Talk:Final Fantasy VIII/Archive 3

chiefly traditional fantasy setting?
I would have thought Final Fantasy VI equally lacked such a setting, meaning this was at least the third; not the second, as this article's third paragraph claims. elvenscout742 00:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I recall this being brought up before but I wasn't involved and I can't seem to find the previous discussion either. Apparently, FFVI is fantasy "enough" to count. Axem Titanium 03:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

wouldn't you call the whole of time trying to be compressed fantasy! Jammi568 10:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure they mean fantasy as in a medieval-like setting with elves, unicorns, wizards and trolls. While elves, unicorns, wizards and trolls are all present in FF8 to some degree, its setting is more sci-fi than fantasy. Bhamv 14:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't even have a whole lot of elves, unicorns, and trolls, either. What it does have plenty of is guns, aircraft, warships, modern militaries (including tanks, artillery, mecha, snipers, etc) computers and, in general, a very modern/sci-fi environment. There are fantasy elements, but it has fantasy elements the same way that Warhammer 40,000 has fantasy elements. I don't think that anyone is going to argue whether Warhammer 40k is primarily fantasy or sci-fi. Peptuck 19:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Whether it is a Sci-Fi with Fantasy Elements, or a mixture of Sci-Fi and Fantasy, it still isn't a "chiefly traditional fantasy setting." In order to carry such a label, it would have very few, if any, Sci-Fi Elements.  This isn't the case.  The current wording also says "one of the first", so it doesn't matter if FFVI was or wasn't "chiefly traditional fantasy" because the wording is intentionally vague.  I think I recall that latter point being the solution to the past issue that Axem is referring to.  --&mdash; Δαίδαλος  Σ  21:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

A recent revert commented on FF8 being set in the future, thus "It is also one of the first games in the series not to use a chiefly traditional fantasy setting" as stated in the article. However, where does one draw the line as to what is traditionally a fantasy setting? FF7 also involved high technology such as robots and lasers, and FF6 was set in what appears to be a 19th century society with steam engines, trains, and opera, far away from what I would consider a traditional fantasy world set in a medieval society. I am suggesting the removal of the aforementioned statement as it only fuels controversy. Iorirox 14:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree. The line literally adds nothing at all to the article because it's too vague, and only leads to controversy. We have a Setting section below and an whole World of Final Fantasy VIII article to explain what the FFVIII world is, so how is that shoddy line useful? Kariteh 17:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too. If anything, that statement should apply to Final Fantasy VII, but it's too ambigious and conflicting to be placed in Wikipedia in the first place. So remove it I say. Leek90 09:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input. If noone else has any reasons for objection over the next few days, then I will remove the disputed text.Iorirox 02:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Star Wars pic?
There was a pic showing a scene from a star wars game in there for quite some time, so I took it out. If that was a mistake, please let me know here. - Kevin (TALK) 00:40, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That picture isnt from star wars, it is a cut-scene from FFVIII when Galbadia Garden invades Balamb. I will put it back. Plebmonk 00:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, those are gunblades and swords, not lightsabers. --PresN 05:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment
I have a few comments. According to various reliable sources, including MobyGames and the Japanese interwiki website for FFVIII, some of the credits in the infobox were off (before I corrected that problem and so I corrected it). Hironobu Sakaguchi was actually the executive producer and Hashimoto was the producer. So, Sakaguchi was actually not the producer. FFVIII is the first game to feature Latin lyrics for FFVIII's opening theme, Liberi Fatali. Any information is welcome. Thanks. Sjones23 13:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalisation
Gah! Someone horribly changed the stuff neer the begining of the article. I think thats all.. I would fix it, but I don't really have that much time... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.10.118.105 (talk • contribs).

Character Question
How many playable characters in FFVIII are there? --Sjones23 17:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Off the top of my head... main party of six, Squall, Rinoa, Selphie, Quistis, Irvine, Zell; past party of three, Laguna, Kiros, Ward; additional two player characters at certain points in the game, Seifer, Edea. That's a total of eleven.  Bhamv 04:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Battlesystem?
It hasn't mentioned anything about Final Fantasy VIII's battle system, besides in the Reception and Criticism paragraph. This was ATB, wasn't it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.106.164.86 (talk) 23:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VIII#Gameplay Peptuck 06:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Minor suggestion: Spoilers notice. I Have just started playing the game, so decided to look at this article for some background on it, and voila, part of the story i know already know, i would rather find these things out as i play the game, so it's more wise to include a notice of spoilers. Thanks - Tresmius
 * That's what the "Plot" section header is for. You don't want spoilers, don't look at the Plot section. Peptuck 18:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Shouldnt be using the us cover
its rubbish and anyway the game came out in japan first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.145.213 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 8 April 2007
 * えー、それは日本に何最初にそしてそう来たか. それはここに英国のWikipediaである.  それが説明か理由なしに「屑」であることあなたの要求はかなり下肢が不自由である.  Kariteh 10:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong. :) English Wikipedia, English territory cover.—ウルタプ 18:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Your points being? Subjective opinion and where it came out first do not make good arguments for keeping or removing an image. Peptuck 18:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for bringing up an old talk topic...thing, but if it's "English Wikipedia, English territory cover", then how do you decide between using the North American covers or the European covers? Arrowny 01:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good question, and it has never really been answered concretely. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/22 for an instance of people debating this. Kariteh 09:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * My original proposal was to use the logo instead of the box art. That would be less complicated than comparing NA and EU covers, since both logos are English logos. but then there was an issue of using JPN or ENG logo since the former has kana. With the articles incorporating kana, I don't see why JPN logo shouldn't be used. But that's only if the decision is to use the logo. &mdash; Bluerで す. 09:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well if the logo was used, then I don't see why the same wouldn't apply "English territory, English territory logo". It's only my opinion but I would say that the NA covers look better than the EU ones since the EU ones are usually just the logo on a while background. That's if you can justify using one cover over another using that reason. :p Arrowny 15:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Featured topic deadline
Per the new resolution at Featured topic criteria, the Final Fantasy VIII featured topic will be eligible for removal after 1 January 2008 if a third featured article for the topic is not promoted. See also Wikipedia talk:Featured topics/Final Fantasy VIII. Thanks.--Pharos 02:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See my comment on the Featured topics/Final Fantasy VIII. &mdash; Deckiller 02:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Modchip Lockout Notes and Japanese Wikipedia Superiority
My first question is this: While the Japanese version of Final Fantasy VIII shipped with an encoding which effectively blocked gamers worldwide from playing the game on a system which contained a modification chip allowing them to play games from different regions, the American version did not; as such, is this not an interesting-enough bit of information to be noted in the article? Honestly, if even for gaming trivia, it's an interesting fact to me; furthermore, for a large company like Squaresoft to make a clear decision to block-out potential pirates and then turn-around and reverse their position due to the subsequent public outcry on the matter is something which does not often happen in video games and thus makes Final Fantasy VIII's worldwide release somewhat unique.

Second question: I find myself often forced to use the Japanese-language version of Wikipedia to note some of the more intricate notes regarding animation and video games, but Final Fantasy VIII certainly pushes the limit of differences. A past editing session I performed on the English-language version of the subject article in order to transfer over a character list was later revoked for reasons I could not understand. Why, in this instance, the Japanese article contains information noteworthy to fans and curious researchers but the English article, apparently, does not need such information due to the existence of a less-than-stellar, vague character section, does not agree with me one bit. Were I to not know Japanese, I would surely be forced to turn elsewhere for information, and I don't think that's the point of Wikipedia's use to the general populace.

Thank you for your time. 67.174.212.167 11:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)我が零


 * Addressing your second point first, the character list was removed because we have a full article dedicated to them, Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. With the presence of that article, it becomes unnecessary (and undesirable) to bloat the main Final Fantasy 8 article with a character list.  Looking at the edit history, the character list does not add anything the characters article does not already have (apart from possibly the ages of the character, which I believe isn't all that encyclopedic since few of the ages are explicitly stated in the game or external sources).


 * Regarding the mod chip information, I believe it warrants inclusion, but there are two issues that need to be overcome before the information can be added: first, the language you used is quite POV, particularly the line "Much to the delight of passionate gamers" and the description of the mod-chip lockout programming as "infamous." Secondly, the source you cited states that there are rumors and reports of Japanese FF8 disks not working on modded US machines; it doesn't explicitly say that the American release was without the lockout programming, and as such doesn't really support the information you're using the citation on.  If the neutrality and sourcing details can be dealt with, I personally have no problem with the mod-chip information being in the article.


 * Finally, regarding Wikipedia's purpose, this is an encyclopedia, not a compendium of all knowledge and information. An encyclopedia article gives a general overview of a topic, and for more details it's not unusual to have to look elsewhere.  (One of the reasons why citing encyclopedias on research papers is so highly frowned upon, I guess)  Bhamv 11:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Mini card game
There is a famous card game in FFVIII, would be nice if you could mention it, with possibly an entire page dedicated to all details of it. Cheers
 * It's mentioned, search the page for the text "Triple Triad" which is the name of the card game. It also has a section in the Final Fantasy Minigames article: Minigames_of_Final_Fantasy. Bhamv 14:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ripping cut scenes
Does someone know how I can rip the videos from the CD? I don’t plan to play the game at all, I just want to see the jaw-dropping cut scenes.

I also heard a DVD resolution version exists. Any information on this?

Thank you David Latapie (✒ | @) — www 08:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but Wikipedia talk pages are not for discussing the subject itself, only improvement of the article (see the header at the top of the page). You can probably find them on YouTube but I make no promises about quality. Axem Titanium 13:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VIII technical demo
That article has been merged to this article on 29 May 2006 (to "Other appearances" section, which was a wrong place IMO, the section eventually gets fully deleted on 14 July 2006) If people think still there should be a mention of it in this article, then make some note, or put it in "See Also" section. But just don't do the same mistake leaving the important(IMO) data hidden for more than a year :p (I just reverted that article from being redirected to no more info which is here!) GLdK 12:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The information should be somewhere in this article. We don't need a separate article just for the tech demo - all we can say is that it's a tech demo created for the PlayStation 2. --Teggles 03:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Done and done. I've added a mention (with citation, too) in the Dev section and the tech demo article is now a redirect. Axem Titanium 21:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Nazi uniform
According to the EU official site that Blue just added to External links, a uniform that might look similar to the Nazi uniform was removed from the EU version of this game. Is this notable to include? Axem Titanium (talk) 00:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a piece for the development section. But I never played the EU version so I don't know if thats true, but if the developer said it. &mdash; Blue. 08:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally I think it's a bit trivial, particularly since it was ultimately removed. Bhamv (talk) 15:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice anything that immediately said "that's a Nazi uniform, what's that doing there?" in the Hong Kong edition of the PC version, but that's not to say it wasn't there. Unless it's been removed from that version too. It's probably more notable if a uniform associated with the Evil Empire doesn't have an echo of the Third Reich about it. The same section also mentioned the weapons were edited, which was probably Selphie's nunchucks because the BBFC has or had an infamous hang-up over nunchucks. 82.132.136.199 (talk) 20:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Chocobo World merge here
It doesn't seem to have nearly enough references to sustain itself or get back to GA status, and would make a quality paragraph within this article. Lets merge it, and have the added bonus of retaining the FFVIII Featured topic. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I know I talked on the other page about this, but isn't it better that Chocobo World be incorporated into Minigames_of_Final_Fantasy instead? - Noj r (talk) 22:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been actually...I don't know, why do you think it would be better? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it would be better because Chocobo World is technically not a real game, it is a glorified minigame and should be treated as such. Just as Triple Triad is located as a subtopic of minigames of Final Fantasy and not FFVIII itself, Chocobo World should be. To be frank, placing Chocobo World in FFVIII would be inconsistent with the current treatment of FF minigames. - Noj r (talk) 22:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, that makes sense. Why don't you merge it, and then tell the people at the Featured Topic candidacy? Great thinking! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, I'll alert the candidacy and make the changes in the next few days -- Noj r (talk) 20:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Edge review or whatever it is
Someone started translating the reception bit on the Norwegian wiki and I tried continuing it, but this sentence leaves me baffled:


 * Additionally, it found some of the story's plot twists "not ... suitably manipulated and prepared", leaving it "hard not to greet such... moments with anything but indifference".

What does that even mean? The plot twists weren't manipulated and prepared enough? How do you manipulate plot twists? Any clarification or, preferrably, the entire text would be most welcome. :) Davhorn (talk) 20:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
I tagged a few sources in the article as they are from fansites; they need to be replaced with reliable sources. Also, the Gamasutra ref is not formatted properly, and the quotes from the game are sometimes well formatted, sometimes not. Kariteh (talk) 17:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you find that source unreliable, then you might as well defeature this article and every single subarticle. I'm not getting involved in the subsequent can of worms; I'm pretty much done with fiction on Wikipedia. &mdash; Deckiller 03:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This was indeed suggested by Gary King and Pagrashtak at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive_123. Kariteh (talk) 08:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sources 37 and 38 are not necessarily unreliable. If you look at that web site, the guy has apparently copied interviews from Famitsu Magazine.  What we need to do is get a correct citation for those interviews from the original source, if at all possible. Nanten (talk) 18:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A bright spot
Looks like this article/topic has managed to maintain its integrity, though I see the excessive source police have gotten to it. Remember not to take the issue to extremes. &mdash; Deckiller 18:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Has any progress been made toward finding the sources of the flaregamer article, or are we still forced to go with that article? &mdash; Deckiller 19:03, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I e-mailed a person from the site's staff (Sheila Khosla) regarding the site's reliability and specifically where they retrieved the sources for their articles, but I haven't gotten a reply yet. As the policy/guideline for sources has become a lot stricter lately, I doubt FLAREgamer can be considered a reliable source. The Prince (talk) 22:16, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Images
This article has a lot of fair use images which seem to be unnecessary, and therefore fails WP:NFCC. I suggest removing the following images:


 * File:FFVIII worldmap.png - Doesn't increase the reader's understanding of the subject. Also, it's already included in the World of Final Fantasy VIII article, so it won't be deleted.
 * File:GunbladeopeningFFVIII.jpg - Doesn't increase the reader's understanding of the subject.
 * The two images in the Story section also don't increase the reader's understanding of the subject.
 * File:Ff8-edea.jpg in the Development section can probably be replaced with either File:Hironobu Sakaguchi 20070706 Japan Expo 2.jpg or File:Hironobu Sakaguchi 20070706 Japan Expo 1.jpg and a decent caption relevant to the text.

Any thoughts? The Prince (talk) 00:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I rescued the image of Edea for the Characters page because it is relevant to its Development section. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Major edits were just made to this page
We are going to have to sift through and see which ones are decent and which ones aren't; I notice several redundancies and awkward phrases. &mdash; Deckiller 17:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Should we mention the fact that the game has recently been re-released by Square-Enix on their website? 68.173.163.248 (talk) 05:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Alternate gameplay/challenges
Like many games of this age, there are a number of challenges i.e. Metroid's famous speed runs/sequence breaking, however in FF the challenges seem intentional, like the no-junction game. Is it worth mentioning these in the article as many of the people still playing this game are doing so by engaging in these challenges? --Identityshift (talk) 15:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that's trivia. Every FF game has something like that (for example, FFX has "no sphere grid", "tidus only", yada yada) and I see no need to list all of them. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 15:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that it's unnecessary trivia. Not only FF games, many (or even most) other games have some sort of artificial challenge mode, including speedruns, limitations in the characters or powers you can use, no-save games etc.  They're not significant or notable enough for inclusion. Bhamv (talk) 13:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * definite trivia as its not officially part of the game like Omega is   chocobogamer      mine   23:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)