Talk:Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children/Archive 1

Caption
I really think the caption of "Rufus Shinra" should be removed from beneath the picture of the man in the shroud, or--probably a better option--moved further down the page. The way it is right now, a person scrolling to read to the bottom of the information bar at the right (which contains vital movie information, but no spoilers) can easily stumble upon the clear spoiler without meaning to (I should know, it happened to me). While the spoiler tag is very apparent for the overall section, the information bar does overlap into the spoiler area and makes that a dangerous place to put the picture and caption. Large amounts of spoiler text are easy to ignore, but a sole picture and caption, stumbled on, can easily be picked up by the eye inadvertently. I think moving it down the page a bit or in some other way changing that would prevent such an occurence. I'd do it myself, but have no idea how and wouldn't want to interfere with anyone's work on the page should they disagree. However, I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to ask. --S.Reemas

More Info
June 16th 2005 - Renegade Zero: I completely revamped the entire page including release dates, pictures, plot summaries etc.

We desperatly need more information on this film.

The link to the preview script is sadly dead... Does anyone have a copy of the document ? I can host it on another server...

Preview Script?
Are you talking about a transcript of the preview videos shown at the Venice and Montreal film festivals? I have a copy as well as an audio recording. Also, I believ that Rufus Shinra should be included in the returning characters list.--IdoAlphaOmega 06:28, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

do u know that rufus is a returning character? if u have a statement or proof that he is it should be added (with a link somewhere) however if not then we should wait till the film is released so we can add/remove people. since the movie is very close to release we might as well wait.

Release date change
I changed the release date to that which is on the official trailer on the AC website. It says the date for japan is 1 day after that of america. Not really a dreadfully important detail but i thought it should be corrected just to be accurate. -Tik

Some sites have pre orders for August 14. -- Psi edit

I believe it, your referring to places like suncoast or other movie stores im presuming? if your know the names of some of the companies you could list one or 2 and state that preorders are being taken place, this would be helpful but would have to be removed post-release.

Never mind I was wrong. -- Psi edit

Lol :( well its ok, i bet pre-orders will take place soon so you werent completely wrong, just got your date mixed up ;) -tik

Yeah I know. Best Buy has a preorder. I just misread the date. -- Psi edit

Actually does anyone know exactly where to get a DVD copy of the movie when it comes out? So far Gamestop is releasing the DVD at November which I think is absurd. -- Psi edit

Thank you to whoever changed the wording for the original release date in hte opening paragragh, if anyone read the EGM for this month it had an interview with i think the release date somewhere in the article. i dont have it in front of me but yeah november is the new target area for release date, hey Psi, u may be able to stop at any dvd store who regularly gets new titles like best buy and circuit city. gamestop online maybe but not the store.Tik 15:18, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Someone had changed the USA release date to "Never" in the sidebar and I returned it to "TBA". Saqrfaraj 05:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

English Translation


Not that I doubt a translation but has there been one officialy announced? I ask this because the all trailers are in Japanese and have subtitles. Except the one with english Narration (which makes an english version inevitable) -- Psi edit

yes the dubbed version began recording just month(s) ago so they will be finished for the 2 to launch simultaneously, hence the release dates. voice actors have yet to be confirmed though. i think they did the japanese version first to make sure everything was working out and not to waste money on english translation only to go back and change it, which makes since. -Tik

Thats good. Thanks for confirming. -- Psi edit

Like all there other Final Fantasy titles lately, AC translation was pushed back too, so the simultaneous launch was obviously wrong, but i know it will be out sometime soon, you know Square. If you can watch the subbed version, its better (can be acquired through alternative methods if you catch my drift, thats how i watched it myself) but i am gonna buy the english version Tik 19:20, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Cinema
I've read from some FF websites that Final Fantasy VII; Advent Children will be released in cinema for Japan on 8 and 10 of September 2005 and the mondial's before-première (I don't know the exact term, I'm not english, but you should understand) in Europe on end-2005 at the 62nd Festival of Venise. If you go to the Japanese website of Advent Children and go to the info section's 2nd page, you can see 9.8 and 9.10 which must stand for these two dates, but I can't confirm they're talking about a cinema release date as I don't understand Japanese. – DarkEvil 14:02, August 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm a native Japanese, but I can write poor English... I translate literally.
 * September 8, JAPAN Premier (previewing event)
 * September 10, private screening　(opening to the public)
 * "JAPAN Premier" is preview event's name.
 * Darc 15:14:49, 2005-08-05 (UTC)


 * Well, thanks for the help! This should confirm a Japanese Cinema release date. – DarkEvil 15:39, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

– Sadly though, it will most likely not be seen across shores. Even if it is, the likelyhood of it reaching non metropolis areas is very very low. We will just have to get it on DVD.--216.212.238.38 19:59, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Rufus revert
How do you know this is rufus, do you have proof? If you have a SE comment or a character states the person in the wheelchair is rufus in the trailer than you can keep the revert with link to source, however if you have no proof its no good and shouldnt be included.-Tik

Well it would mean the world to me to have your permission to edit this article, so I'll play along. "From Wikipedia: Rufus Shinra returns as a character in the upcoming Final Fantasy VII movie sequel, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, produced by Square Enix. In previews and trailers, Rufus is seen sitting in the wheelchair shrouded in a blanket. He is said to be at this point suffering from the last stages of the disease called Geostigma. Rufus tries to enlist the help of Cloud Strife, but he also appears to be in league with the three silver-haired men, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, who are enemies to Cloud in the movie." Also, I take it you haven't seen the 25-minute preview of Advent Children, because that shows you who the man in the wheelchair is, along with Rude referring to him as "Mr President." Do I have your permission? — Cua HL   16:55, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Edit: and can you sign your talks comments? It's four tildes - ~ — Cua HL   16:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Edit 2: It's even in the article itself - Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children "The president of the former Shinra, Rufus is also residing here in a wheelchair. He is also infected with Geostigma and must use a wheelchair. He is using the Turks; Reno and Rude to bodyguard him and also hires Cloud to be one too. He is undergoing searches on the effects that Sephiroth's death had on the Planet." — Cua HL   16:59, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

ok then, i was wrong, i hadnt heard anything about this in the news lately so i just wanted to keep from having people put rumors in here, u saw the above topic about rufus, i just figured it was something like that. Didnt mean to come across as rude but you know a lot of fanboys come on here and change things that they just want to see but have no fact. But you proved your point and i support it then, so its cool.Edit sign like this?Edit: resigned article to test signature Tik 12:54, 13 August 2005 (UTC)Tik


 * It's no problem. Be assured, these pages are being watched by WikiProject Final Fantasy. I have most of the Final Fantasy articles on my watchlist, and what I don't have others do.. so you'll probably see any vandalism/POV/fancruft removed that same day it was edited in. We still need help though, so if you're interested in the Final Fantasy series and you think you can help the cause why not join us? You'll have to get a registered username first (which in turn will get you more respect than using your IP address anyway). I'd put this on your talk page but I think your IP changes regularly? Take a look and see what you think though — Cua HL   23:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey there, i think this Rufus talk is quite messy, i couldn't understand by reading it.. Anyway, i saw the movie, and i really like Final Fantasy, (both the movie and the videogames), so, i'd like to join to... Is there an organization already? Oh, and by the way, yes, the guy in the wheelchair, altought looking like the Emperor on SW, is Rufus. - Lettucefolk  23:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Too many images?
Does anyone else think that there are too many images on this page? There should really only be like 4 or something. It just seems like too much. Thunderbrand 19:32, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, a lot of the images should just be put on the Commons. --Vyran 19:45, 10 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I highly doubt that they've been released on a free license. Or has Commons changed its criteria for inclusion? - Vague | Rant 10:58, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Leak
Should the article include information about a rip of the DVD being leaked onto the Internet? - Vague | Rant 10:58, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, its pretty notable to get a mention. Also, the lead paragraph seems a bit long. Maybe putting in a line break somewhere in there? Thunderbrand 16:05, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I noticed there's nothing about the leak there (though I haven't looked to see if it was added and reverted), but in my opinion it's not noteworthy at all -- it was pretty much inevitable anyway. It doesn't seem like it's appropriate for Wiki anyway. Melodia Chaconne 21:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It's been more than leaked to the internet. I saw a DVD copy of the movie for sale at a convention in Lancaster. Heh... (I don't have a username, so... yeah)

So who's Denzel?
So who's the character of Denzel, and why does he look so much like Cloud? --Brasswatchman 17:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Just some orphan kid Cloud and Tifa adopted. - 211.28.78.104 08:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


 * if you google "On the Way to a Smile" you could find the translated "Case of Denzel," which tells his backstory and how Cloud found him. ohh and its on adventchildren.net --Spencer1337 16:59, 11 January 2006

Cleanup needed
This article needs some attention pretty badly, IMO. First of all, it's wayyyy too image heavy, and since they're all copyrighted images, I'm getting a little bit nervous that we're going to start attracting attention copyvio attention. To sum up, if we're going to claim fair use, we need to ensure that "the amount of copyrighted material used should be the bare minimum necessary to serve its point on Wikipedia." Thirteen images is pushing it for a single film. The other problem is the story summary. The average length of plot summaries for film-related articles is two or three reasonably brief paragraphs. We've got twelve lengthy paragraphs, which is far too much detail for a general interest encyclopedia. I'd have made the changes myself (and will do so later, if no one else volunteers), but I haven't been among the most actives editors for this article, I wanted to voice my thoughts before committing to anything.... Thoughts and/or comments? – Seancdaug 02:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I for one have no objections, though I haven't worked on the article. Melodia Chaconne 03:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Mysterious Wolf
Does anyone know who the wolf is that stands beside Cloud before he wakes up in the church (toward the end)? The only one I can think of is Seto, but it doesnt make any sense. If anyone does know, please share.

It's a figurative wolf, some claim it's a reference to Zack, others claim it's just a reference to Cloud's 'lone wolf' persona.

The wolf is a representation of Cloud. His bike is called Fenrir, a mythical figure associated with wolves, and the wolf is seen in the film representing Cloud's true nature, eg, at the pool where Aeris was killed, lying next to him in the Church, etc. Cloud's buckle is also a wolf's head, if you're wondering. Valenkorps.

It believe it symbolizes Zack, it is hanging around Zack's grave near the start of the film, and Zack is speaking to Cloud later when you see the wolf again.--Undc23 10:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The Director's Commentary on the DVD confirms that it's a representation of Cloud's guilt. - Squall of SeeD

- Yes, the Wolf IS a reference to Zack, as I read somewhere that it is his "symbol" or persona as it were. You also see it in a scene at the Forgotten Capital. It's on the shore of the pool where Kadaj was standing hours before, when he was talking to the kids. It disapears behind trees as the camera pans - Tapok


 * No, the wolf ISN'T a reference to Zack. In any form. It was officially stated by Nomura as being a representation of Cloud's guilt. It appears in places where he has felt guilt (Zack and Aerith's places of death, and in Aerith's church where Tifa was beaten up and Marlene was kidnapped because Cloud wasn't there).


 * Ryu Kaze 05:24 January 28, 2006

On The Way To A Smile merge
I say no to the merge to be honest.. I think the article has potential — Cua HL   18:23, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * There is some existing dicussion on the merge here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Final_Fantasy. Personally I fell that as a short story, it isn't notable enough for it's own article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 20:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

The Manual of Style says an article should have at least to good paragraphs else it should be merged or added to a list. There is potential for more than two paragraphs, and it is definantly a seperate thing from Advent Children.--Undc23 10:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * At this point, though, there are only two paragraphs, and the second one is almost certainly way too detailed for our standards. And length isn't really the critical issue, anyway: an article can be as long or as short as we make it. The question is a) is the article of sufficient length without resorting to material not of interest to non-fans, and b) is the article topic itself noteworthy enough to warrant an entry? I could probably write a twelve paragraph article about my seventh grade English teacher, but she's still not encyclopedia-worthy. – Seancdaug 16:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe that is does connect directly to the Advent Children storyline, therefore making it part of the movie. It would be wiser to merge than create its own article. And it is part of the official website, therefore enforcing the fact that it is just a little bonus info for the movie. I vote for merged. Nemesismo

We should wait and see what Square Enix and Nomura have planned for it. However, since it isn't considered a seperate entry into the Compilation of FFVII, and is inherently associated with Advent Children because of Denzel, it should remain within the Advent Children article. If it gets much bigger, then maybe it will deserve a page of its own. I vote Merge. Valenkorps

Kadaj article
I've removed the Kadaj article again, for the same basic reasons I've stated earlier. As a frequent contributor to Articles for deletion and Featured article candidates, I can testify to the fact that one of the most frequent complaints about video game related articles is the tendency towards fancruft. The general rule of thumb espoused by most is that characters who appear in only one work do not transcend that work, and therefore do not deserve their own article. In other words, any discussion of Kadaj is, by its very nature, a discussion of Advent Children, and therefore the material belongs here. The only reason to create a seperate article is if it becomes necessary to split this article for space reasons. As it is, there's simply not enough to say about Kadaj, and this article is nowhere near long enough, to justify that. As for the comment "many characters of less importance have their own page," I'm not really convinced that's true, and, even so, I and others have spent a great deal of time moving Final Fantasy-related articles "of less importance" to more appropriate locations (particularly the Final Fantasy Wiki) over the past several weeks. Wikipedia is a general interest encyclopedia, not a fansite, and it is no one's interests to decentralize over several articles information that can and should be included in one. It makes it harder for readers to find the information they need, and harder for editors to keep track of what has already been said. – Seancdaug 20:33, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

If the pages on Kadaj and other minor characters are removed, should there be a "List of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children characters" page? Or perhaps a subsection of List of Final Fantasy VII characters? --Undc23 10:11, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I was attempting to tidy up the "Jenova" article somewhat, and I saw that Kadaj and his two "brothers" are mentioned regarding their attempt at a Jenova Reunion. While I do think that the events in Advent Children deserve mention on Jenova's page, it's beyond my current level of expertise. I started to scribble out a revision, but my mind eventually blanked out (perhaps due to the fact that it's 3 in the morning). Here it is in case anyone more versed in theories regarding the nature of these silver-haired guys feels inspired to get something a little more "authoritative" about them into Wikipedia. (Unless this has already been done and I'm just being horribly negligent.) Feel free to maul this if it seems useful enough:


 * [start]The exact nature of Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, the silver-haired antagonists of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, is never spelled out: They are referred to only as Sephiroth's shinentai (思念体) -- translated as the rather vague "spirits" in one fan translation -- and a proper understanding of the term might elucidate the matter. However, they could possibly represent three former members of SOLDIER (Kadaj refers to Rufus as "Boss") who lived beyond the first Reunion, only revealing themselves two years after Sephiroth's "defeat". In the film, their goal is, indeed, to initiate another Reunion, bringing all of "Mother's" cells together and recreating Sephiroth to fulfill the destruction of the Planet and everything on it. Ultimately, Kadaj brings about his "own Reunion", assimilating the head of Jenova (or, at least, what remains of it) and becoming the new vessel of Sephiroth, however briefly.[end]


 * However, that doesn't get into other Jenova-relevant stuff like Geostigma or how her head can possibly fit into that box. (I suppose they cast "Mini" on it.) Also, it suddenly occurs to me that Kadaj's goal to "get back at the Planet" is somewhat inconsistent with Sephiroth's own plans, to utilize the Planet as a vessel to reach a new world (which also has nothing to do with Sephiroth's original plan involving Meteo and becoming a god by absorbing the Lifestream...). On a pointless side note, Kadaj and the others are all left-handed -- suspicious, considering the only other left-handed FF7 character is you-know-who. -Reichu 07:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The FF7:AC FAQ suggests "remenants" as a more accurate reading of "spirits". One interpretation would be the Silver Haired Men are the shattered remains of Sephiroth awaiting "reunion" -86.134.150.119 10:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The reason that Kadaj and company don't deserve their own article is because they do not transcend their source material. Any discussion of Kadaj is, by its very nature, a discussion of Advent Children, so the logical place for information about Kadaj is in the Advent Children article. The only reason to create a new article is for space management concerns, which is really not an issue with this article: properly trimmed, there should be more than enough space to deal with Kadaj and every other character within the bounds of this one article. – Seancdaug 20:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes'm, I can see that. I'll probably take a knife to that out-of-control plot summary to make room for some subsections on elements distinct to the film, like the new characters (since something on the "Silver-Haired Men" is sorely needed) and other things, like Geostigma, Bahamut TREMOR, Shadow Creepers, etc. Unless someone else gets to it first. -Reichu 16:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

i agree as well, Final Fantasy articles in general are the most fancruft heavy in terms of edits and Anon additions, not too mention FF7 edits. Some people are just way too passionate to think through there edits and realize its a nice notion but not wiki-ready.Tik 20:28, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Gallery???
Why do we need a gallery at all? The problem was too MANY pictures, most of which are not public domain, not that we needed to group them for easy viewing. I suspect we need to get rid of the gallery completely and trim the rest of the pictures down to at most 3 or 4. Nezu Chiza 02:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Why is it such a problem (I added the gallery) that there are so many pictures? I dont think theres any real reason to get rid of them. -- Psi edit


 * It's very likely a copyright violation: we have to be careful how many fair use images we use, and in what capacity we use them. One or two images for illustrative purposes are acceptable, but the large gallery we have now probably isn't. – Seancdaug 03:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I dont know how to determine how many images we should have. How do we determine which images are kept and which arent? -- Psi edit


 * Personally, I would suggest eliminating the gallery altogether, and only using images which we can effectively work into the flow of the article. I would think three screenshots is probably the most that is appropriate, under the circumstances. As for which images we keep and which we lose, well, be bold. It probably doesn't matter too much, in the scheme of things, which images we have, provided we don't have all of them. – Seancdaug 20:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah thats what I meant. -- Psi edit

I noticed that most articles that have a lot of pictures have very small pictures and they do not detract from the article, be it copyright or not, be careful about the copyright ones though we dont need copyvioTik 20:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I would just like to add that I didnt upload the images. I just found them all from the previous revisions and put them together. -- Psi edit

Bahamut Sin vs. Bahamut Tremor
This article calls Advent Children's incarnation of Bahamut "Bahamut SIN", whereas the Bahamut (Fictional) page calls it "Bahamut TREMOR". This obviously needs to be resolved somehow... -Reichu 18:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, nevermind! Google yielded the answer. Here's the scoop: The new Bahamut is called, in Japanese, バハムート・震 or バハムート・シン. They're both the same thing, really; the kanji 震 ("quake, shake, tremble, etc.") is pronounced shin, which is シン in katakana. "Bahamut TREMOR" was obtained by translating the kanji, whereas "Bahamut SIN" was obtained by assuming (quite reasonably) that the katakana represented a foreign word, ergo, "sin". It's not clear why the two versions of the name exist... The latter provides significantly more ambiguity than the former, as shin, in katakana, can be taken to mean a helluva lotta things. Even more confusing is that both versions are used in reference to the same KOTOBUKIYA figure.


 * In any event, "Bahamut TREMOR" is probably the way to go, unless the English version of the name is officially something else. -Reichu 05:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. Thanks for doing the research legwork, Reichu! – Seancdaug 20:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've edited spelling in the summary to "Bahamut shin" until an English version is released - 86.134.150.119 09:42, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Geostigma
Where does the word "Geostigma" come from? Does it appear anywhere other than in a fan translation? Ken Arromdee 06:44, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It was in the sub on an E3 trailer, so it's the official translation of "star scar syndrome" (or whatever the literal translation is, I forget).--Undc23 12:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

i think they mentioned the word in the jap version as well, not the subtitle but the audio track. ill watch the movie again and tell u.Tik 20:34, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

On his way to Healin, Cloud passes a sign, which describes Healin as a "Geostigma Sanatorium", so the word must be rather official. 62.107.182.48 18:57, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

The Geostigma article was in serious need of revision. It inaccurately stated that Geostigma was simply Jenova's cells. The film clearly explains that Geostigma was the negative side-effects that arose from the body overexerting itself in an attempt to remove Jenova's cells from within. That's a huge difference.

Further, the article stated that -- as a result of the Lifestream having been permeated with Jenova's cells at the end of Final Fantasy VII -- newborn children were being born with Geostigma. It even goes on to say that only children were getting Geostigma (with Cloud as the only exception). This is all inaccurate, as On the Way to a Smile very clearly displays that Geostimga was a result of the Lifestream carrying Jenova's cells to the surface population. Further, many adults had gotten the condition as well, including Rufus Shinra. I've corrected these issues.

--5:46 January 28, 2006

A much needed update to the Geostigma section, along with some equally much needed clarity and sense of direction. Ryu Kaze 15:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Voice Actors and "Seiyu"
1- I dont see why to use a Japanese word instead of a English one, in other words, Why not call "Japanese Voice Actor" instead of "Seiyu", not everyone here is a Otaku and this title confuses. 2- Its Wikipedia here, not IMDB, so i dont see why to put "rumored" here, because actually there isnt any rumor, Square didnt said nothing about the voice actors, so no point in putting "rumored".

Dates Since the release dates keep changing (for NA), why don't you list ALL of the possible release dates instead of one, you're going to change it anyhow.-- --4.253.126.86 03:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)Insomniak
 * These are all excellent points. I've been bold and made the changes. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:33, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Different English Voice Actor please
Given that Lance Bass was given poor remarks for his portrayal of Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts, I feel that we need a new voice actor for Sephiroth. I'd say have Hayden Christensen as Sephiroth. Hayden pretty much did Darth Vader pretty well, and I think that his voice would compliment the English Sephiroth dub pretty well. &mdash; Vesther 04:27, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Even if Square Enix were taking requests, I don't think this would be the place to make them.--Undc23 08:28, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

How come that nobody's listed Steve Burton as Cloud's VA? If you read the Kingdom Hearts Articles, it says he will be portraying Cloud. Be alittle more informed please. --4.253.120.143 22:17, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Insomniak


 * The information in that article was unsourced and (probably) speculation. Until I see offical confirmation from Square-Enix, I am going to remove this. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 22:21, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Personally, i think the film won't be anywhere near as good with english voice actors, the japanese version sounded brilliant in japanese and i don't think it'd compliment the film for it to be in english sezzy_phlox


 * are the voice actors listed now correct? where did that information come from? i think its just spam, the poster spammed stuff like that before and on other articles.. Spencer 01:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * PLEASE stop adding US voice actor info gotten from IMDB, people. Square-Enix hasn't even ANNOUNCED the cast yet, let alone confirmed anything people keep insisting is right. The only voice pretty much confirmed is for Rufus, and that's because the VA confirmed it himself. IMDB is NOT a good source for info, anyone can provide information and despite what they say they rarely check it to make sure it's true unless pressed. It's like a slightly harder-to-add-to Urban Dictionary. So please, I'm begging you, quit adding possibly false info, too many people are taking it as gospel. Nezu Chiza 18:50, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Sony Pictures today confirmed its European release date for AC (24th April), confirming Mandy Moore, Jessica Alba and Steve Burton as providing voices for the film. Judesalmon 21:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you source that? ~ Hibana 21:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't find this on the Sony Pictures website. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 22:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I saw it on Eurogamer, but I have had the information confirmed by Square Enix Europe. Judesalmon 17:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * We need an official source though. Gaming magazines are notorious for getting info wrong, or just making things up. Heck, they pull from sources like IMDB and Wikipedia at times, so you KNOW they can be wrong. And saying that you confirmed it with Square Enix Europe doesn't make it so, forgive the skepticism. We need an official press release from Square Enix, or a list on their website, or something concrete. Otherwise it falls under the old "Well, I know someone who knows someone on the inside who says..." problem. Nezu Chiza 18:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Voice characters?
"It is widely speculated that the characters that appeared in Kingdom Hearts will be voiced by the actors who did them in that game; however, the actors who were chosen to play the characters in Kingdom Hearts were not chosen by Square Enix, but Disney, since their actors were used in the game, yet SE could use them as the voices for the characters." Past the third comma or so, this sentence makes little to no sense. Does anyone else understand it? —Frungi 23:28, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have changed this paragraph to

"It is widely speculated by fans that the characters that appeared in Kingdom Hearts will be voiced by the actors who voiced them in that game. However, these voice actors were chosen Disney not Square-Enix."
 * I hope this reads more clearly. I have also removed some pointless speculation. (Square-Enix may choose to use them anyway, then again they may not.) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 23:46, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

US release dates
Is it 28 March or 10 January 2006 at this time? Alex 00:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * One retailer my business orders from now has it listed as 3-28-2006. And since the 10th has come and gone without a DVD release, and no signs of one...well, who knows, maybe Amazon's filler date of 2010 is right :P Nezu Chiza 18:51, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Quite irritating, I might add. Square themselves had said Advent Children would have been released "before the end of January". They've even been advertising it in magazines for the last two or three months (although sans a release date). The S 03:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo
I was thinking about making an article for the Silver haired trios. What should the article be named though. Remnants of Sephiroth? or Shinentai (thought and physical bodied spirit) of Sephiroth? -- Psi edit 05:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Why bother with a new article? Personally, I'd either tack them into List of Final Fantasy VII characters (possibly as part of a new subsection, with reference to other AC characters, like Denzel), or into this article. Honestly, I have trouble seeing them as truly notable, given their role in a direct-to-video film that hasn't even been officially released in English-speaking countries yet. And, having seen Advent Children, I really have trouble visualizing how it's even possible to create more than one or two short paragraphs on the trio without delving into really blatant areas of fancruft.... – Seancdaug 05:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

It doesnt fit right. I want to add some images to them and Ill have some information about the wepaons they use. And an explanation about what their origin mught be. -- Psi edit 05:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The problem is that we're talking about characters whose sole appearance is in a 90 minute film. As a general rule of thumb, most characters who have appeared in one movie do not warrant their own article. If they did, Wikipedia would quickly drown in such entries. If we are saying more than one or two paragraphs about them, we're probably being too detailed. Information about their weapons is unlikely to be of anything more than cursory interest to non-fans, and I can't see that information taking up more than one or two sentences. Their origin might get one paragraph or so. If you really stretch things, you can probably pull three short paragraphs out of the subject before you started getting into irrelevant detail, and there's no justification for creating a separate article for such a short entry. And we've already got an image of the trio. If you want to replace it, go ahead, but we've already got so many images from the film that we're risking a copyvio. All these images are copyrighted, and Wikipedia guidelines state that "copyrighted work used should be as little as possible." – Seancdaug 06:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Sighhh....Alright Ill let the article project die for now. Ill add some stuff to Sephiroth's article. -- Psi edit 06:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Neutrality, People!
That bit of the article that says sales will be harmed by Bittorrent etc. What? There's no evidence this is true at all.

Also, the section about Square-Enix refusing to release English voice actors because of poor quality is rubbish.


 * The BitTorrent part may not belong there, but hey, let's face it, it's the truth. Eeno 23:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people bought it just to get proper subtitles or to hear the dub, because I've seen about four different versions, all with important lines being translated in entirely different ways. It'd be nice to see something uniform. And BitTorrent will ALWAYS harms sales. Megan 01:11, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Tseng
In regards to the phrase " Tseng (who mysteriously reappears, despite having been killed in Final Fantasy VII)" I erased the parathenses, as it is staed in the article Turks (Final Fantasy VII) It is stated that he was not killed in Final Fantasy VII, thus making this statement false 192.168.1.254

Images
I decided to be bold and remove many of the images, as they are copyrighted material and, as Seancdaug said,"Wikipedia guidelines state that "copyrighted work used should be as little as possible."". Zytch

Release date at Amazon?
The article here says Amazon.com, EB Games, and FYE (For Your Entertainment) have all stated the release date of the movie to be January 10th, 2006, yet I checked Amazon.com and it says ''Availability: This title will be released on January 1, 2010. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.'' for Final Fantasy VII - Advent Children (2005). What's going on? --Zeno McDohl 19:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * From what I have heard, Amazon used that date as they have no idea what the actual date will be. Zytch
 * It's just the generic Amazon place holder date - nothing to be concerned about. - Darkstar949 21:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

2010? Man, I've been waiting for this movie for years, and now we have to wait 4 more?! What the hell?! - Tapok.

Head/Neck ???
Ok, apparently theres a translation issue. Geg says its supposed to be Jenova's "neck," and Psi edit says it should be "head." ???? I don't speak Japanese so I couldn't tell you. does anyone else know? Spencer 21:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * More than likely it is the head of Jenova, which would make more sense than it being the neck, seeing as Sephiroth originally took the head. And, also, I'd imagine it to be odd to sever someone's neck from their body. Eeno 08:38, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

ジェノバの首 (jenoba no kubi) which literally means "neck" although is used to say "head." For example 首がすわる means to hold up your head.

 "According to Takeshi Nozue, Co-Director of the film (as stated in an interview in the Advent Children Prologue book), the contents of the box are referred to as "the head," but what the box actually contains is just the random remains of JENOVA's Cells. Of course, this might mean that some material from its head was within the box, but Nozue doesn't indicate it to necessarily be the case. They simply refer to the box's contents as "the head" for simplicity's sake. "

Official translation is "head." --18:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * that would have been my best guess. I mean, you can tell by the size of the box/container that it isnt large enough for a head, but I get the picture... I think I have to check The Turks THIS article and change it. Spencer 20:05, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Ajit
The article states that the name of the Forgotten Capital is "Ajit", supposedly translated from the Japanese "Ajito". However, "Ajito" is a Japanese loanword which means "HQ" or "Hideout". I am quite sure, that the Turks mean, that "Kadaj has taken the children to his hideout, the Forgotten Capital", and as such the Forgotten Capital does not have a name. 62.107.182.48 19:00, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This is true, yet someone seems hellbound on identifying the Forgotten Capital as "Ajit." Seriously, it means "hideout." Cloud asks where the children are being taken and Rude says "The Forgotten Capital. Their hideout." It's not the place's name. Please stop changing it back to this false title, whoever may be doing this.


 * Ryu Kaze 11:58 PM February 9, 2006

Summary
Maybe I'm being anal retentive, but the summary seems very non-encyclopedic at certain points, leaning towards over-praising (especially phrases such as "awesome battle"). It also lost a lot of grammar accuracy near the end. Any plans for a general overhaul of it, to clean it up and make it a little more objective? Megan 02:42, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree it needs cleaning. Some parts are sloppy.  I think I was the one who added the "an awesome battle" thing, but I see now that it sounds slangish.  I did't mean for it to sound like "wow totally awesome dude," but more like visually stunning and "awe inspiring." I mean come on, it was pretty bad ass (I know, POV, ^_^). But it should be cut down. Does it really need a step by step retelling of the entire movie? Spencer 02:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The beginning is pretty decent, I just think that some parts of it need to be redone for grammar's sake, and overall just needs to be tightened. The graphics are stunning and the movie in general is fantastic, so it deserves a fantastic article. And no, I don't think the movie needs to practically be transcribed. A general overview of each act, meaning the beginning when there is the exposition and we catch up with characters, the middle where Cloud gets his act together and defeats Bahamut and then the end with the fights with Kadaj and Sephiroth and a final explanation of the ending. Step by step is too clunky and not at all useful. Megan 06:17, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

FF7AC pirated big-time
this has to be one of the most frequently downloaded movies of all time, since it hasn't been released in the US, yet a great many people have seen it. --Nerd42 15:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It is too bad there isn't a way to find out exactly how many people have downloaded it, as that would certainly be a point of interest ni the article. Megan 19:03, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Just a thought: If it wasn't so widely available for download, would much of the article even exist? Spencer 20:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sure there are enough psycho fans of Final Fantasy in Japan that there would be an English article done eventually by someone with Japanese or English as their second language. Such is the nature of crazy fandoms. Megan 02:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it is almost like Square-Enix *wants* people to pirate this movie, considering how they haven't released it in the US ... but they know they have a huge huge fanbase there. --Nerd42 15:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I sincerely doubt that Square-Enix at all wants people to pirate this movie. Eventually they will release the movie in the United States and the more it is pirated the less people are going to want to buy it. If it is released in the US any time soon, I sincerely hope that it is very well done with good voice acting or I am less likely to buy it (especially since I prefer movies in their original, intended language). The decision to delay US and Europe release is a poor business move. Megan 23:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * So they're aren't devious, just stupid? --Nerd42 19:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It really isn't all that devious to suffer a massive loss of money via downloading. If someone in their planning department said this would be a good idea, they need to be promptly fired. If SquareEnix had released the movie in North American and Europe on time and had included some extras, there wouldn't be an issue of massive downloading, but they are STILL messing about. I am pretty sure that fans would have been perfectly happy with subtitles, but the insistance of being as slow as possible with released any news is frustrating, to say the least. There is no way they are going to recover from this massive mistake. Megan 17:07, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

That and a boat load of extras will be their only saving grace. But the chances of them doing that is very slim, even if they did include extras, they'd still have to keep the price down for sales to boost. It may be a forgon conclusion that it's a sinking ship. Eluchil 01:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know, all this talk is based on future speculation. I was just thinking the article might talk about the fan translations and the fact that the movie has been pirated, mostly among people who can't speak japanese, so that they can read the english subtitles. --Nerd42 19:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Wally Wingert...really?
It has been included in the article for a long time, but I'm having trouble finding the exact confirmation that Wally Wingert is to voice Rufus Shinra in the English version of AC. Even on his official site (which this article states is the source), it says nothing in his Recent News, Voice Overs, Film, or Resume that he's doing it. Will someone please post the exact location of this information? ~ Hibana 18:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Check again, Hibana. The "latest news" section of the site mentions it here. – Seancdaug 19:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. ~ Hibana 19:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

English VAs
I know that the official US website updated with three VAs: Steve Burton, Rachael Leigh Cook and Mena Suvari for their respective characters but later removed it. Should we consider removing the VAs from this article since SE has removed the names if remains removed for long or no? &mdash;Mirlen 19:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Since our reference is gone, it might be a good idea to remove them. Better yet, add a note to the effect that the names were announced then withdrawn. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 23:03, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

English VAs again
According to http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3147962

Thats where the new changes come from. &mdash;Jon 23:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

European release confirmed?
It seems that the title has been confirmed for a 24th April release on DVD and UMD in the EU.

Sadly, I cannot find any official verification (I initially found out via Teletext). The best I could offer would be dates from stores such as Amazon, so I have not added this yet. If someone could find some verification, that would be good. &mdash;Tranced Shadow 20:10, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
 * We should wait for some kind of offical confirmation. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 16:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Synchonised Released date!!!
The North American release date SHOULD, no, MUST, be the same date that Advent Children is OFFICIALLY released in Europe and Australia, to prevent piracy that could be caused by one region having it before other regions of the world!!! Someone from Squaresoft should give OFFICIAL confirmation of this in a press release today!!! If this gains approval, then reply to this ASAP, with your user name ONLY, DO NOT BOTHER SIGNING THE DATE!!! - This comment written by Danmeister, 7:07 AM Friday, Februrary 24, 2006
 * Sorry? What does this have to do with the article? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 20:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Err, Danmeister....that's what they already did in Japan. And it got pirated.