Talk:Final Fantasy X-2/Archive 1

Voice Cast
Not even the IMDB lists the entire voice cast in the game's front page. I feel it only clutters the page and is of little interest. Better add more trivia and trim down here Renmiri 17:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri Anyhow, the cut section is here


 * John DeMita: Barkeep, Hypello, Barthello
 * Masasa: Leblanc
 * Sarge: Ormi
 * S. Scott Bullock: Logos
 * John DiMaggio: Wakka, Kimahri


 * Jack Fletcher: Garik
 * Dwight Schultz: O'aka XXIII, Maechen
 * Rob Paulsen: Lian Ronso, Tobli
 * Corey Burton: Trommel Guado
 * Candi Milo: Dona, Lucil, Pacce
 * Julia Fletcher: Elma
 * Matt K. Miller: Clasko
 * Adam Paul: Beclem
 * Scott Menville: Yaibal
 * Sherry Lynn: Shelinda
 * Tom Kenny: Rin, Wantz
 * Daisy Tormé: Nhadala
 * Quinton Flynn: Isaaru
 * Robbie Rist: Maroda
 * Olivia Hack: Hana
 * Kath Soucie: Taro
 * Philip Proctor: Bayra, Donga
 * Grey Delisle: Pukutak
 * Debi Derryberry: Fayth
 * Michael McShane: Cid
 * Alex Fernandez: Seymour Guado
 * Matt Mckenzie: Auron
 * Dee Bradley Baker: Ayde Ronso, Benzo, Braska
 * Gregg Berger: Jecht
 * Roger L. Jackson: Maester Wes Kinoc
 * Kouichi Sakaguchi: Cid
 * Nanaho Katsuragi: Donna
 * Jun Ishimaru: Barthello
 * Momomori Sumomo: Elma
 * Sayaka Ouhara: Lucil
 * Shunsuke Sakuya: Rin
 * Miki Nagasawa: Shelinda
 * Ryuuzou Ishino: Tromell Guado
 * Ugaki Hidenari: O'aka XXIII
 * Suyama Akio: Isaaru
 * Nakai Masataka: Maroda
 * Kumai Motoko: Pacce

Special dressspheres
I'm embarrased to ask this, but how do you active the special dressspheres? I own the game myself, and I can't find it anywhere. Please help. --Soetermans 17:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Have a girl change into all dressspheres on her garment grid in a single combat. If you acces the grid now, a new shoulder button option becomes available, which will allow the special dresssphere. G'luck. -- Bakabaka 13:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Side quests
"amazing amount of side-quests" "There are many spectacular pieces in the game, and quite a few spectacularly tacky pieces."

Not exactly NPOV, but I'm not familiar enough with this to competantly fix them. Anyone want to give this a shot? Yelyos 09:10, Mar 21, 2004 (UTC)

I changed "amazing amount" to "a number".

I also corrected a mistake -- this is not the first game since FF1 to feature a constant party. Final Fantasy III (the Japanese one, not 6) also featured a constant party.

I think it would be worth adding a section to this article about the fan reactions to this one, as it's easily the most controversial title in the series. FFVIII's article includes a NPOV section detailing this, and I think it would be worth going over that for this article as well.Rebochan 04:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I finally did it myself because there was a "Critic" section with some poorly worded, non-NPOV statement. I myself enjoyed the game, but there's no point in writing an encyclopedia article on it without including the more controversial aspects.Rebochan 23:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X-2 International
A recent edit summary implies that someone is about to start a new article to cover Final Fantasy X-2 International. Can I ask that we not do that just yet, guys? While there are certainly a number of changes in the Int'l version that deserve mention, there's no compelling reason that we cannot cover those changes in a new subheading of this article. Final Fantasy articles have historically suffered from a great deal of article sprawl, with lots of minor, and probably undeserving, topics getting their own articles. There's no reason we can't decide, a month or two down the line, that we have too much Int'l version information to contain in this article, and that we should split it into its own article then, but that should flow organically from the page, and not be imposed on high before we even have two sentences on the release. Just my thoughts. – Seancdaug 14:34, September 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * The reason I was going to do so was because there exists rather huge differences between the original Japanese/English release and the Int'l version. The most important change was the fact that the developers introduced "Creature Creation" as a (rather huge) part of the game. And since this is a rather huge change, I think it deserves its own new article. (Compare MGS2:SoL and MGS2:Substance). -- Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 15:52, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of differences, yes, but how much would you be able to write about them? Does it really deserve an individual article? Or could we just tell people about it here? Anyone who wants information about X-2 look at this article, and expect to find as much information as they can on that page. I don't mean to be discouraging however - if you believe it's deservant of an article and it's not just going to be a stub or list of comparisons, then it's a good idea. — Cua HL   17:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * What Cuahl said. I'd also like to add that any information about the Int'l version is likely going to rely on comparisions with the original version: the original version had feature X, but the Int'l version was different because Y, etc. As such, it would be a clear detriment to have all Int'l version information segregated into its own article, because it makes comparisions more difficult, and we'd like have to wind up duplicating information about how the original game did things. And having played the Int'l version, I do not for one minute believe that creature creation, as big of a change as it was, merits its own article. It is also worth nothing that we don't have seperate articles for other rereleases/special editions/etc. of other Final Fantasy games (the remake of the SNES games, FFVII Int'l, etc.), and that such fragmentation would almost certainly get labelled as fancruft and wind up before VfD should anyone pay any attention to it at all. For the time being, I'd feel much better about including information on the Int'l version here. As it is now, we have next to nothing about the Int'l version here, so it's very difficult to justify creating a whole new article on that basis. If it does truly wind up crowding out the rest of the page, there's no reason we can't split it off at some point in the future. Let's not put the horse before the cart. – Seancdaug 23:08, September 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Er, I ain't going to put the whole Creature Create and Monster Coliseum under FFX-2 main article because of the size of the content is. As well, the international version is technically called "Final Fantast X-2: International+Last Mission". "It adds new content detailing what happens after the events of FFX-2. Let's just say that it's a "separate" section (doesn't require the player to have played thru FFX-2, although various things changes depending on whether a clear file is loaded, and whether the clear file is of original JP release or the International clear file). The content is very huge. If you want, I will provide you with the information, and you can tell me whether it deserves a separate file. --Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 10:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Regardless of how "huge" the content is, I really don't see why it can't be contained within this article. If we're talking about more than two or three reasonably sized paragraphs, it probably needs to be rewritten anyway, as it's probably too detailed for a general interest encyclopedia. This isn't a Final Fantasy X-2 game guide, and what we're looking for is a basic summary for the uninitiated. Any article on the Int'l version is going to either be far too short to justify its own article, or far too detailed compared to this, or any other, CVG article. – Seancdaug 10:55, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I just think that, if that is the argument, then we should also scrap the MGS2:Substence and stuff like that then? I'm just not fully convinced that is the case along the same line. --Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 16:03, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * *shrugs* Maybe so. But I haven't played an MGS game since the first one, and I'm not qualified to decide what the folks who dedicate their time to those articles should do. In this case, however, I do feel that I am familiar enough with the game, and general community practice for Wikipedia, to urge caution. We're still talking purely hypothetical: since there's no information at all about the Int'l version yet, I certainly don't feel we need a new article for it. Again, add the content to this article, where it belongs (and is standard practice for the Final Fantasy articles, see both Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X, both of which have Int'l versions sans a seperate article to cover them). If, as you say, it winds up being too large for this article, then I'll concede you have a point. But it's still an issue of scale: we take four paragraphs to sum up the entire battle system of the game. Without seeing any tangible product, I find it extremely hard to believe that creature creation and the monster colliseum cannot be adequately summarized in, at absolute maximum, three or four paragraphs. If it takes so much more space to describe what are basically sideshows, then it's very likely not written tightly enough. – Seancdaug 16:48, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll take another shot at thinking about how to do it once I'm done with housekeeping stuff around here. Hate being a student, and hate siblings visiting. --Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 15:27, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Why is there still not a section about FFX-2 International? All we have are a few lines from the article to go on:
 * "This is the first Final Fantasy game to feature an all-female cast of player-characters, and the first since Final Fantasy III to keep the same party throughout the entire game. (Note that this is untrue for the international version of the game.)"
 * "Many changes occurred in the "international release" of the game, and it also changed the party setup."

Basically, the article says there are differences in the party between the original FFX-2 and FFX-2 International, but no actual information is given. This could be extremely frustrating for the curious reader. I'd make the changes myself, but I know nothing about FFX-2 International. Viltris 23:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoever wrote that "Final Fantasy X-2 International&Last Mission" was released in Europe is absolutely WRONG!! It was released only in Japan and nowhere else.


 * That is absolutely right. I am British and I know for a fact that International was only released in Japan. I think a seperate article on International would be good. In fact, why not seperate articles on all Final Fantasy Internationals? that is what happened for all MGS supplementary titles!


 * I primarily abandoned working on the new section for a while due to real life work... I still think it needs to be done, but I need to figure out how to work on it. -Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 12:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

NPC Bios
I'm considering changing some of them (after my most recent edit), but the problem is I could be giving too much spoilers. Does anyone have a good suggestion with what I should do? --Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 16:16, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I know Wikipedia has a template for spoilers, but we shouldn't be exclusionists because of spoilers. I hate the fact information is left out of articles because it'll spoil it for people. Sometimes people (myself included) come here to find out about a character. Especially FF7 - they don't get the whole Cloud/clone issue ;) — Cua HL   17:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * We're talking about this article, right? I think the NPC bios are a bit of a problem, in general (not just here, but throughout Final Fantasy-related articles). It was one of the things the Final Fantasy VI FAC got trounced on for, and I think there was a reasonable point behind it, and have argued so in the past. We do not need, nor should we, waste time listing every single character with a name who appears in the game. Nor should we create massive lists of them. My suggestion would be to pick out the characters who play a legitimately important role in the game (folks like Nooj, Shuyin, Lenne, etc.), and expand those entries slightly (I wouldn't go overboard, but a few sentences each should suffice). Then I'd eliminate the cruft (characters like Barkeep and Benzo). Ideally, we might even consider converting the article to prose: although that's likely to be a longer and more involved process, it would make it easier to handle relationships between characters, and to bring up fairly minor characters without dwelling too much on them (Ormi and Logos could be talked about in the overall context of the Leblanc Syndicate, for instance). Spoilers are not really a major concern, IMO, but fancruft is. – Seancdaug 11:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
 * List of Final Fantasy IV characters and List of Final Fantasy VII characters also give some information on nearly every named character in the games. ~ Hibana 16:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
 * True. This is also a problem that should be addressed, but in the appropriate location. – Seancdaug 18:24, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

"good ending"
"They also point to the fact that Square Enix had already announced sequels to the title after release, which they believe lends credibility to the theory that the plot point was intended to be resolved later." ?? This doesn't make sense, and if the writer meant "...before release" it's certainly false. Square didn't make any reference to plans for a sequel until 2002, and it wasn't officially announced until late that year.

In fact, even then, according to an interview in one of the Ultimania books there was a lot of disagreement within the development team over Tidus' role in the sequel --- early plans had him not appearing at all. This wasn't resolved until well into development. Nojima also mentions in the same interview that he doesn't consider any one of the endings to be the only "true" ending.

--Tennin 18:49, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Lesbianism ?!?!
This is definitely a POV and not one very often heard. I have been to several forums for a long time and never heard this one, not for the game. Skimpy clothes, yes I heard about it. Lesbianism ? Nope. Are you sure you didn't buy the hentai version ? That entire sentence should be taken out. Renmiri 20:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri
 * I'm inclined to agree. In future, though, you may want to cite (or, ideally, provide a diff, though sometimes that's not always practical) the passage you mean, so we all know what you're talking about immediately, and don't need to go searching through the article. :-) – Seancdaug 20:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Will do! Removing a repetitive paragraph in the same section, one that talks yet again about the skimpy clothes... Adding som "pros" to the criticism to make it more balanced. Renmiri 20:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri
 * Hrm... The major problem with "criticism" sections is that they tend to be a magnet for bias, both positive and negative. At this point, I'm leaning towards scrapping the whole section and starting from the ground up. As a rule, we should only be reporting reasonably common, or at least notable, criticisms, and we should be able to provide a valid citation for each and every critique we mention. "Balance" is all well and good, but if we're talking about critical reaction, we should be careful to reflect that general reaction: if it was overwhelmingly positive, we shouldn't dwell on the negative, and vice versa. – Seancdaug 00:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I think that three positive and three negative points, all CITED by creditable sources, is fairly balanced. We may even want to make a little review chart. Deckiller 00:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Too many images
I feel like there are too many images in the article now. Some of them are too small to increase in size without any pixelation. ~ Hibana 22:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Which ones ? You can pick others from the Final Fantasy media gallery or from the high definition images I have just loaded (list on my user page) Renmiri 22:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri

Someone seems to have added those in the past 3 days. Just be fair on what seems reasonable or not reasonable to keep. Also please do not simply remove the images instead initiate a Media for deletion to permanently delete the images from wikipedia. -- Psi edit 22:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That's why I'm discussing it. I thought maybe someone would explain why they should be kept. ~ Hibana 22:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think all the new images are pretty unnecessary. -- Psi edit 22:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I added the pictures at the request of the recommendation at the FFX Project page Renmiri 22:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri
 * PS: I don't disagree that removing some pictures would make it less cluttered but no one has taken it off the list of "Articles that could be improved with images" yet so I'm leaving it as is Renmiri 22:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri

--

I think the image of Tidus and Yuna at the end should be removed. It's too much of a spoiler, innit?

Or if you're planning on keeping it, can you replace it with something which looks a bit less...er...gross? Yuna seems to be sniffing Tidus's armpit in that one! :P

203.112.204.213 08:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh we don't mind spoilers here. It's an encyclopedia not a game site. But fine, I'll change the picture. Renmiri 18:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X-2 books merger
I'd like to put in a formal request that Final Fantasy X-2 books be merged into this article. As it is, there is maybe one sentence of non-duplicated information in the article, since the Shinra/Shin-Ra connection is already noted here. There doesn't seem to be any reason why we can't include the relevant information either here in the trivia section, or in a new section dedicated to either related books, or (probably better) tie-in merchandise in general. – Seancdaug 20:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. It's all about notability, in my opinion. Albums can have detailed track and recording information, but minor books on a minor fictional item can easily be put into the game article. Xenosaga did it. Deckiller 20:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. I'm not sure why someone would enter Final Fantasy X-2 books into a search on Wikipedia instead of on Google. >Gamemaker 02:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. A new section dedicated to tie in merchandise is a good idea. Renmiri 17:09, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri


 * Yeah its a stub should be merged. -- Psi edit 20:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

All right, a similar issue with Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue, which is even more clear-cut, IMO: the information has already been merged, in almost the same form, here. The only thing this article seems to add is an image gallery (which might even be a fair use violation), and a list of characters, which seems unnecessary to begin with, but could also be put into a single prose sentence and added to this article, if people really want to. – Seancdaug 20:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Disagree In terms of notability, the Prologue / Ethernal Calm clip is particularly important for game fans as it ties both FFX games and reveals the background for FFX-2. It is definitely much more notable than the name of the guy who made Lian Ronso's voice (See Voice Cast above). It is also one of the top searches for FF X at google, boasting almost 1 million hits for "another story" (Results 1 - 10 of about 9,770,000 for final fantasy another story) and 1 million for "Eternal Calm". Perhaps a subtitle just for it is all it needs but it is definitely more than "trivia" Renmiri 17:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri
 * Not really a fair use violation either, as the pages 4 images were well below the "de facto" standard of 15 images maximum. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of other Final Fantasy pages that violate the 15 images rule. Renmiri 21:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's not what I meant, and I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. It's not the number of images that's the problem, it's the way they're being utilized on the page. We can only use fair use images for illustrative purposes (see criteria #8), and there is a fairly common school of thought that argues that since image galleries do not generally provide any accompanying descriptive text, they're a violation of that requirement. In other words, that it's valid to show a picture of, for example, Shuyin next to a paragraph describing the character. It is not valid, on the other hand, to create a seperate section called "Characters of Final Fantasy X-2" where we simply provide an image gallery of every character of the game. See this AfD vote for some of the rationale behind this. And note that I chose my phrasing ("might be") carefully: there are people who find this interpretation of copyright policy a little reactionary, and it is most certainly not a cut-and-dried case. But it's something that we need to be aware of, especially since it makes it more likely that such an article is going to get slapped with a copyvio notice. – Seancdaug 21:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I understand your point now Renmiri 16:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, certainly (though, at the moment, I believe it's integrated with the story section, not the trivia section, where I agree it doesn't really belong). I don't see any problem with setting the information aside in its own section within this article, and doing so makes a certain degree of sense. I'm just not sure there's enough to say about it to populate an entire article. Having given it some thought, my suggestion is to create a section in this article, and to add a shorter note at Final Fantasy X with a direct anchor link to that section. I suggest something like this: "In 2003, a twelve minute video clip bridging the gap between Final Fantasy X and its sequel, Final Fantasy X-2, was released as part of Final Fantasy X: International + Last Mission. For more information on this sequence, please see Final Fantasy X-2 ." Or whatever (the exact wording doesn't really matter, per se). The various redirect links (Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue, Final Fantasy X: Another Story, etc.) should point the Final Fantasy X-2 article, and the expanded information therein. – Seancdaug 18:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe a section titled Final Fantasy X-2 Prologue on the FFX2 page, which incidentaly is the title of the video link would be the best place to put a small pargraph about it. It would make it easier to point the redirects to the proper section Renmiri 18:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri

How come there arent any links to those pages here. It seems kind of careless. -- Psi edit 20:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * They're all pretty recent creations. I tried to be bold and merge them before starting this discussion, but the creator of the pages objected and reverted them, so I opened things up here to gauge consensus. – Seancdaug 20:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The links were there, they and the pages were removed by Sean Renmiri 18:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri
 * I didn't object to the pages removal, I objected to the way it was done, which was not bold, it was just rude. Renmiri 17:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri


 * Agree --- there's really not that much there, it would probably serve more people overall to have it here. Agent0042 22:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

IPA symbols?
I must be blind, but could somebody point me to the IPA symbols in this article that warrant the little note at the beginning of the article? I only see Japanese characters and those are hardly IPA symbols. --84.184.114.159 10:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That thing clutters the page IMHO. We could just take it out Renmiri 16:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Endings
Shoudln't there be a section describing the story and all the different endings? 84.13.46.92 17:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps... We need to keep the page short though Renmiri 23:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured article tag
Why isn't this article tagged with that little star in the upper right-hand corner? κаллэмакс 13:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Because this isn't today's featured article. It's the original Final Fantasy X. Meaganhanes 20:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's tagged now :) &mdash; Deckill e r 04:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * See, patience pays off, doesn't it κаллэмакс? LOL ~ Hibana 04:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Conratulations for achieving Feature Article status, you are an inspiration, keep up the good work. --84.184.116.211 12:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Ryu Kaze 13:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Release dates
Someone needs to clarify this. 2/19 for the international version? Wouldn't the US/Canada be international as well, as, well, it was released in Japan first, and was translated from Japanese to English? But what does 2/19 refer to? On 2/20 it was released for Europe/Australia/New Zeland. Is there a reason why there is a one-day gap? Hbdragon88 09:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That refers to the international version, which was only released in Japan. The "INT" link explains it. Ryu Kaze 11:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)