Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Archive 7

something worth covering if we can source it
Righty, the Platinum / Greatest Hits copies were censored. Stuff like Barret's use of the word Shit became #!$# or whatever. I can grab screenshots but obviously they cant count as RS's as you can edit them. Theres other minor cosmetic changes such as the way Sephiroth dissolves / dies at the end of the game apparently. It might be worth noting which version the PC and PSN versions are based on   chocobogamer      mine   23:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Would a video capture of the these instances work as a RS? Hobbes543 (talk) 22:23, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Not really as it would not count as a reliable author.Tintor2 (talk) 01:42, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Source
15th anniversary interview in Famitsu. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I rewrote the reception/legacy sections
Hopefully the readibility and flow are much better now. --Niemti (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Reverted. No actual reasons involving the manual of style and current revision avoids writing in prose and uses short paragraphs.Tintor2 (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Not really, it's just based on the same content. But speaking of which, PSU.com has a lot additional sources: (#1 PSX game to be remade, twice),  (AERIS DIES),  (top 10),  (characters), etc. --Niemti (talk) 22:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey, what? This is just unreadable. --Niemti (talk) 22:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Wow, you reverted all my edits. OMG. So much for all my hard work. --Niemti (talk) 22:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Maaaaaan, loook what you did, cause you just caused: and more. And here I excepted some praise for all my work. Come on restore it. --Niemti (talk) 22:11, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * overlink
 * unsorted categories
 * confusing names of sections (a synopsis is a brief summary of the major points of a written work)
 * long paragraphs that are hard to read ("tl;dr") and pretty random

So I did a rewrite of my cleanup, is it good now? --Niemti (talk) 22:37, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Moby Games & GameFAQs ELs yes or no?
--Niemti (talk) 08:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Generally no. The current use of GameFAQs is acceptable because it describes the actual response of users in a poll. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:52, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

There's an "O" at the end
No idea why. --Niemti (talk) 17:00, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The A-class thread
Because apparently it's needed to be started, so be it. --Niemti (talk) 10:09, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It needs to be started because unlike GAN and FAC processes that have threads automatically dedicated to them when a review begins, A-Class assessment does not. You can think of it like how you have to put the GAN notice at the top of the Talk page in order for an article to be a GAN.


 * Regardless, I Support A-Class. -- JDC808  ♫  00:05, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * After reviewing the latest GA review and comparing the current article, I believe it still passes GA standards with flying colors and is close to being FA material; as such, I Support A-Class!  Salvidrim!   02:28, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

"Close", as in lacking what? --Niemti (talk) 02:38, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Having never done a proper FA review myself I may not be the best one to answer you, but the quality of the article seems highly comparable to other FAs I've read, thus I believe it is either ready for FA or close to it -- a Peer Review could give you pointers, or an actual FA nom would certainly tell you what needs to worked on, if anything.  Salvidrim!   02:42, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Ultimania development information currently not in the article
The following sources should be translated and used to expand the current incomplete article:


 * FFVII Creator Interview (from the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega)
 * FFVII Ultimania Omega Staff Comments (from the Ultimania website)

Anyone willing to help translate even one page is welcome! Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 21:35, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

"Weapon" vs. "WEAPON"
Hello

On 29 March 2013, User:Trut-h-urts man has made a revert that changed the word "Weapon" into "WEAPON", asserting "have you played FFVII? 'WEAPON' in caps is used numerous times." There are two important points here:
 * 1) Verification failed: The form "WEAPON" is not even once used in the game. I have taken screenshots from Ruby Weapon, Diamond Weapon, Emerald Weapon and Ultimate Weapon. In case anyone is concerned about the validity of these images or thinks the form is used in the game elsewhere, here is a package of saved games that helps verifying factual accuracy with little difficulty.
 * 2) It does not matter: In the end it does not matter whether "WEAPON" is or is not used in the game. According to MOS:ALLCAPS, the all-caps form of "WEAPON" should not appear in Wikipedia. (All caps is not allowed except in two cases.)

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 09:06, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It's been many years since I played the game, and I am no expert though I did finish the game, but the best I could find is 4 optional bosses refered to as W.E.A.P.O.N. (not WEAPON) from an FAQ . This requires further research as these are "optional" bosses. I agree that it should be reverted back to "Weapon" unless that user can find RS to support it as WEAPON or W.E.A.P.O.N. Tyros1972 (talk) 23:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I was unaware that a discussion had been opened here as well as on my talk page, so I an copy-pasting my response here.
 * I think we are confusing the original 1997 PS1 version with the more recent re-release versions on PSN and the Square-Enix website (basing my assumption on your screenshots, which appear to be from a PSP/PSVita). I'm certainly not concerned with the validity of your images - I think we're both acting in good faith. In the original 1997 release, they are, without a doubt, referred to as "WEAPONs" on several occasions, as well as in the official strategy guide (which I can provide screenshots of). I have dug up my copy from '97 and am searching for old memory cards at the moment to get a screenshot for you, really just to prove I'm not completely off my rocker. You should note that Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) also uses the "WEAPON" spelling, and both pages use "AVALANCHE" and "SOLDIER" (I am unsure if these carried over to the download version). This is purely speculative, but I imagine the WEAPON spelling was used to differentiate between the bosses and the weapons you equip the characters with.
 * Where I get into a bit of a grey area is the reasoning with MOS:ALLCAPS. The "WEAPON" spelling is neither newspaper headline, track title, court decision, proclamation, trademark, latin quote or used for emphasis. Furthermore, the policy does not say it cannot be used, only that we as editors should "Avoid writing with all capitals..." and "reduce...as appropriate". Also important is this direct quote from the top of the page "...words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in sources are treated as proper names and capitalized in Wikipedia" which applies to the situation. In my personal opinion, reducing the "WEAPON" to lower case is not appropriate, as it then becomes difficult for readers to differentiate between the bosses and the equipment. I will hopefully soon secure a picture of the WEAPON spelling in use in the game and will post it here once I have it. Best wishes for the Easter season. Trut-h-urts man  (T • C) 00:01, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello


 * My screenshots are from Microsoft Windows version, 1998 release. "AVALANCHE" and "SOLDIER" do appear in all caps in the video game but "Weapon" appear in title caps. Right now, I am taking screenshots of Dr. Gast interview with Ifalna (Aerith's mom and dad) and in this interview all references are "Weapon". (I will upload them shortly.) Anybody else is welcome to join in, since the saved games are available.


 * I am surprised about your treatment of MOS:ALLCAPS. If you take a closer look at the bulleted list there, unlike what you said, it is not the case in which all caps should be avoided; rather, it is a list of how should it be avoided in certain cases. It clearly says all caps should not be used. The only thing it leaves for us to discuss is whether we should use title case or normal case.


 * Best regards,
 * Codename Lisa (talk) 08:04, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, guys. Finally... I am done screenshooting. Since the sheer number of them was significant, I uploaded them to a shared folder. Here is the link:


 * https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8tNkKG_EzjZZVNiQ2kyNHFKS3M&usp=sharing


 * As always, if you doubt the accuracy of the shots, please feel free to use the saved games provided to reproduce your own shots.


 * Best regards,
 * Codename Lisa (talk) 10:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the due diligence, Lisa. I hope that clears up any confusion. Axem Titanium (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Legacy
Shouldn't the Still Remains' song "Avalanche" be included in the legacy section? It lyrics are direct references to FFVII. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.63.162.173 (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

For Dynamic IP-kun
In this game there are two female main characters, their names are Tifa Lockhart and maybe especially Aeris Gainsborough ("two lead female characters, Aeris and Tifa" - Game Writing: Narrative Skills for Videogames, p.117) who actually even initially "was supposed to be the sole female lead, and villain Sephiroth was supposed to be her first love, not Zack," but in the end we got the two (plus Cloud, who was male until FFXIII when he got a sex and name change). Aerith is probably the most important character from the narrative point, while Cloud is gameplay-wise most central and starting (and ending). At one point in the game, AERITH DIES, and Tifa even takes over from catatonic Cloud as the game's single most central character (and now a singular protagonist) for some time.

And yes, the concept of "multiple protagonists" actually exists in games (and even becomes a must-have for some). --Niemti (talk) 20:16, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * There are no sources claiming Tifa, Aerith or Yuffie are considered protagonists — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.68.113.100 (talk) 20:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * For example: (about Tifa, and this article used to be much more in-depth before they turned it into a simple gallery),  (discussing Aerith, but also Tifa, and note the difference with supporting characters). Now, Yuffie Kisaragi (whose article was created and over 90% written by me) is, of course, only a sidekick (and there are actually sources for this classification too, even if some articles include all of playable FFVII characters as "protagonists"l like that: (here they're talking about the protagonist status of Tifa, but apparently using the specific gamer jargon definition of the term with their "the majority of Final Fantasy VII's protagonists"). Morever, she's completely optional, so nope. And now you can go away to your Dynamic IP watchtower (and then login back in), because the world is at peace again. --Niemti (talk) 21:45, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Year hasn't even started and the Troll of the Year 2014 award goes to niemti. 201.68.113.100 (talk) 22:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Japanese awards?
According to Japanese Wikipedia, FF7 won two Japanese awards, shall we introduce these?--2400:8900:0:0:F03C:91FF:FE73:9C8B (talk) 03:27, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Plus, FF7 G-Bike?--2400:8900:0:0:F03C:91FF:FE73:9C8B (talk) 10:33, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Fix for link 52 "PlayStation's Final Fantasy VII Marketing Blitz Continues"
I found an archived copy of the Business Wire article here: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/PlayStation's+Final+Fantasy+VII+Marketing+Blitz+Continues%3b+Consumers...-a019701566 --Benad (talk) 19:16, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, replaced! -- Pres N  19:27, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

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Final Fantasy VII Remake- Already Released!
I notice the article states that FF7 remake will not be released and cites several references. However, this version was already released several years ago. I guess this article is not updated often? Should be fixed. Cheers.184.155.120.157 (talk) 16:40, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It is edited quite often. With a remake they actually mean a remake. Not the port on the pc. And later the same pc port with stream achievements. NathanWubs (talk) 17:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

There has been new talk in 2014 about a remake on the PS4, possibly even to be announced at E3 2015. Should I add the links? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultan42 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * If you have a reliable source that states the SE is working on a remake of FF7, please post it to the talk page. If you have a tiny blog post about an unconfirmed rumor that SE will maybe announce something a year from now, don't bother. -- Pres N  03:16, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sadly this rumor seems to be quite persistent with bad Photoshoped cloud picture and all. NathanWubs (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As of 2105, Square-Enix has announced a re-release of Final Fantasy 7 with updated graphics, new functionality and a new distribution method; that said, there's already an entire Wikipedia article about it XD 2001:569:BD76:EA00:D24:C194:918F:8CA7 (talk) 11:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed, FYI, you're responding to an 18 month old conversation. This has long since been settled. Sergecross73   msg me  14:48, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Port developers
Square Enix worked with D4 Enterprise to port it to iOS.

DotEmu handled development of the re-released PC version and PS4 version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brayden96 (talk • contribs) 12:16, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that none of them belong in the infobox, but in the article body instead. ~ Dissident93  (talk)  23:27, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

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Android
Will anyone update this to reflect that the game was released on Android on July 6th? Joe8609 22:31, 21 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe8609 (talk • contribs)

Piping.
Hey there Serge,

Sorry for not replying! When I saw the message you left me a week ago, I assumed you'd reverted my edit again already, and sort of gave up on it. I only now figured out that you'd left my edit unaltered for a week, which certainly puts a different light on things! So sorry about that.

Anyway, my feeling is that very few people are likely to know that "The Best" is a bargain reissue, and therefore it doesn't make sense to link one as the other. I think "The best" range is obscure enough to either:


 * 1) Not bother mentioning at all.
 * 2) If we do decide to mention it, it should be clarified in the text (ie, it should be followed by a definition, possibly in brackets).

So if we mention it, we might describe it as:


 * 1) "The Best" reissue
 * 2) "The Best" (a bargain reissue)

Or am I wrong? Are most people aware that "The Best" is a bargain reissue?

InternetMeme (talk) 14:21, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, in the interest of not edit warring, rather than reverting your third edit on this, I started a discussion and waited a week for you to respond, which you hadn't, so I switched it back today. Anyways, you're discussing now at least, so let's go by the actual edits - that might help get additional input as well:


 * 1) Original version: As seen here, where the text is bargain reissue of the International version of the game
 * 2) InternetMeme's first version: As seen here, displaying as  "The Best" international version of the game
 * 3) InternetMeme's second version: As seen here, displaying as the The Best version (a bargain reissue) of the International version of the game 
 * Of these three, I still think #1 is the best choice. #2 doesn't define what "The Best" means, which isn't readily apparent to most readers, while #3 is overly wordy and redundant (The addition of brackets and using the word "version" twice breaks the sentence's flow.) I just don't see an issue with #1. If the reader wants to know more about "Japanese bargain bin releases", they can click on "bargain rerelease" where it leads them to the "The Best (PlayStation range) to read more about discount releases. Sergecross73   msg me  14:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * " ... they can click on "bargain rerelease" where it leads them to the "The Best (PlayStation range) to read more about discount releases."


 * This is the part that I don't think works: I'd guess that hardly anyone would know that "The Best" range is a bargain re-release. "The Best" is pretty obscure. In my view, this leads to two possible solutions:
 * "The Best" range so obscure that we omit mentioning which specific type of bargain rerelease FFVII was reissued as, and simply link to the article about rereleases in general.
 * "The Best" range so obscure that we need to explain what it was in the text.
 * Personally, after thinking about it I don't think it warrants mentioning at all. But I'm pretty confident that most people don't know that "The Best" is a bargain reissue range, and therefore it doesn't make any sense to pair those terms together in a link.
 * Alternatively, if we include the description in the sentence, we could legitimately use a piped link to "The Best" if we were to use a more specific description:
 * "By the end of 2006, the Japanese bargain reissue of the International version of the game alone"
 * This narrows the focus down enough that the two sides of the pipe become synonymous, which is good enough for me.
 * InternetMeme (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

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Massive Retrospective

 * http://www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7 Sergecross73   msg me  19:31, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Path to FAC continued
Nice to see that people have been including some of the great source material that emerged recently.

The copy-edit has begun.

Lead/gameplay sections have been revised, and the synopsis has been trimmed by about 10 percent (it's pretty bare bones now; any more and we lose key elements of the plot). The out-of-universe sections have been inflated substantially due to new source material. I'll run through those at some point.

I'm back :P &mdash;Deckiller (t-c-l) 09:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Good work with the plot section. Last time I tried to edit it, I couldn't remove some details.Tintor2 (talk) 13:59, 10 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Regarding the budget: Yes, the List of most expensive video games to develop provides different figures than what is here, but maybe those values should be updated. The marketing cost on that page is $100M, but here it's $40 million. I would say the $40 million is more reliable because it's sourced to the Polygon retrospective, the $100 million is from Eurogamer. TarkusAB  14:19, 10 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I've done my very best to clarify several points in the "Release" section about whose who and what's what. Most of my work on this article has been devoted to finding and writing up sourced information. And that bloody plot synopsis. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * EDIT - Oh yes, someone appears to have expanded the "Later releases" section without corresponding sources to back up their claim. What was there before is what I could source. I've shifted it back, and any grammar tweaks can be made as necessary, but what was there prior to my most recent edit was not sourced properly and would have come under fire at FAC. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The work done so far is great. This article covers the reception and development in a comprehensive manner, and the in-universe elements are fairly succinct. It just needs some trimming and polish now :) Perhaps some additional information regarding critic "retrospectives"? (E.g. combat/plot have aged well but the character models haven't, according to some sources.) &mdash;Deckiller (t-c-l) 02:57, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

PLEASE REMOVE SPOILER IMAGE
please remove the spoiler image of aerith's death asap. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.67.213.187 (talk) 04:51, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed in the past. If you would like to contribute to the conversation, please do in one of the above sections. Otherwise, see All There Is to Know About the Crying Game and think hard about how it applies to this work. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it doesn't apply to this work. There are a lot of young people today who haven't even heard about this game and will play the remake when it comes out, many will get spoiled and many probably already got spoiled seeing how old this thread is. This picture shouldn't be here, it's like placing a picture of Ned dying on the Game of Thrones page and saying "this was reaaaly shocking to people who watched the show and didn't get spoiled on wikipedia" and justify it by saying "every single person in the world knows about that by know, think hard about it"... It was a rant, but I'm just pointing out that placing the pic is a real d*ck move and whoever decided to keep it should feel bad. 178.220.143.2 (talk) 13:49, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:SPOILER. Sergecross73   msg me  13:52, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Nomura should not be listed under Artists
Nomura was character designer and battle visual director. Naora was art director. That's like saying you should list Nomura on a ton of other games.

If Toriyama can't get under writers on XIII for designing the scenario and creating the characters, Nomura shouldn't be under artists for designing characters and battle visuals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brayden96 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm neutral in the matter - I just wanted the edit warring to end. But that being said, your argument isn't very coherent. You're assuming a lot out of the reader. What does Toriyama's role in Final Fantasy XIII have to do with this? Why is it comparable? Where is the discussion or guideline that backed that decision? Why should it apply here? Sergecross73   msg me  19:35, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand where you are coming from. In Template:Infobox video game, it does say this field is for the lead artist or art director and not for character artists. For most cases of character artists in games, I would agree. However, I think Nomura's artistic involvement in this game is highly notable. The characters he designed for this game are well-known and influential, and this game propelled him to stardom in the industry. That said, I think it's more effective to include his name in the infobox than not. Also, Other stuff exists is not a valid argument here. Whether Toriyama should be included in the XIII infobox is a separate discussion that should be talked about there. TarkusAB  20:51, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The infobox documentation for this should be adjusted in my opinion, as other game articles that have reached GA/FA (like Chrono Trigger/Dragon Quest) have included the character designer, as well as the art director/lead artist if applicable. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 00:19, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with and  in this matter. While he might normally not be listed, his contribution to the artistic direction of the game was more than significant enough for him to be listed with Naora. After all, Nomura designed the entire cast. And yes, featured articles that I've both seen and worked on include character designers. --ProtoDrake (talk) 09:08, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Final Fantasy 7 PC censorship
To the wiki users on the Final Fantasy 7 page.

I just wanted to let you know that in the 1998 PC version of Final Fantasy 7 there has been been changes made to the PC version including the profanity censorship involving the four letter "S***" word that was used by Cloud, Barret and Cid and the word "Wench" used by Tifa in the 1997 Playstation 1 being censored in the 1998 PC version with swearing symbols.

Were any of you Final Fantasy 7 fans aware of the PC censorship changes being made in the 1998 PC version? Let me know because I think there needs to be a censorship article line concerning what has been altered, changed and censored in the 1998 PC version of Final Fantasy 7. Here is some youtube example videos. [] [] — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrosswalkX (talk • contribs) 17:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)CrosswalkX (talk) 16:54, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Have any reviews or journalists ever mentioned this at all? These are pretty minor, trivial changes, probably not worth mentioning if the industry never took note of it. Sergecross73   msg me  19:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes there is a kotaku website that mentioned Profanity in Final Fantasy VII in "A Brief @!#?ing History of Swearing in Video Games" article. You can look it up here. [] Also a youtube channel "censored gaming" shows the comparison of some of the profanity replaced with more swearing symbols said by Cid Highwind in the Playstation 1 vs the PC censorship. also featured here. [] CrosswalkX (talk) 17:45, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The Youtube video wouldn't be a reliable source - they're usually not unless they're video's from professional video game websites. "Censored Gaming" is just random internet people. The Kotaku source is a reliable and usable source though. It could be used to to add it to the article, though, my personal stances is that, with all the things to cover about the game, this doesn't really strike me as a very important factoid... Sergecross73   msg me  18:40, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Non-free images
There are six non-free images in this article. Isn't that a lot for one article? SharkD  Talk  17:30, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I only count five. The rest are either WikiCommons or uploaded by individuals. Given the article's size, I don't think five is too many. --ProtoDrake (talk) 17:35, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no maximum limit; obviously as few as possible are recommended, but thats' where you look to see if they are all necessary:
 * Cover art - default allowance
 * Gameplay shot - gameplay is described, so this helps show it off
 * Character art - perhaps the weakest for inclusion since we have a separate character article but it is use to define the described art style, so reasonable.
 * THE SPOILER scene - Iconic scene in VG history, well-documented
 * The animated BG shot - the technical development of the BG is discussed in text
 * Music sample - reasonable givne the sourced attention to the soundtrack and theme motifs.
 * So I don't see a major problem here, but presuming a FA review, others might catch something. --M ASEM (t) 17:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Overzealous image-rights policies do more harm than good. If nobody has had an issue with it by now, I say let it be. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 20:06, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I should also add that there is an FAC going on for this (I forgot about it :) and the images were checked, even with one of two audio files removed. So it should be fine. --M ASEM (t) 21:17, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * How about the use of File:Sephiroth.png in role-playing video game? It is an important cultural icon in the genre. SharkD   Talk  00:44, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * No, not really. He's important to Final Fantasy 7, but not to JRPGs or RPGs in general to need an image of the character on the genre page. --M ASEM (t) 00:56, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. There are plenty of articles (cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=009782238053898643791:8naerdbd-oy) dealing mainly with JRPG villains. He appears on many best of/worst of articles of video game characters on sites like IGN. And, there aren't a lot of RPG characters who have reached the iconic status he has. There is a long cultural discussion in Role-playing video game, and he would be a good choice to figure prominently in it. This would seem like a no-brainer to me. SharkD   Talk  01:20, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Nojima should be getting more shoutout on here
I was reading this interview with Kitase http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/05/20/e3-2005-yoshinori-kitase-interview and he states "You mentioned Nojima-san. Did he do a scenario for Dirge of Cerberus?

Kitase: He will talk to the team because the world of FFVII is mostly his idea, so we didn't want to destroy that world."

With this reveal by Kitase, I don't think it's accurate to say that Sakaguchi and Kitase created the concepts of the Final Fantasy VII world. Kitase said himself that the world itself is mostly Nojima's idea. So I don't think it's right to credit Sakaguchi and Kitase as the creators of it. Thoughts and opinions? Dudejets89 (talk) 14:38, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, if anyone can help, I've for the longest time have been trying to find a image of Nojima that could be used for wikipedia. There are no images to be found on wikimedia commons. Would anyone like to help with this? Dudejets89 (talk) 14:41, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "I don't think it's right to credit Sakaguchi and Kitase as the creators" - does the article actually do that, though? The infobox lists Nojima first as the writer, the dev section goes into great detail about how Sakaguchi wrote the first draft that got almost completely redone, then Kitase took over, followed by Nojima soon after, and then talks about the specifics about ideas that the two came up with, with Nojima credited as the actual scenario writer and Kitase as director. The image pair lists Sakaguchi and Kitase as "who together helped create the story and gameplay concepts", which is true, they did help, it doesn't say they did it all themselves. I'm not sure where the article is listing the pair as the "creators" as opposed to the producer and director. -- Pres N  14:49, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, the way I read that, is that Nojima created most of the world of FF7. Shouldn't that fall under concepts/etc? To me this could mean everything from concept, and the world itself. Also, I thought most of Sakaguchi's original script changed. Since the director himself said that Nojima "mostly" created the world of ff7, I was wondering if anyone would be opposed to using Nojima picture stating this? I'm a big fan of FF7's world, and if Kojima created most of it, I think he should get a shout out or image put up of it saying this. if anyone disagrees, please reply. Also, I have no ideas how to do images on here, if we do get agreement on this, could one of the longtime posters here edit this and put this up? Would you do this PresN? Thanks for replying. I won't consider doing anything unless many agree. Dudejets89 (talk) 14:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * About the image, it's difficult to find some due to the developers being Japanese and the fact they have to be free. I mean, just look at Tetsuya Nomura. The man is responsible for basically all Kingdom Hearts games and is directing the remake of FFVII but there isn't a single image.

Tintor2 (talk) 17:02, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed wikipedia has strict guidelines on that. I wouldn't know how to find a free image to use on here. Dudejets89 (talk) 00:18, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Development budget
Per the Polygon article, they quote Tomoyuki Takechi who claims "We used about $40 million [approximately $61 million in 2017, accounting for inflation] for the game’s development. We probably spent $10 million of that just on the computer graphics." and "Just in the North American market, we probably spent more than $20 million on marketing. … Including Europe, probably $30 million. … Including Japan, probably $40 million.", so unless this was just badly worded, it does seem like it would add up to 80 million for the total cost of producing the game. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 02:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Potential data for Final Fantasy VII
I found some data I feel would improve the Final Fantasy VII Wikipedia article. For Game Informers March 2018 300th issue, they published an article on the "readers choice top 300 games of all time". They ranked Final Fantasy VII in the 7th spot.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2018/03/19/readers-choice-top-300-games-of-all-time.aspx

I noticed 3 books that I found were not listed in the FFVII Wikipedia page.

I would like to add the "Offical Final Fantasy VII guide" book to the related media and merchandise section.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/final-fantasy-vii-official-guide-david-cassady/1002470446

I found an art book called “FINAL FANTASY VII 10TH ANNIVERSARY ULTIMANIA ART BOOK” that is not posted in media and merchandise.

https://www.amazon.com/FINAL-FANTASY-10TH-ANNIVERSARY-ULTIMANIA/dp/B00RWSJYEG

I found another art book titled “Final Fantasy 25th Memorial Ultimania Vol. 2 Art Book” not listed in media and merchandise.

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-25th-Memorial-Ultimania/dp/4757537700/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=4757537700&pd_rd_r=M3Z9T3B7YES4X5SBZJSX&pd_rd_w=Dml4Q&pd_rd_wg=MmshQ&psc=1&refRID=M3Z9T3B7YES4X5SBZJSX

I am looking for some preliminary feedback. Thank youIsraellopez90000 (talk) 05:15, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Asking for feedback for Encyclopaedia Britannica award I would like to post
Hello everyone, I found an award for Final Fantasy VII which is posted on Encyclopaedia Britannica. There is a list of "Notable RPG's" from 1980 to 2010. This list only awards one worthy RPG for each year. FFVII was listed as 1997's notable RPG of the year, which shows this game has made such an impact in the world that even the scholars can not deny how impressive this game is. Am I the only Wikipedian that believes this award is worth mentioning in the FFVII article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Israellopez90000 (talk • contribs) 04:53, 14 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello. Thanks for posting here. While I think it would be nice, the article already has four paragraphs of awards. I wonder where is the best place to include them. I wonder FFVII's cultural impact could get its own article. If it is scholars material, then it must be worth material. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 12:33, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I was the original person opposed to inclusion. It appears to be less of a real "award", and more a chart that a EB writer added towards the bottom of an article about RPGs at some point. I don't think it worth including. Sergecross73   msg me  12:58, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I apologize for adding the Encyclopaedia Britannica post without presenting it to the talk page. However, I did post some information on this talk page on 3/24/2018 titled "Potential data for Final Fantasy VII" since I did not receive a response I assumed it was OK to post new information. As for the Encyclopaedia Britannica information, I posted that data because to get anything published on EB the information needs to be vetted and voted on by a group of scholarly editors, this list was not created and posted off of one person's opinion.This is why I believe what I posted is credible data for the FFVII article. I found other information that I would like to add to the FFVII article, such as, on June 6, 2000, IGN ranked Final Fantasy in 18th place for "Top 25 Games of all time". I believe there is still information that can be found that is not posted on this article. I agree with Tintor2 about possibly adding a new section so we can add more data.Israellopez90000 (talk) 03:20, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII remake section FYI
There is a comment in this article at the end of the FFVII remake section stating someone should add information that the remake will be changing the gameplay battle system. That is why I made that post.I had not realized this information was posted in the FFVII remake Wikipedia article.Israellopez90000 (talk) 16:26, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it should be major aspects of the game, not some random factoid about YouTube views. Sergecross73   msg me  16:38, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII VR Coaster
Hello everyone, Universal Studios in Japan is releasing a Final Fantasy VII VR Coaster. I think this would be an interesting addition to "Related Media and merchandise". Feedback on this addition would be appreciated.Israellopez90000 (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * A brief sourced sentence on that would be fine. Sergecross73   msg me  17:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback.Israellopez90000 (talk) 18:27, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Reception score box
The box is getting unwieldy, motion to reduce it to only contemporary PlayStation reviews. Yay or nay? TarkusAB talk 18:21, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Original PC port reviews (those pertaining to the 1998 release) should be kept, but neither iOS, Switch, or re-released PC/other platforms should be included. We're not supposed to include all scores, just 5-7 of the most standard sources plus aggregators (readers can see what all the rest of the scores are going to those). --M asem (t) 18:36, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Also would support this. TarkusAB talk 18:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * GR/MC look like they're missing reviews from some of the major '90s magazines. The ones that aren't listed on GR/MC should be listed here. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:02, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * To add, this is for the box. There is no reason a brief discussion of the reception of the re-releases on the other systems cannot be kept in prose, though obviously those should be focused on the quality of the port and not the original game. MC/GR links as necessary in the prose here are fine. --M asem (t) 18:55, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I think it would be a good idea to only include reviews from the late 1990s to early 2000s, and remove later reviews (late 2000s onwards) from the table. Maestro2016 (talk) 15:40, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I was going to disagree with you at first, but then I simply realized any retrospective review of the game can just belong in prose with no problem. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:20, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII is credited as "the game that sold the PlayStation", as well as allowing Japanese role-playing games to find a place in markets outside Japan.
I just removed this sentence. I tried looking for a citation for who actually said that instead of "is credited", and I could only find people quoting Wikipedia on this. Looks like we have citogenesis. The phrase was added back in 2009, without a source.

If someone can find a source for this phrase, it would be great to bring it back into the article. JordiGH (talk) 20:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * I had a little scout about the net, and the only place I can note it is in a book by someone named Dylan Holmes, referenced here for readability:


 * There is a note on page 65, stating:


 * "This is one of those quotes that has become so ubiquitous that the originator is impossible to find, although it's truth is unquestionable: Sony was fighting an uphill battle against Nintendo with its first console, and Final Fantasy VII was the chief early third-party title that swung the race in its favor."


 * I don't think the original person making the quote will ever be found on that basis, but if the book (A Mind Forever Voyaging: A History of Storytelling in Video Games) is acceptable, perhaps that can be used as the source? If not, it'll have to stay out unless someone can research better than I can. Narcosis17 (talk) 15:52, 9 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I want to believe, I really do, but this book was published after the 2009 date when the phrase was added to Wikipedia, and it cites no source either. If this really is such an obvious truth, it should be easy to corroborate it by comparing PS1 and FF7 sales. There should be an obvious spike of PS1 sales when FF7 happened. The fact that we can't find anyone performing this simple analysis is troubling. JordiGH (talk) 01:55, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I haven’t done any research yet, but I really find it hard to believe that there aren’t any sources that say anything to the capacity of this. “(Popular game) helped sell (video game console)” is a pretty common and generic sentiment. I feel like rewording is probably better than outright removal. Sergecross73   msg me  02:15, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Finding numerous sources that claim this game popularized JPRGs outside of Japan should not really be that difficult. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 02:29, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Super Mario RPG?
I remember reading somewhere that the disappointing sales of Super Mario RPG was one of the factors in Square not making the game for the N64 (other than the whole N64 using cartridges thing). Is this true? I also wonder if the reason the game was made as a 3-disc behemoth was done to piss on Nintendo for, among other things, censoring blood in some of the earlier games. MightyArms (talk) 22:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * According to that source, it's mostly a rumor.Tintor2 (talk) 22:55, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I’ve never read any confirmation on such a concept. Pretty sure that’s just fan speculation, which is often false or exaggerated. Sergecross73   msg me  00:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

CDs
An entire and quite detailed article on the game. But no where does it mention how many CDs the game was on for Playstation and PC. Vapid9 (talk) 07:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Current consensus (which I do not entirely agree with, incidentally) is that the number of discs a game comes on is trivial information and should not be mentioned in WP articles unless it's relevant to some significant fact about the game's development or release.--Martin IIIa (talk) 19:36, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Spoilers
Great job spoiling the story through screenshot of the girl's death — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.169.147.251 (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi, you may want to read some information about spoilers in Wikipedia articles, at Spoilers. However, I moved the image from the scenario section to the plot section, where readers may be less surprised to see a spoiler image. ↠Pine   ( ✉ )  19:31, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I've restored the image, per WP:SPOILER. We don't remove content purely on complaints of it being a spoiler. If you don't want spoilers on a game, don't go reading sections related to the story. (And come on, its a 22 year old game...) Sergecross73   msg me  19:44, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I did not remove the image. I moved it to the plot section. I think that having the image in the scenario section is OK but the plot section is a little better. ↠Pine   ( ✉ )  19:47, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Normally that would make sense but the scenario section has significant sourced commentary regarding her death and the impact it had on development so it appears to be the most logical place to put the image. Besides anyone reading that section would have already have found out that she died.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 23:09, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Hardy Daytona bike
Should there be commentary about Cloud's Hardy Daytona bike based on the Harley-Davidson. The wiki implies there is commentary about it in the Ultimania book.Tintor2 (talk) 23:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Dated Statements
This article has a cleanup tag for “potentially dated statements from April. Anyone know what could be causing it? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:17, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed; the As of template does that. That template is supposed to be for "as of today" statements that need periodic updating, not "as of 1000 AD" historical statements, so I removed it. -- Pres N  21:14, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Open source engine
Added a small line about Q-Gears project, to re-implement the FF7 engine on open source principles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.121.29 (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * We need this to be sourced from a reliable third-party source, of which Reddit is not. --M asem (t) 01:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Not the 1st Final Fantasy Game in Europe?
In this article, there's a sentence in the Release section that claims this is the 1st Final Fantasy game released in Europe.

"The game was released in Europe on November 17, becoming the first Final Fantasy game to be released in Europe."

This sentence cites 2 sources, the 2nd of which shares this claim.

This isn't really true. Long before Final Fantasy VII was released in Europe, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest was released in Europe as Mystic Quest Legend on the SNES in October 1993.

During the same year, Final Fantasy Adventure was also released on Game Boy as simply Mystic Quest.

Now, neither of these games are main entries, and Final Fantasy Adventure is technically a rebranded version of the precursor to Secret of Mana, but Final Fantasy Mystic Quest has always been a Final Fantasy game, even if it's not named Final Fantasy in Europe.

I think this sentence is going to have to be reworded to be less misleading at the very least.

69.118.249.251 (talk) 16:15, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Add a qualifier like "main-line" or "numbered" in and it's pretty much resolved. Sergecross73   msg me  16:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Okay, I added the qualifiers. 69.118.249.251 (talk) 04:52, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Cyberpunk?
Just wondering in what ways this was considered cyberpunk? Visually? Qualitative aspects of the writing? Lore-wise (in-universe technology)? Do we think that just bc Barret has a robo-arm, there's a dystopian undercity, Shin-Ra troops wear fancy goggles on their helmets, eco-terrorism & liberation, that this warrants the cyberpunk label? It's too low-tech, not actually visually gritty enough, and while the content fits that genre's bill, something about its overall tone does not quite do so.

Ofc, I use Neuromancer as the hallmark of what constitutes Cyberpunk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jark-Gluon-Plasma (talk • contribs) 00:20, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Wait, is this related with unsourced content? Because if not this could count as forum talk not allowed in Wikipedia.Tintor2 (talk) 00:39, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Please see the "Themes" sub-section. Numerous sources talking about "cyberpunk" qualities of the game (like #254). I haven't seen counter-arguments from sources saying that it isn't cyberpunk, but I haven't looked very hard. This needs to be examined for posterity. Jark-Gluon-Plasma (talk) 02:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I had the same thoughts as the original poster when I saw it a while back. I don't believe it would be accurate to categorize this as cyberpunk. Cyberpunk typically entails an element of realism even if it's stylized and futuristic. This is a high fantasy game with futuristic elements. A significant portion of the game exists outside of the futuristic, dystopian cityscape and in a mostly fantasy world, too. It could be said that a theme of cyberpunk is a general inability to escape that dystopian reality, providing that quintessential feeling of oppressiveness the genre is known for. This game provides reprieve from it although it is an important component to the storyline. Also, not to be confrontational but we probably want to be careful about labeling things retroactively just because a genre is popular again. The sources in the "Themes" section are articles written during the hype around Cyberpunk 2077, so naturally people would be primed to be overgenerous with the label. One of the sources even specifies it's talking about the city's cyberpunk themes (which could be fair if we're generous) as opposed to the entire world itself. 2601:346:C281:79F0:F1C8:1322:48E5:F7DC (talk) 05:44, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Disagreement over "become a god" in the intro
There seems to be a disagreement between multiple people over a sentence in the first paragraph of the intro which currently reads (at the time of this writing): "Events send Cloud and his allies in pursuit of Sephiroth, a former member of the corporation who seeks to destroy the planet." Alternately, others have proposed an addition, which changes the sentence roughly to: "Events send Cloud and his allies in pursuit of Sephiroth, a former member of the corporation who seeks to destroy the planet and become a god." Before this, the sentence read more or less like the first version and was unchanged and uncontroversial for a long time. Apparently, there have been back and forth disagreements over the edit and a "vote" that happened at some point. I happened to edit the sentence back to the original after this disagreement took place, being completely unaware of any disagreement or discussion. I feel that, seeing as this seems to be controversial and the original sentence did and does well as a general description, we should keep it in its original form. I've posited to another user on their talk page that if any person wants the additional piece of information, they're free to read the "Synopsis" section where the relevant plot points are discussed. 2601:346:C281:79F0:3941:4B47:1598:B74D (talk) 07:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

World Video Game Hall of Fame
Inducted in 2018: --Mika1h (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)