Talk:Final Fantasy X/Archive 2

Voice Cast
Do we need to put the entire voice cast there ? Not even IMDB puts the entire cast in the game's front page. I think more trivia and less names of secondary characters is better. Alternatively, we could move the "voices" to the "list of characters. Renmiri 16:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri Anyhow, this is what I cut:


 * Andrew Philpot &mdash; Lord Braska
 * Michael McShane &mdash; Cid
 * Roger Jackson &mdash; Maester Wen Kinoc/Fayth (Ixion)
 * John DeMita &mdash; Luzzu/Barthello/Hypello/Graav
 * Adam Paul &mdash; Gatta
 * Candi Milo &mdash; Dona, Lucil, Pacce
 * Julia Fletcher &mdash; Elma/Yunalesca
 * Matt K. Miller &mdash; Clasko
 * Sherry Lynn &mdash; Shelinda/Fayth (Shiva)
 * Tom Kenny &mdash; Rin/Wantz/Bobba
 * Quinton Flynn &mdash; Isaaru/Bickson
 * Robbie Rist &mdash; Maroda/Fayth (Ifrit)
 * Dwight Schultz &mdash; Maechen/O'aka XXIII/Maester Mika
 * Corey Burton &mdash; Trommel Guado/Maester Kelk Ronso
 * Andre Sogliuzzo &mdash; Zuke
 * David Rasner &mdash; Brother
 * Debi Derryberry &mdash; Fayth (Bahamut)


 * Takayuki Yamaguchi &mdash; Brother, Clasko, Wantz
 * Takuma Suzuki &mdash; Braska, Maechen
 * Nanaho Katsuragi &mdash; Donna
 * Jun Ishimaru &mdash; Barthello, Father Zuke
 * Kayoko Fujii &mdash; Belgemine
 * Momomori Sumomo &mdash; Elma
 * Sayaka Ouhara &mdash; Lucil
 * Shunsuke Sakuya &mdash; Rin
 * Miki Nagasawa &mdash; Shelinda
 * Ryuuzou Ishino &mdash; Luzzu, Tromell Guado
 * Hiroshi Kamiya &mdash; Gatta
 * Satou Masaharu &mdash; Jyscal Guado
 * Ugaki Hidenari &mdash; Wes Kinoc, O'aka XXIII
 * Suyama Akio &mdash; Isaaru
 * Nakai Masataka &mdash; Maroda
 * Kumai Motoko &mdash; Pacce
 * Youko Koyanagi &mdash; Yunalesca

FFX Wiki Cleanup
After the merger with the Pyreflies article, I've been thinking "Do we really need all these FFX pages?" I know FFX goes into a lot more detail about the world than most Final Fantasy games, to say nothing of how much more detail it goes into than most games in general. That said, despite all that's been done to improve it, Wikipedia looks like a Final Fantasy fansite. Cloud's page looks like a biography, Advent Children's looks like the reports that came out of Venice when the film was first screened there, just yesterday I had to merge Ultima Weapon with Weapons, and here we've got eight pages talking about Final Fantasy X alone; that's not including character pages:


 * Final Fantasy X
 * Spira
 * Yevon
 * Blitzball
 * Al Bhed
 * Sphere Grid
 * Fayth
 * Final Fantasy X: Original Soundtrack

I'm not excluding the other Final Fantasies from this either. Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy IX are actually decently condensed, I believe, but Final Fantasy VII is another guilty offender. Until recently, the bloody Sister Ray even had its own article, Midgar should be merged with List of Final Fantasy VII Locations, and Materia should be merged with Mako.

I'm going to be making some proposals over on the Final Fantasy VII pages too, but here, I think the following ideas should be considered:


 * (N) Blitzball should be merged with Spira if in any way possible; maybe at the very end.
 * (Y) Al Bhed should be merged with Races of Final Fantasy (not a lot to say there to begin with, and plenty of overlap of material).
 * (Y) Sphere Grid should be merged with Final Fantasy X (applies to only this game, and there's already overlap of material).
 * Fayth should be merged with Yevon (there's really not much to say about the Fayth without talking about Yevon in the first place). /--/ Newly Proposed: Fayth should be merged with Yevon, Sin, and Pyreflies.
 * (N) Final Fantasy X Original Soundtrack should be merged with Final Fantasy X (how did it even get its own page to begin with?).

I'm for the Yevon page staying, and if there's a lot of objections to the Final Fantasy X Original Soundtrack page being merged out of individuality, so be it (can't see what there is to say about it that can't be said on the Final Fantasy X page, though); that would still take us from eight down to four.

I haven't even looked at the character pages that much, really, but I'm not going to worry about them for now. What's everyone's thoughts on this stuff? Ryu Kaze 08:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Merges
I strongly disagree with both merges. This article is already pretty big, it makes sense to keep these as seperate articles. Maybe less so for Sphere Grid, but both articles are pretty long and would bloat the main article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 12:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Obviously we wouldn't be keeping all the content of those articles, Ji. There's already material overlap as it is since there's sections for them here already. In the event of a merger, they hardly need to be expanded much, if at all. The idea's to get all these random pages condensed. Ryu Kaze 12:09, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Welll, maybe Sphere Grid. But the soundtrack is like any other album article on wikipedia. We don't merge album articles in to the artist's page or anything. It's not a random article and it should be kept. And please, JiFish not Ji. :) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 12:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Very well, then. I'll remove the idea of merging the soundtrack. Thanks for the feedback. If you have an opinion of the other pages, do mention it. And "JiFish" it is. Ryu Kaze 12:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I very strongly disagree that Blitzball should be merged with Spira. Pyreflies was one thing, and I can understand that, but Blitzball would totally be out of place, and would ruin the feel of the article. Think about it. You have page full of history and magic and spiritual matters and descriptions of beautiful locales and then... Hey! Sports! I never intended for Spira to be a catchall article for anything Final Fantasy X related. If Blitzball needs to be merged into anything, perhaps it could be merged into Final Fantasy X, although personally I think it's fine by itself.PiccoloNamek 13:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with all of your suggestions except blitzball and Final Fantasy X Original Soundtrack. The blitzball article needs to be rewritten, IMO, but I think it should probably be kept and redeveloped along the lines of the Triple Triad article (i.e., more about it as a minigame, and less about it as a fictional sport). As for the soundtrack article, I agree with JiFish: by the standards of WikiProject Albums, it's notable enough, and it's difficult to adhere to the formatting standards of that project if its merged. On the other hand, Sphere Grid strikes me as game guide material, and I feel that it should be transwiki'd, pared down to no more than two paragraphs maximum, and merged into Final Fantasy X. It's good material, it's just not encyclopedic, per se. – Seancdaug 18:09, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I definitely agree that the Fayth page needs to be merged to something. Also, I don't see the reason to have a Yevon page. I believe that a page about the "Magic of Final Fantsy X" or "the Mythology of Final Fantasy X" or a similar title emcompassing what's in the Fayth, the Yevon pages and some of what's in the Spira page (including pyreflies) would be more generic. And I honestly believe the Spira page needs to be renamed into Final Fantasy X Locations, with Final Fantasy X-2 Locations and Spira redirecting to it. The way it it is named right now causes all kinds of content to be dumped in there, because it is so generic it sounds like the ideal place to put all kinds of fancruft, including my own ... Renmiri 19:03, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But someone should move the content "lost" from the merges to wikibooks or wikicities. It is a pity to lose all that good stuff! Renmiri 19:06, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Spira does NOT need to be renamed. The reason the article has a name is because Final Fantasy X's world has a name. Otherwise it would be named "List of Final Fantasy X locations".PiccoloNamek 19:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, Renmiri; it's good stuff and anything "lost" would be saved on the Final Fantasy Wiki. I agree with PN on keeping Spira as "Spira," though.
 * PiccoloNamek: Terrible suggestion or not, it was, perhaps, worth it to get that humorous sarcastic reply out of you. XD
 * Sencdaug: I didn't realize that the soundtrack lay outside the range of the other stuff before, but based on what you and JiFish have said, that's now noted.
 * Renmiri: That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually. Sin -- which I'd forgotten until just now -- could probably be incorporated into something like that too. There's plenty of overlap in material between Sin, Fayth, and Yevon, and Pyreflies would fit nicely there (which would restore Spira to what we all knew and loved before).
 * I take it that everyone's in agreement on Sphere Grid biting the big one?
 * That Blitzball stays (with some revision)?
 * And that Yevon and Fayth become one? Any feelings on Sin merging with that? Or Pyreflies?
 * Thanks again for the responses, all. Ryu Kaze 19:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, I've updated the list to note that Blitzball will remain, that Sphere Grid and Al Bhed are toast, and that the Yevon page will merge with Fayth. If there's any objections, do let me know. Ryu Kaze 19:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, being that there's been no objections, I'll go ahead with merging Al Bhed with Races of Final Fantasy and Sphere Grid with Final Fantasy X. I'll wait until we've had more input on the combination of Sin, Fayth, Yevon, and Pyreflies, which I still think is a really good idea. Hats off to you there, Renmiri. If we go through with that, what should we call it? I think Renmiri's "Mythology of Final Fantasy X" was a decent suggestion. Ryu Kaze 06:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I can second that. Personally, I think it would be a joy to edit on such a page. Should we go ahead and create it? If it doesn't work out, we can always have it deleted.PiccoloNamek 07:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Heck, yeah, that would rock. Go ahead and make the page. If it's half as cool in reality as it sounds like it'll be in concept, I don't think we need fear having to delete it. Ryu Kaze 08:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I tried to create the page, but the database is being a bitch. You should keep checking. If it shows up, we should start a discussion on its talk page, so we can decide where we want it to go. There we go! You should head on over to the talk page. The first thing we should figure out is exactly how we should open the article.PiccoloNamek 08:59, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sweet. On my way. Oh, and consider this one done. All that's left to settle is the matter of merging those Mythology pages. Discussion here. Ryu Kaze 10:22, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * On my way as well! Renmiri 17:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Section reorganization
I've reorganized the article somewhat, most notably in removing several bulleted trivia points and placing them in a new section about variant versions of the game and its merchandise. I then moved the section on the Ultimania books (which already existed) down into a subcategory of that new section, and tried a left-right image alignment for the images. Finally, I moved the contents of the awards section into the introduction, since it was short enough that it seemed unnecessary to devote an entire section to it, and moved the voice cast list up above the trivia section, since it seemed to me that the information therein was probably more important (and, therefore, should be more visible) than trivia. I don't think I messed up anything important (like page layout), but if there is anything, feel free to fix it/revert it. – Seancdaug 16:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks Good. I changed the FFX2 page to match it.

Maybe this picture is too much
Underwater Basketball or Blitzball

But I couldn't resist adding it here The pic is so cool! Renmiri 05:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. I was just writing a message about this, actually. I was actually wondering if this might be better suited for the blitzball article. Do you have any more information about the calendar in question? I ask both out of personal interest and for information for the article. I'd say we can probably do something with the image, but we probably need to carefully couch our fair use rationale. (Also, sorry for commenting the image itself here, but we're not supposed to use copyrighted image in the "Talk:" namespace) – Seancdaug 05:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see you've already mentioned it over at blitzball. Sorry I didn't catch that earlier. – Seancdaug 05:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X DOES use pre-rendered backdrops!
Call me a geek, but FFX does still use some pre-rendered backdrops... it's just obvious because in come places the camera never moves, and the graphics of these area's look a lot more detailed... the first paragraph seemed to give the impression FFX was completely 3D with none of the "bad" aspects the PS1 FF games had... therefore I felt the paragraph needed changing :) (forgot to sign this a minute ago, sorry) Ronius 17:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm also sure it does.. Mainly for interiors, correct? I haven't played the game in awhile. M2K 21:21, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There are pre rendered graphics in the Calm Lands when you go to the north west area over the cliffs and so in the introduction there is an incorrect statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)
 * Disclaimer has been added to the article. ~ Flooch 03:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The majority of the game is pre-rendered to a degree - other than battles of course. You can never move the camera and it follows a set route as you walk. Not truely 3D. -- Mark (Talk 20:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Eh,a majority of the backgrounds use 3d polygons,so they are NOT pre-rendered.It hasn't anything to do with not moving the camera.
 * He is correct and the proof is in the pudding: Image:Ffxback.jpg Renmiri 20:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Peer Review Changes

 * Trimming a bit on the page here and there to decrease overall page size Renmiri 13:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Just so everyone is on the same page, peer review comments should, for the most part, go here. ~ Flooch 13:42, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I had trouble finding anything on it so I created this header here Renmiri 14:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Reason why Final Fantasy X-2 was made
From http://ps2.ign.com/articles/442/442025p1.html IGN: Why was Final Fantasy X the first Final Fantasy game to be given a true sequel? Kitase: We included a short story/movie titled "Eternal Calm" in FFX International, which was released in Japan in January 2002. "Eternal Calm" showed life in Spira, after the ending of the original story in FFX. Fan reaction was larger than we expected and we decided to continue the story of Yuna and surrounding characters in a sequel. At that time, our team was ready for a new challenge (for a new game, not a sequel) but we thought that creating a sequel to FFX would still be a challenge in a different way and so we made the decision to create a sequel. Motomu Toriyama: FFX was a "complete" product that it made it very difficult for us to just say good-bye to it. Also, the characters were so appealing that many fans wanted to see more of them. However, what really triggered us to move forward with a sequel was the inclusion of the "Eternal Calm" in FFX International (only released in Japan); a short story that depicted the world of Spira two years after the ending of the original story. While this does somewhat support the current statements in the article about fan reaction to FFX as the reason for FFX-2, some mention of the impact of the "Eternal Calm" movie should probably be included. HaganeNoKokoro 16:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Reception section actually already says that the game's intense popularity led to the sequel being made, and has a source for that claim. The thing about Eternal Calm is another way of saying the same thing, but I'm going to add it in as another reference since it's in English. Good find and thanks for showing us. Ryu Kaze 01:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Why the fuzzy cover art?
I noticed the main cover art is now a bit fuzzy and off-color (especialy the sky above the island). Looking back through the page's history, I saw that it was changed on 18:28, April 26, 2006. Why exactly was it changed? Can't we use a non-fuzzy image like this one, or just revert it back to the old image? Onlynameicanget 18:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * For why it was changed see Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy X. As for the fuzziness, this shouldn't matter too much; after all, it is a fair-use image. If it bothers you that much, maybe we can obtain another scan. (I would do this myself, but I like in the UK and thus have the PAL version.) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You might have noticed by now, but the old one was put back some time ago, I was the one who scanned it and I corrected the problem discussed at Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy X. Now there shouldn't be any problem.--DarkEvil 02:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

About the antagonists
Isn't the evil Sin supposed to be THE main antagonist (main villain) of this game? It said so on an article about Sin, but know that article is gone. Or is the main villain Yu Yevon? Answer please.
 * There's a few people you could call antagonists (Sin isn't one of them), but no one that could be really considered a villain. Even Seymour thought he was a good guy and had truly noble intentions. Ryu Kaze 13:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sin can be considered an antagonist, since its actions do disrupt and counter the protagonists (Yuna, etc.), but Sin is in no way a villain. &mdash; Deckill e r 14:44, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In the strictest literary sense, I don't think that Sin could be considered an antagonist. There's not exactly any kind of learning it imparts to the protagonists, which is the defining characteristic of an antagonist. An antagonist need not be opposed to the protagonists. For instance, Obi-Wan Kenobi is considered to be the antagonist of Star Wars: A New Hope while Luke Skywalker is the protagonist. In The Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader is considered the protagonist. Then, finally, in The Return of the Jedi, Luke becomes the antagonist while Darth Vader becomes the protagonist.
 * There's various antagonists and protagonists in this game, really, and some of the characters are both. Ryu Kaze 14:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * O___o I always thought the antagonist was anyone going against the motives of the main character(s) (protagonist(s)). Wow, I've been wrong all these years? &mdash; Deckill e r 16:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, just now noticing this. You've not exactly been wrong, no. Typically, that is how an antagonist is set up and that is the traditional representation. It's just that in the strictest literary sense, that's not what an atagonist necessarily is. Ryu Kaze 14:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Currently, antagonist does not reflect this... *wink* Majin Izlude 15:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

SIN
Why did Sin attack 'Dream Zanarkand' in the first place? How did Sin go there? How did fayth like Gecht and Tidus transported from 'Dream Zanarkand' to the real Spira?
 * Dream Zanarkand is out at sea. It's a real place just like Bevelle. Sin simply swam there. It attacked because that is its instinct and Jecht forced it to get close to the city. Ryu Kaze 13:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Story
Why is there no mention of the scene that takes place after the credits, of Tidus waking up under water, smiling, and swimming towards the surface? Duke Starhopper 05:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it's not an essential part of the plotline, and would not fit well into a summary of the plot (because this is what this article is, a summary). If it were added, I imagine that it would be removed to conserve the already-bloated page size (as discussed in the current featured article candidacy. ~ Flooch 07:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)