figured it was just called the Planet because it wasn't given a formal name like FFIX (Terra) or FFX (Spira). ~ Hibana 12:31, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Right. Makes sense. How about the Japanese "international version"? Does it have the longer or shorter version? If so, it might indicate that such relationship was originally intended, or that it was retconned. --Wwwwolf 12:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The Japanese FFVII International version has everything that that North American version has, including the newer version of Supernova. Also, all of the newer content that appeared in the North American version was created by members of the same staff that created the original Japanese version. It's not as though Square finished the game for Japan and then handed it over to Square USA, who then proceeded to add a bunch of stuff. No, most of the things that were "added" to the North American release were things that were meant to be in the original Japanese version all along. The problem was that the game had been scheduled for release in Japan in the fall of 1996, but they couldn't meet that deadline. Management gave them until the end of the year. By the end of 1996 they still hadn't finished everything. Management decided that it was close enough to being finished and they released it in January 1997. Then most of the staff went on to FFVIII, but a small group continued to work on FFVII and finish it for its North American release. When they were done, they joined the FFVIII team. Druff 01:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

In-game character shots
Red XIII article has a cute picture of Red's in-game appearance. It would be neat if the other character articles had in-game and preferrably combat character shots too. Like the Red pic, I'd hope these were from game, not extracted from model viewer. Though, getting a good, and typical, pics of the characters is probably pretty difficult, but I hope they can be done. And, please, Cloud should be either scratching his head or shrugging :) --Wwwwolf 10:47, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I have CGs that are essentially high-res versions of the main characters' battle models (in various poses). They're official JPEGs that circulated through the Internet some time ago (I acquired them a while back). Are these the sort of thing you would like to somehow implement into the articles? -Reichu 01:09, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Spelling, which we stuck on
Two interesting questions:


 * 1) Should it be JENOVA or Jenova? The full-capitalized name is only used in the Nibelheim room and the helmet, dialogue and combat helper refers to her consistently as "Jenova", so unless anyone has any objections, I think I'll one day try to make articles stick with the latter spelling.
 * 2) How about the nomenclature for the monsters with unusual punctuation? The names in the game read "Jenova&#x2022;BIRTH", "Jenova&#x2022;LIFE", "Jenova&#x2022;DEATH", "Jenova&#x2022;SYNTHESISA" (and B and C), "Bizarro&#x2022;Sephiroth A" (B,C,D,E) and "Safer&#x2022;Sephiroth".

The latter is particularly interesting, because it uses the centered dot / bullet / whatever and such. I'm not even sure it's supposed to be a centered dot, just weird punctuation. In many online sources, I've seen it


 * getting replaced by a dash (eg. "Jenova-LIFE")
 * getting replaced by an asterisk (eg. "Jenova*BIRTH")
 * getting omitted and used space insted (eg. "Bizarro Sephiroth")

So, my humble and completely inconsistent and arbitrary proposition to increase consistency: Let's use dash for Jenova's forms (eg. "Jenova-LIFE") and space for Sephiroth's forms ("Bizarro Sephiroth"). I have no other rationale for the dash except for the fact that Jenova's second parts are capitalized, thus a dash seems more aesthetically pleasing. Or something like that. Of course, if we were to ignore Jenova's funky spelling in game, it'd make sense to use spaces there too (eg. "Jenova Synthesis") --Wwwwolf 12:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Keeping all of it capitalized would keep with continuity of the game, as we all know, in-game wording can be dodgy at best. Ereinion 08:40, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression that all-caps JENOVA was to be associated with the project itself; spelling it Jenova referred to the creature. But that's just me. --Jiffypop 06:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

According to this table, in the original Japanese, the names in question were "ジェノバ・ＢＩＲＴＨ", "ジェノバ・ＬＩＦＥ", "ジェノバ・ＤＥＡＴＨ", "ジェノバ・ＳＹＮＴＨＥＳＩＳ", "リバース・セフィロス", and "セーファ・セフィロス". Japanese is not generally written with spaces, as the mixture of kanji and kana typically make it clear where one word begins and the next ends. However, when it is unclear, as it often is with a string of loanwords, a centered dot is used to separate the loanwords. The centered dot can also have the same meaning as a hyphen, due to the "-" often being used in loanwords to indicate lengethened vowel sounds.

The reason why Jenova was written in katakana, while words such as birth and life were written in roman characters is unclear. However, when loanwords are written with roman characters they are often written using uppercase characters.

I agree with Wwwwolf that it makes the most sense from an American perspective to use the dash for the Jenova forms, because written with a space, it would appear that "Jenova" was an adjective, where it is actually a proper noun. However, for "Bizarro Sephiroth" and "Safer Sephiroth", it makes more sense to use a space, because "Bizarro" and "Safer", while questionably words, do appear to be adjectives. It may be worth noting that in the original Japanese, "Bizarro" is actually either "Reverse" or "Rebirth". The translators may have opted to rename that form "Bizarro" because it is impossible to determine whether "リバース" means "Reverse" or "Rebirth", as the words are pronounced identically using Japanese syllables.

There was a discussion over the romanization and meaning of "セーファ" at Talk:Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII), of which I am sure Wwwwolf is already aware, given that he took part in it. -- Rablari Dash 06:43, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Final Fantasy SGI demo removed
I've removed the summary of the Final Fantasy SGI demo on the grounds that it really doesn't have anything to do with Final Fantasy VII. The N64/PlayStation background logically predates this game, and really is better discussed in the Square Co., Ltd. article, anyway, and the demo itself would more comfortably belong in the Final Fantasy VI article, since it features characters from that game. It sticks out like a sore thumb here, IMO. – Seancdaug 12:09, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea, you should go ahead and add the part about the demo to FFVI? -- ZeWrestler   Talk
 * Yeah, I'm going to. But first I had to go and rewrite the demo article ;-) – Seancdaug 12:45, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Needs a better map
The locations map appears to be a scan from some completely uncredited source - fair piracy use or not, it would be very cool to know where it was taken from. Plus, it's got that nasty black streak through it where the binding is. So, um, what I'm proposing is that it should be replaced, preferrably with a version drawn for Wikipedia specifically. I have a hazy recollection of there being a partial map somewhere in an earlier version... --Wwwwolf 12:40, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

On main theme
I went on and trimmed this bit off of the article (/* Musical score */)


 * The game also boasted a 6 minute symphonic "main theme" track played while the character was on the world map (only during disc 1, after which it was replaced with a secondary theme). The previous Final Fantasy games had world theme tracks that were only in the range of 45-90 seconds, and given the new audio capabilities of the Sony PlayStation (it could render real audio as opposed to utilizing a soundchip or MIDI), players were thrown back after being accustomed to the SNES's audio capabilities.  The unfortunate irony of this is that, given frequency of battles and distance between towns/dungeons, most players would never hear the composition in its entirety unless they tried to.  The chord progression and keys used in the main theme could also be heard in many of the other tracks throughout the game, and were used as part of a piano minigame to receive a prize.

I had some good ideas why this was taken off:


 * 1) Fancruft.
 * 2) So FF7 had long world map music. Woohoo. Big deal.
 * 3) Ironically enough, the FF7/PlayStation music is still "soundchip or MIDI". There isn't a single stinken bit of full PCM in the game, and only one audio track with synthesis + PCM samples. There certainly is no PCM bits in the main theme, so why ramble about that?

I just put "The game's main theme, heard on the world map in Disc 1, is over 6 minutes long" in the notable pieces bit. I hope this trimming won't annoy people. --Wwwwolf 18:49, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with your changes. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:08, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. – Seancdaug 19:44, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

On a similar tone, I also moved the "Aeris debate" section from the same anonymous user to Aerith Gainsbourg... well, not really moved, just plagiarised whatever good ideas it had and threw there some of mine too. =) --Wwwwolf 02:19, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

First Squaresoft game to be advertised on television in the US?
I don't think so. Does anyone have any proof of this statement? I am absolutely certain it is false as I saw commercials for Chrono Trigger predating FFVII. I'm removing the line until someone provides actual proof.
 * It's not true. The first Square game to be advertised on North American television was Rad Racer, and there were also ads for Final Fantasy VI (it used to mentioned in the FF3 article, but was sliced out as it was kind of pointless trivia). I'm not aware of any Chrono Trigger commercials in the U.S., but, even so, there were quite a number of commercials for other games before FFVII. – Seancdaug 15:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Didn't know Rad Racer was a Squaresoft game. My mistake. DirectorStratton 16:29, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I remember there being one for Secret of Mana also, circa 1993. ~ Hibana 19:06, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

LGBT category
There's now a small revert war - should I say a skirmish - going on - people don't seem to want this article listed in Category:LGBT computer and video games.

Well, I wouldn't, either. But the category has games where LGBT themes are shown in small amount (which is undeniably true in FF7's case); Nobody is claiming FF7 is a homosexual sex game or anything. I mean, Super Mario Bros. 2 qualifies in the category because it had (in some translations of the manual) a transgender boss.

So, before this thing gets any more weight, I suggest leaving the category as it is for now and everyone to voice their concerns in Category talk:LGBT computer and video games. There are strong arguments that the category should be turned into a list with explanations added. I'm in favor of that; this revert war is a good indication of the necessity of that thing. --Wwwwolf 10:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Aeris resurrection hoax ("Ben Lansing")
Should the rumors about being able to resurrect Aeris have a part in the FFVII article? Considering the number of people who believed it, I think it does; if nothing else, mention of the "Ben Lansing" user who claimed to be a Square translator and whom blew the rumors out of proportion. --Jiffypop 06:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Erm... the number of people who believed it is probably a fairly insignificant subsection of the number of people who have played the game (in total). It's a fan phenomena, and while it's important to the fan scene, I'm not convinced its relevant to anyone else. If we do mention it, it should be extremely brief (I wouldn't take more than a single sentence, actually), and we should have some sort of source to cite. – Seancdaug 11:21, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The Lansing hoax is mentioned - briefly - in the Aerith article. I'm not sure how much citations should be added, but I put there link to a copy of the original hoax article and the retraction put out by the same person.
 * While the number of people who believed in this thing may have been fairly small, it did help the resurrection debate snowball into ridiculous proportions. People talked years afterwards about theories on how to do this - it has only recently died down because these days the game has been taken apart so many ways and there's not a shred of solid evidence found in the game data, so there's rational proof that the whole thing is a hoax. And so on.
 * Oh, and the FF7 Wikibook has plot analysis sections and so on, and already a brief bit on Aerith resurrection rumors; If anything shows up here that's too extensive for Wikipedia, feel free to dump it to Wikibook side. =) --Wwwwolf 15:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the number of people involved in the debate was insignificant compared to the total number of people who have played/were aware of the game. Hence, it's a fan phenomena, and one that we need to be careful not to over-represent. This isn't a fansite, and we need to keep in mind that the majority people who will ideally be viewing this article aren't likely to be interested in internal fanbase politics. – Seancdaug 18:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC) (Moved to correct place by Wwwwolf)
 * Since there isn't a very in-depth story entry for FFVII (rightfully so, I suppose) even mentioning that Aeris dies in the main article, I suppose this works. What sense would it be to discuss a resurrection rumor without mentioning the death itself? =) But something to remember if the story block is ever edited to include more spoilers. --Jiffypop 16:58, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's more of what's appropriate for main FF7 article and what's appropriate for sub articles. On same grounds as Seancdaug says above, I don't think it's significant enough to be mentioned in the main article. I think the thing is worth mentioning in Aerith article though. This is, after all, marginal comments. --Wwwwolf 11:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Rumours 2
I don't really like removing whole paragraphs of text, so I feel I have to justify it here. The "remake for PS2/PS3" rumour has been added before and discussed here, and it was decided that since a rumour is a rumour and not fact, it shouldn't be included here.

Also, one must remember that rumours can be made up about anything, and if Aeris resurrection/secret Weapon rumours are allowed here, then by example that permits a slew of speculation and fancruft. Someone42 11:14, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It was just a repeat of what's on the Final Fantasy VII Technical Demo article anyway. ~ Hibana 14:45, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed, the stuff is repeated on other articles. No reason to mention this stuff on the main article. --Wwwwolf 16:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Re: Character-specific Pages
In some of the clean-up I've been doing lately (mostly as a result of browsing around and getting that "itch that must be scratched"), I've noticed that there is a bit of disarray with the main character page, when an entry exists for a character that has a specific page devoted to her/him. Presumably, in such cases, the entry on the main page should be very brief and to-the-point, with the various details reserved for the in-depth page. Also, one would suspect that any details mentioned in the main entry should be also present in the full article, albeit in greater detail. It's probably about time that this matter was tidied up. I've made a start (mostly with Aerith, Vincent, and the Turks), but if anyone else feels inspired to tackle the others, be my guest...

There are also many links left to individual character pages that have since been removed (Hojo, Zack, etc.). These ought to be cleaned up at some point.

On a final note, I thought I'd mention that I'm adding the Japanese renditions of the various character names, whenever I can locate them. (The "Advent Children" page inspired me. :D ) Probably the majority of visitors won't be able to make any use of these, but they're nice to have for the sake of completeness and to meet the needs of hard-core fans (i.e., those who are interested in such things but aren't proficient enough to comb the Internet for the Japanese renditions of the names). -Reichu 07:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the character page is a bit of an unresolved problem, IMO, from several months back. Thanks for taking a crack at it. As for individual character pages, I've been doing so fairly heavy pruning on that front. My immediate goal is to keep such pages limited to playable characters and demonstrably notable NPCs (Sephiroth, and maybe Rufus are the only two that come to mind for FF7): the broader, Wikipedia-wide consensus would probably consider even that excessive, and not without good reason. Any article discussing, say, Yuffie is going to be a discussion of Final Fantasy VII, meaning that the information in the former article should ideally be folded into the latter. But, hey, baby steps, right? Also, good call on the Japanese language names: it's good policy, I would think, considering that this is a Japanese game, and I think the relevance goes beyond "hard-core fans." – Seancdaug 16:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, I definitely think that there is enough stuff on many of the characters (as in, two paragraphs or more) to warrant individual character pages. Yuffie is iffy, yeah, but characters like the Turks, Cloud, Aeris, Vincent, Sephiroth, Jenova, etc., definitely deserve their own articles. What sort of stuff are you planning on culling, BTW?


 * Glad you appreciate the Japanese language names, too; they can be a bee-yotch to find (although Googling until I uncovered a Japanese script for the game has been a big help ). -Reichu


 * I'm concerned over the recent fuss surrounding the individual character articles for Final Fantasy VI. Even those articles do survive their AfD, they are pretty clearly skirting the line of WP:FICT, and I suspect that they (and other pages like them) are going to be coming under increasing attack as time goes by. In general, it's really bad form to devote more than two paragraphs or so to story summary, and I think most everything else we need to discuss can be fit comfortably within a third paragraph. So, ideally we'd be looking at something like this. I think we can justify one or two characters as important enough (and having sufficiently from their source material) (Cloud and Sephiroth certainly) to deserve individual entries, but very few others. Length is not really the issue, as we can easily pad out any one of these with detailed minutae that would be of interest only to those class of hardcore fan who probably already know it. The issue is notability, and very few of these articles cover topics that are notable outside of the context of Final Fantasy VII. – Seancdaug 17:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This may just be personal bias talking, kekekeke, but Vincent ought to keep his article, as well. For some reason, there's just so much stuff to say about that guy! And he's got his own game coming up, besides - that officially makes him "important enough", methinks, and his existing page will provide a much-needed receptacle for stuff uncovered by the new game. The Turks should also keep their page, too, IMO, since they also have their own game now... and because they're just cool. (No, I'm not biased. Not at all!) OR, both they and Rufus could get merged into the Shin-Ra page... That might not be a terribly bad idea, come to think of it...


 * Perhaps "Jenova" could be merged with "Sephiroth", since it is often rather difficult to know where one ends and the other begins. I'd probably be willing to tackle the necessary rewrite at some point. The 'Jenova' article sourly needs one, anyway... The Jenova/Sephiroth matter is mind-boggling and should at least sort out the competing fan theories the way any page on a contentious issue does, 'cept here we'd need to link to prominent hubs of FF7 geekdom. No web that hours of obsessed Googling can't untangle.


 * With many other characters, I can see how a shared page might be appropriate, since they are quite straightforward. Three paragraphs, like you said, and we're done, unless we stop and detail everything they did in the game, which is inappropriate. (Speaking of that, I sinned on my "Reno" writeup. I'm still learning, heh.) In fact,


 * Anyway, just suggestions. I wouldn't go crazy overhauling anything until more people chip in. -Reichu 17:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The thing (and please note that I adore Vincent, as well ;-) ) is that "important enough" is a relative term. Even the fact that he's starring in an upcoming game doesn't really prove anything, especially as its not even out yet. The important question is whether or not the information we're including is going to realistically be of interest to a general audience. Wikipedia is not a fan site, and we have to realize that an encyclopedia exists to basically summarize information for a "non-technical" audience (meaning, in this circumstance, non-fans). We're not here to serve as a "receptacle" for detailed information. It's not really a numbers game, either: even if Vincent has appeared in two dozen games, that's no guarantee that he's notable enough to deserve his own entry. He's more likely to be notable if he's appeared in a number of games, and less likely to be so if he hasn't, but that's not the only rubric. The question is actually more simple than that: is anyone who is not already closely familiar with the character going to be interested in Vincent Valentine as an concept outside of Final Fantasy VII? In all honesty, it seems rather unlikely to me.


 * Regarding Jenova, and in particular fan theories... well, this is pretty much always a problematic issue, for a number of reasons. Firstly, when we delve too deeply into fan theories, we run the risk of distorting the issue. A couple of hundred fans may argue violently on any given point, but that's an almost statistically insignificant subsection of people who have played, or, more to point, shown any interest in the game. Discussion of such theories inevitably dwarfs all other content and makes the issue look a lot more critical than it probably is. Secondly, it's an inevitable POV trap. No matter how much effort you put into presenting something neutrally and without bias, its presence inevitably attracts partisan editors who (not always maliciously, of course) subvert things. It's a great deal of effort to expend on a subject that is unlikely to be encyclopedia-worthy to start with. A good example of this was at the old Ultimecia article (now redirected to Final Fantasy VIII) where we had literally pages of material on a marginal fan theory that was the subject of frequent edit wars.


 * There are places for more detailed, fan-centric material, from Wikibooks to my personal hobby horse, the Final Fantasy wikicity. I have been trying, over the past several weeks, to start shifting our more detailed information to these locations, which we can then link to from here. But I think CVG-related pages are quite often viewed as the ghettos of Wikipedia, because they tend to have an unusually skewed perception of things like notability, and I think we need to be careful about how we present information. Just my two cents worth, though. – Seancdaug 20:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, heh heh, you can obviously tell I'm new here, right? It's hard to really tell what constitutes "improving" an article unless you're a veteran, I suppose. I don't want to be wasting my time writing stuff that doesn't belong on WP and is just going to be carved off by those who know better, so if displacing anything worthwhile to a more appropriate venue, and then putting links to said venue on the WP pages, is the way to go, I can't complain. I guess I'll have to take a look at that Wikicity... -Reichu 05:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Prerendered backgrounds
In the first paragraph it says the backgrounds were prerendered. This suggests (to me at least) that they were drawn in 3D, which they don't appear to have been.--Undc23 10:26, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, they're "prerendered" in sense that they're not rendered realtime in 3D or constructed from 2D tiles. I agree the wording is a bit misleading, but what would be a better wording? "static hand-drawn 2D backgrounds"? Suggestions, anyone? --Wwwwolf 11:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the term "prerendered" was what was used at the time of the game's release. I'm not convinced it implies 2D or 3D one way or the other, but I'd suggest "prerendered, two-dimensional backgrounds," personally. – Seancdaug 16:35, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * "Prerendered background" is pretty standard video game notation. Most video game nerds would understand it immediately, I imagine. "Prerendered" implies "generated in CG beforehand, as opposed to being generated by the in-game engine" (basically paraphrasing what was said already). I don't think a non-CG (including digital paint) background would be called "prerendered", although I might be wrong. -Reichu 01:04, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

i 2nd that one, in the industry, rendering in any media field is basically showing what the final look of w/e draft your on will look like be it final draft or rough draft, video, graphic design, 3d renders or even photoshop renders, so when a product is done in say photoshop and then put in the final product that is what prerendered is, so it still stands today. kinda a reiteration of the above, but more explainedTik 20:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * "Prerendered" is a pretty standard term for the use of 3D imagery that was rendered during production and not in real-time on your system. I fail to see the confusion. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 20:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Most prerendered imagery happens to be 3D, but that's incidental. As soon as 3D rendering technology became viable and available to developers, it's natural that they, as an entire industry, would shift to it. After all, they'd been working in 2D since the beginning. There was little demand or impetus to create prerendered 2D backgrounds, but I think they do exist. I believe Legend of Mana and SaGa Frontier 2 are both examples of 2D prerendering. I see this being similar to the situation whereby there are many people who have the mistaken impression that "FMV" refers strictly to CGI animation, when it is in fact any form of video that is recorded and played as a movie file, whether it's CG, hand-drawn animation, photography, etc. Druff 04:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

advent children
have any of you seen the new japanese animated movie about final fantasy 7 called advent children. first of all the graphics are amizing (<-- bad spelling) they are so life like in some scenes that it's almost freaky. For those of you out there who love anime or just love a little action in a movie once in awhile, i would really recoment that you watch this.

I am not certain when the dvd is going to come out but you should check the offical website at http://www.square-enix.co.jp/dvd/ff7ac/

there are also trailers there
 * Firstly see here: Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children; Secondly, Don't use talk pages as a chatroom or bulletin board. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 22:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation
I've added the katakana versions of most names, as y'can see. Since these are a pretty direct indication of the names pronunciations (once one understands how foreign sounds are approximated in Japanese syllabery, and all that), I've also taken the liberty of adding pronunciation guidelines to the more ambiguous or "less obvious" (to the average English-speaker) names, like Cait Sith, Tseng, Reno, and Lucrecia, in IPA. If anyone has issue with any of them, please bring it up here before changing any and I'll attempt to explain the logic involved first... -Reichu 15:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

FFX Connection
It is revealed in the FFVII Ultimania Omega guide and also long speculated by fans that FFX is a prequel to FFVII. There are many supporting facts that emerged in FFX-2 as with the little Al-Bhed named Shinra looking at data from the farplane. He said that this data could maybe be used in the future and this should make you think about Mako energy if you know FFVII. Furthermore, if you get Rin as guilty in a side-mission in FFX-2, he explains that he covered-up himself the machine malfunctionning, making him a supporter of machina, just like the Shin-Ra people. Anyway, go see this: http://www.willamette.edu/~ejohnson/nojima.htm Decide if it it good for the article or not, I just wanted to point those facts, unless they were already mentioned and I did not see it.

I would wait until something more concrete emerges before adding anything to the article. Though that isn't to say that it is necessarily false, it should just be confirmed. It may just end up being a homage to FFVII rather than a mutual plotline for all that's known about it now. Ereinion 19:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This is dubious to say the least. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:11, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a frustrating situation, because the information in question has appeared in two official pieces of Final Fantasy literature- the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania Guide, and the new Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Guide, both 100% official, published by Square Enix. This is where Kazushige Nojima (chief writer of FFVII, sole writer of FFVIII, FFX, and FFX-2) has made statments confirming that he intentionally connected FFVII and FFX via the Shinra character in FFX-2. The frustration stems from that while this information is absolutely official, it's only available in a Japanese print publication. Anyone who intends to deny this information and keep it out of the article needs to have access to those Ultimania guides and be able to read them. I can perfectly understand that the info sounds like a silly rumor spawned by nitwit fans, but rest assured, it's true. (Though Nojima did also say that he did it merely to amuse himself and that there's no need to take it seriously.) Druff 20:28, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

This seems like one of those tiny connections like Kain Highwind the dragoon from Final Fantasy II being related to Kain Highwind from Final Fantasy IV. No one ever made a huge fuss about that. Are we to say that Cid Highwind is related to them as well? ~ Hibana 21:59, 18 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't know, is there an easily verified official source of info which states that Cid is related to the Kains? No? Then I guess not. Druff 01:38, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm just saying that every Final Fantasy game is connected in some way, with little things like, oh say, chocobos and summon creatures. One reference from one character in a main-series game sequel might not merit it's connection to another main-series game. You can try to put it in the article if you can link it to a reputable source. Otherwise, it will be thrown out as fancruft. ~ Hibana 01:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)


 * In other words, information has to exist online in order for it to be valid in your opinion. I wonder how facts were checked in Ye Olden Tymes, in the dark ages before the internet existed? The information is on page 563 of the FFVII Ultimania Omega guide, published by Square Enix. Any major city should have a Kinokuniya or Asahiya book store that carries imported Japanese books. They have sample copies you can look at without buying. So check it for yourself. How much more of a reputable source do you want? Druff 06:32, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

No, it doesn't have to be online to be cited. I apologize if I made it sound that way. If you're really set on putting this out there, I suggest that you make a heading such as Trivia, since, according to what you say, Nojima did it to "amuse himself." See Citing sources on how to do it. ~ Hibana 12:59, 19 November 2005 (UTC)~

It is debated if this connection is offical or just something Nojima "imagined". I say, if in doubt, leave it out. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:34, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Though it would make an interesting story if a lot of the games could be tied together by the time Final Fantasy reaches its last entry. For example, some games have already been tied with the Crystal theme. Most of the summons are about the same. There are chocobos and moogles. Certain main character species make several appearances (Tactics Advance and FFXII). And then you have the Shinra connection. What if this was all just the history of a planet leading up to its most epic final story? Even if some of the games call the planet different names, not too big of a deal. Not every country on our planet call this planet Earth. And throughout history i'm sure its had its different names. My only point being that it would be great if the final Final Fantasy made all the connections.


 * Personally, I think that would suck. It certainly wouldn't work with most of the earlier games. But this is besides the point. This talk page is for discussing improvements to this article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 15:06, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

There's a slight clarification needed here, I think. Nojima didn't exactly say that he did it to amuse himself. It was more along the lines of "These are the feelings I have inside me." Basically, it was the intention that he wrote X-2 with. He put the narrative beginning of the concept in motion with X-2, described it in an interview in the X-2 Ultimania Guide, and then actually put the concept in motion in X-2: International+Last Mission, where the first stage of the concept (Shinra and Rin working together to extra Mako from the Farplane of Spira) was revealed to be in play. To top all of it off, the Ultimania Guide for VII speaks on the matter, describing Shinra of the Gullwings and his research, and then adding "The results of this can't be seen in FFX-2, but perhaps someday his descendants will found a company that supplies energy from the Planet?"

So the matter would seem to be official. You can read about it in-depth in a plot analysis to VII written by a fan named Squall_of_SeeD:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/final_fantasy_vii_ac_plot.txt

Perhaps a Prequels heading should be added to the article, seeing as how there's a Sequels heading? It could make mention of Before Crisis, Last Order, Crisis Core, and Final Fantasy X and X-2, though obviously it should be noted that X and X-2 are only prequels from a plot device standpoint and not in the sense that they're part of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII.

Ryu Kaze February, 2006


 * As I have pointed out earlier, There is no solid confirmation at all that Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 are related to Final Fantasy VII. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 12:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know you said that, but I'm not sure how much more solid it gets than the writer saying that he wrote X-2 with that intention, describing the concept in an interview in X-2's Ultimania Guide, setting the concept in motion in a new title released after that interview (X-2: International+Last Mission), and then the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide (which came out this past September) talking about Shinra of the Gullwings and saying that the results of his work can't be seen in X-2, but implying that they are in VII.

Technically, this isn't even a matter of fancruft or original research. This is taking VII/X/X-2's writer and Square-Enix themselves at their word.

I'm wondering if you're inserting a bit of personal bias here since you've said that you don't personally like the idea.

Ryu Kaze February 3, 2006
 * What "word"? This entire argument is predicated on a brief passage from an informal interview with Nojima, the precise meaning of which is ambiguous at best. Or, as the summary at the link provided says, "[t]here IS a connection... but as far as HOW there is a connection, that hasn't been worked out yet in much detail." All that amounts to, in the end, is a potentially self-referential in-joke on the part of one member of the production staff. To say that this makes it a prequel to anything is flatly incorrect, and the reference itself is little more than trivia, which is rarely encyclopedic. Also, please remember to assume good faith before you go and accuse dedicated Wikipedia editors of bias. – Seancdaug 02:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I would possibly agree with you if it were just the case of the interview alone. However, being that the springboard for the ideas described in the interview are actually present in X-2 and that the concept itself (as described in the interview) is actually *in play* in X-2: International+Last Mission (which came out nearly a full year after the interview took place), it seems clear that there's more to the matter than simply something to tickle Nojima's fancy. Especially when we consider the Ultimania Omega Guide for VII bringing up the matter, and how it does so.


 * The interview with Nojima and the placement of the concept in X-2 and X-2: International+Last Mission would qualify as *his* word. The fact that the matter is brought up in the Ultimania Omega Guide for VII (an official Square-Enix publication) -- and as I said before, the manner in which it is brought up -- would qualify as *Square-Enix's* word.


 * While Square-Enix could certainly retcon the matter or otherwise dismiss it altogether in the future, as it stands at the moment, it seems clear that they're allowing it, even if not publically approving it with a parade and fanfare. In any event, it hardly deserves a massive section in the article, but it seems like a rather notable subject to simply disregard, especially for an encyclopedia, which should serve as a general-interest template through which to offer materials that one could use as a launch point for further study. Chronologically-speaking, this matter has been established as a precursor to some events and/or plot elements of Final Fantasy VII. While there's plenty of dispute thrown against it on the part of some fans, all official indication so far *does* seem to suggest its validity.


 * Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I don't really see how it could be interpreted otherwise. If I am overlooking something, I would appreciate correction.


 * Also, my apologies to JiFish if what I said seemed unwarranted. It wasn't an accusation, but, rather, a genuine inquiry in the event that, perhaps, the editor theirself may not have considered that possibility. I wouldn't have brought it up if not for the previous statement of "Personally, I think that would suck" regarding connections. Granted, that may have been in reference solely to connecting the entire series, and it was possibly presumptuous on my part to assume that such sentiments could be applied to solely this connection, but, again, I meant no harm and apologize if any offense was made. I do, indeed, assume everyone present -- especially regular contributors -- have the intention to better the article.


 * With all that said, if the subject being discussed were only added to a Trivia section, that would possibly suffice. I still think that the article's rather incomplete and odd-looking with a Sequels section but not one for Prequels. Anyway, again, apologies to JiFish if any offense was taken. None was intended. My intentions are likewise to better this article.


 * Ryu Kaze 10:33 February 3, 2006

Alright, I've gone about editing the "Sequels" section into a "Comiplation of Final Fantasy VII" section, with mention being given to both prequels and sequels. Also, I've altered the inaccurate "Sequel" heading given to Maiden Who Travels the Planet to read as "Midquel" instead.

Also, I've added a brief mention of the possibility of X and X-2's status as prequels, and have done so in a NPOV way. I continue to feel that it is an issue worthy of being mentioned here. If anyone has a suggestion for improving the section further, I'm all ears.

Ryu Kaze 2:02 AM February 5, 2006
 * I'm really not comfortable putting this information under the "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" heading, because, well, it isn't. Even remotely. The Compilation is a distinct project, with its own production staff, and the term is used to refer to specific games. We actually had the discussion earlier with regards to Final Fantasy VII Snowboarding (which is also not a part of the series). As it is now, I'm still a bit skeptical that this information warrant inclusion at all, particularly when we don't have a English language resource to cite (this is, of course, not a requirement, but given the nature of the claim, I think it's important that we have a way for English language readers to verify it). None of which is a knock, necessarily, against your edit. I'm going to relocate the information to the Final Fantasy X-2 article, for the moment, where it seems to fit better. – Seancdaug 05:18, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, I was thinking through this, and it occured to me that the most obvious place for this information is in the Shin-Ra article, since the crux of the connection seems to lie there. Any thoughts? – Seancdaug 05:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

(Below comment edited at 12:36 AM February 5, 2006; edited again at 12:40 AM February 5, 2006)

Alright, sounds fine. I also agree that it seems a bit weird putting it under the "Compilation" header, but I certainly didn't want to add a new section to the article just for two sentences. And, yeah, that sounds good. The X-2 page or the Shin-Ra page might be a better choice on the whole. Final Fantasy VII brings to mind very distinct imagery and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is -- as you said -- a specific project with specific games, all filed under an umbrella title and -- if Kitase and Nomura's hints are any indication -- an overarching theme.

X and X-2 on the other hand bring to mind their own distinct imagery, and being that they were published after VII and haven't been included in the Compilation, it does make more sense to put this sort of thing on X-2's page, and even more to put it on the Shin-Ra page. It is, after all, a connection established with X-2's publication, and -- now that I've thought about it more -- feels more at home there since X-2 was published after VII even if it's supposed to be set before it chronologically.

So I guess that matter's settled. Hope I didn't cause too many headaches.

Edit: Yeah, the Shin-Ra article might actually be the best place. Based on what you just said, it would probably fit there even better. Good idea.

Edit2: I hope my edit got in before you read the comment. I agree with you on the Shin-Ra thing.

Ryu Kaze 12:34 AM February 5, 2006


 * By the way, nice edit to the Compilation section. It's far more aesthetically pleasant.


 * Ryu Kaze 1:05 AM February 5, 2006


 * I must confess that I do have bias in this area. But I don't believe calling for a solid reference is a biased action, considering the nature of the claims. Just remember that a single writer for a final fantasy game can't decide cannon for another game, in the same way a writer for an episode of Star Trek can't decide cannon for the whole series. I'd prefer it if had been offically confirmed (rather than hinted at) in a game. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 16:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, this situation is a bit different in that it's not like Nojima's trying to decide the canon for the series as a whole, or even for Final Fantasy III or Final Fantasy VI or something like that. He wrote VII, X, and X-2 (as well as VIII), so he's not exactly stepping on anybody's toes or trying to overrule what others have made with his own ideas.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what you mean by a "solid reference." As mentioned earlier, the fact that Square-Enix published that information in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide is proof enough that they're allowing Nojima's idea to stand, even if it's not exactly a seal of approval (personally, I would consider the fact that Square-Enix published it themselves as being a seal of approval). While it could have been better if a game went into a lot of detail on the issue, I don't really see how any of the titles they've been producing lately (FFX-2, FFX-2: International+Last Mission, Advent Children, Before Crisis, Dirge of Cerberus, etc.) could touch on the subject without heavily shifting the focus away from the core stories of those titles, which would have been poorly received by gamers for obvious reasons.

The concept making it into X-2 and X-2: International+Last Mission as much as it did is really as far as they could go without making gamers go "Wtf" when they saw it explained. Instead of having gamers complaining that Nojima's a hack and saying he shouldn't be allowed near a Final Fantasy again, we'd have gamers complaining that they butchered the story of whichever game that idea was inserted in "for the sake of trying to make it more popular by connecting it to VII." Skimping on details is a requirement for telling a specific story in a series. Heck, Advent Children doesn't even tell us that Sephiroth killed Aerith, that Rufus was presumed dead, that Cloud wasn't who he thought he was, or the other 98% of FFVII's plot. It throws out a brief mention to the past so that we know Sephiroth's a bad guy and that Shin-Ra screwed up the world while getting to the point of the specific story its trying to tell.

Anyway, Seancdaug's suggestion is probably a good one. I think putting mention of the matter on both the FFX-2 and Shin-Ra pages would be best, even if it is left off of this one. Since that's been taken care of, I don't really have anything else to add.

Ryu Kaze 7:40 PM February 5, 2006

FF7 SNES Prototype
Okay, someone added a section about FF7 SNES prototype. Screenshots of which can apparently be found at.

The thing is, I don't believe this thing ever existed, even if there are "conceptual" screenshots. The conceptual things look just like rip-offs of other SNES FF games. I seriously don't think Square honestly wanted to work on any new SNES FF games in mid-1990s - SNES was already really hot when FF6 came out and new consoles were coming soon afterwards. Furthermore these screenshots look like magazine scans. It is not entirely unheard of that game mags would knock together "what the next game in the series might look like" kind of things by mashing up graphics from previous games.

And I also question the source. Wasn't Warmech already thrilling us with the highly debated news about FF6's PC port? (See Talk:Final Fantasy VI)

Plus, if it were really real, wouldn't such things get a little bit more publicity than this? As in a press release from Square, or something else a bit more documented?

So, due to the fact that the whole thing is questionable, I'd prefer it that people would discuss this over here before adding such things to the article. --Wwwwolf 12:18, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * And furthermore, har, at the end of the referenced page: "The Super Famicom Conceptual Screen Shots were made by the magazine that displayed them, not by Square." So I'm ready to call this fancruft (from a game magazine staff, but still fancruft). --Wwwwolf 12:23, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Is Aeris Gainsborough actually 'incorrect'?
On both the Final Fantasy VII page and the Aerith Gainsborough page, it is stated that the character's name was "incorrectly translated" as Aeris Gainsborough and that the correct translation is 'Aerith Gainsbourg' or at least 'Aerith Gainsborough.' Aeris doesn't have a page; typing Aeris into the Wikipedia search bar leads to a choice between an Aeris Airline (a French discount airline that operated between 1990 and 2003) article and the Aerith Gainsborough article. The 'su' at the end of Earisu (a direct romanization) can be translated as an 's' sound or 'th' sound. A translation of 'su' to 's,' in and of itself, is one of two completely correct translations. It is true that official romanizations straight from the Japanese company (like the Japanese character manual) have her written as 'Aerith.' In Kingdom Hearts, her name is Aerith (although there is some debate among fans about whether the girl from Final Fantasy VII is the same girl in Kingdom Hearts). However, I do not know that it is fully accurate to say that Aeris is 'incorrect.' Earisu could go either way. Perhaps English translations of actual Final Fantasy VII sequels will shed some light on this subject.

Sadie 09:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as wikipedia is concerned, consensous is that the most recent translation is 'correct'. As for if the KH's Aerith if different from FFVII's Aeris. As far as I am aware, that's completely unfounded. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 11:14, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * They usually say that they're the same only in name and appearance only. As far as we know, the Kingdom Hearts Aeris didn't fight with AVALANCHE and die at the hands of Sephiroth, so she isn't Final Fantasy VII' Aeris...or so goes the argument. Hairouna 04:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * If you read the back stories behind the characters in Kingdom Hearts II, it says that Aeris came from Hollow Bastion. Also from the same world is Leon (Squall from FFVIII), so according to KH2 we can safely assume she didn't.Azhain 16:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Gameworld Name
hey there,

I've noticed that no where, in any of the articles about this game, give reference to a game world name. I've heard that it was supposed to be "Gaia." I know FF uses the name Gaia alot in its other games, but is there anything that can back this one up? I've found this article [] from IGN that reviews Advent Children and it refers to Gaia at the bottom of the first page. Are there any other significant sources, like magazine scans, that refer to the Planet as "Gaia"? Spencer 06:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Someone once showed me on the back of the Advent Children DVD case it mentions Gaia, but the game only refers to it as the Planet (capitalized). ~ Hibana 18:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

FF7 Prequel
Someone should add Last Order: FF7 to the Sequel/Prequel section. Wiki for more info. 128.6.175.96 20:10, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It already is. See Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. Eluchil  09:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Logo vs Box Art again
The recent edit making this article conform to WP:CVG replaced an informative, visible logo with 4 tiny versions of the same logo in the same place each surrounded by its own dressing; ugly and barely legible. If the style guidelines of a broad project trump a limited scope project like [[WP:PJFF] that can make decisions more suited to its limited number of articles, what is the point of smaller projects?

I'm bold. But of course, being an anon, my work will quickly be reverted. I'll ask then at least for the reverted to choose only one box art to put at the top, and to change all other FF articles to maintain consistency... or not       69.253.172.108 20:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Eight minutes for a no-comment revert? Tell me your eyeballs don't burn out of their sockets when you look at that mess that calls itself an infobox. 69.253.172.108 20:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * They don't. Spencer 21:08, 26 January 2006 (UTC)