Talk:Final Fantasy XI/Archive 3

Housekeeping
Cleaned up the talk page and put in the first archive for the Final Fantasy XI talk. Please add more to the archive if any of these topics are no longer current. And vice versa if I've archived something that is still current. I've left the userbox here for other uses to take advantage of if they want. čĥàñľōŕď 23:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Battle System
Battle is not mentioned at all. Mrmoocow 08:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Free
I've seen roumers that FFXI will possibly become free of charge to play. I dont have any links to back this up at the moment though. Anyone else heard this sort of thing going round?
 * I highly doubt that. MMO's have massive maintenance costs, there's no way they would lower it, let alone make it free. Where did you hear this rumor? If it was on a message board it shouldn't be taken seriously. Achilles2.0

Userbox
For anyone who is interested:


 * Hahaha, that's terrific. :)  RaCha&#39;ar 19:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Awesome! --ShakataGaNai 00:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

PlayOnline's Shady Methods
There are a lot of complaints that PlayOnline is shady in how they handle payment. If you leave your PlayOnline ID inactive for 3 months, it gets deleted. If you want to play again, you have to purchase the game all over. Unfortunately, sometimes the Content IDs don't get deleted, and your credit card continues to get charged, but without a PlayOnline ID you can't log in to cancel the account. There have also been complaints about horrible Tech support and an unwillingness to help with the situation. I haven't experienced this firsthand, but I've also heard that you only pay for the rest of the month, and not a full 30-days. Also, PlayOnline is annoying and confusing in general. There are 5 or 6 different IDs and usernames to remember and long load times between everything. I'm not sure if I could write this with a NPOV, but I think it should be mentioned.
 * Find some NPOV sources to substantiate this and maybe we can work it in. I don't personally consider a lot of that stuff to be "shady," per se, but I do know people who have complained about it.  And I've never heard of people's credit cards continuing to be charged - again, find me a source that's not some blowhard on Allakhazam and we'll see.  -RaCha&#39;ar 15:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know, personally I find the Content ID deletion to be horribly money-grubbing, but of course thats not exactly an...impartial statement.

What do you mean if your delete your content id's, you get charged? So while you wait 3 months for it to delete you get charged? Also, you can't play the game without a PlayOnline ID. Tech Support was OK with me and the only complaint is the paying each month. You don't get a full 30 days. I don't understand what you mean by 5-6 different IDs and Usernames to remember. I know theres one for mail and normal but thats it. I don't get what your saying about you hafta buy the game again. Only way you'd have to do that is because you used 3rd party programs or you bought gil. Please make more sense out of your statement. Also the Content ID thing could be due to server space. How many people play for a month and quit? But yeah, they could make it maybe 6-8 months... -Hito


 * If there is something factually wrong in the article, by all means fix it :) Judgesurreal777 01:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there must be at least a mention of this information in the article, if you are inactive for 3 months then you have to buy a completely new game. This is different from normal MMOs because they usually keep your player information in case you decide to start playing again. I really don't see the logic in this and it can be a factor in deciding to buy the game in the first place. I personally am a kind of gamer that will play an mmo for a few months, shelf it and move on, then pull it out a few months later and play again. If those "few months" between playing are more than 3, then I would have to buy another install of the game. I have two FFXI boxes sitting on my desk, and I have been away for 3 months. I am not going to buy a third, fool me twice... Also, I called tech support on this and they say it is in the EULA, but I can't seem to find it. If someone could find the area it is listed perhaps we can note that down as well. - C`^
 * I didn't think you needed to buy an entirely new copy, only if you delete your POL id(which isn't necessary by any means.) If you delete a content ID, you have three months to buy a new one before your character is deleted.(And then, you can just buy a new ID) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Achilles2.0 (talk • contribs) 03:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

User base
Well, I see the article needs a major rework (is it really that important, that the servers where down for four hours somewhen?). I don't know how different sources are handled, but if you are interested in numbers straigt from SE instead of IGN, the business reports (annual and otherwise) are a wealth of information and show that FFXI has been fairly stable at 500.000 users about the last three years. --Anibas 15:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Changes for Peer Review
I just did a large amount of rework to the Gameplay section, trimming references to game mechanics, consolidating awkward phrasing, and generally trying to clean up some of the cruftiness. It still needs work, particularly in the Game Economy section. I'll be picking through the rest of the article over the course of the day and posting what I did here. -RaCha&#39;ar 15:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks a lot better now, yes. Nifboy 17:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The sentence about the server names sounds weird and sounds a bit wrong, now it just throws some information at the reader, that doesn't relate to anyhting else. Many of the servers have names like summons from previous games (the reason for that is very simple), but all names (except for the obiviously FF servers Caitsith and Chocobo) have one thing in common, they are all named after mythological entities. That's where the names of the summons from previous games from, too. So it is not "Most of these worlds are named after summoned creatures from earlier Final Fantasy games (Ifrit, Diabolos, Asura, etc.) while a few have names like Midgardsomr.", but rather "Almost allworlds are named after mythical creatures". Midgardsomr is not just some name that is maybe based upon FFVII, Midgardsomr is just another name for Jörmungandr. Others might not be summons, but they are still connected to mythology, for example Lakshmi or Remora. --Anibas 19:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It wasn't very good before, either, to be fair, and I wasn't going to leave it the way it is indefinitely. I think the real thread with all server names is that they make mythological references that have been made in prior FF games, falling more in line with the section earlier in the article about FF themes that appear in FFXI, more than that they refer to summons in other games.  Thoughts? -RaCha&#39;ar 20:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Nevermind that, I just rewrote the sentence entirely.  I think (hope) it reads better now. -RaCha&#39;ar 20:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really. Now it still reads as if Ifrit and Alexander are only FF summons and named for that, additionally it now reads as if the mythology Lakshmi is from hasn't been referenced in previous games, when it was featured quite often with Shiva. But I don't really know how to say it better. --Anibas (On a different note, since you are working on it, wouldn't it be better to create a new version with the major edits which are then copied in. This referencing piece by piece is difficult to follow and probably hell on creating a constitent writing style. It looks more like a barely thought out adding of as many references as possible, without any really coherent or order to them. Are there any rules on what we should have in the article, currently lots of information doesn't seem to be relevant or written in quite nicely. Take the Chocobo Raising, it isn't really relevant or needed for the article and should in my opinion only be used to give a short illustration for the constant growth and development in the game.)
 * Sorry, that I'm now so spotty but this is really difficult to follow. Why are the 2004 figures up, why are they relevant, why don't use the 2006 figures or add the ones from 2005, why don't use the financial reports as a reference? The link in the section above leads to them and they are in English. --Anibas 21:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC) And having so many IGN links doesn't look really nice either.
 * I can't respond to any of the reference criticisms, so if the "you" in "since you are working on it" is addressed to me (since it is indented by my name) check again, Judgesurreal is adding all of the links. I'm cleaning up the actual content for now and I imagine the references will be cleaned up once they're all actually in place.  As for whether we should copy things in from a "sandbox" location, my inclination is to say no simply because we don't want to lose the edit history by a copy-paste job, but if there is some WP policy that suggests to the contrary, please point me there. -RaCha&#39;ar 21:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No it wasn't targeted at you specifically. Well, I don't think there is such a policy, but I didn't suggest a sandboy, notepad would do just fine and nobody you wouldn't need to worry about edit history. Maybe it is just a cultural difference, and I'm from the German Wikipedia where we virtual live in constant fear of having articles about games deleted, drawing too much attention to an article is never good. I'm currently on a trial run with a Final Fantasy X, because currently we have de:Final Fantasy (Spiel) and I have hopes that a basically complete article will survive, and I have high hopes that you (you and the other people helping) will get it to FA status so I can attempt to get FFXI its own page, too (though the other FF FA articles would probably be first). It probably really is a cultural difference, the German Wikipedia encourages its editors to create the whole article first and to avoid rapid minimal edits (to retain concise and easily followable article histories). --Anibas 21:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC) (But the new server name sentence is really nice and better than its predecessors.)
 * Ah ha! Okay that does explain some things. I'm pretty sure on the English Wikipedia that it's more than okay to write a brand new article in notepad and then copy-paste it in, but they frown upon massive changes being done to existing articles in that manner.  This isn't the first I've heard of differences between the English and German Wikipedias - it's kind of crazy how the same concept is executed differently, huh?  I do understand the concern about confusing edit histories though, but I'm not sure much can be done about that.  Thanks about the new server sentence, it took some doing but I think I have it down XD -RaCha&#39;ar 22:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the article would read and flow better if the "Plot" section were moved before the "Gameplay" section; it's a little more introductory and not as heavy in terms of game controversy. Thoughts? -RaCha&#39;ar 22:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * My preference is a good gameplay section should preceed a good plot section, and in this case the plot section isn't good. My biggest concern is the relation between the player nations isn't very well defined; It's established they compete for control over regions, but it isn't established whether the nations hate each other or not, or whether there are any effects outside the regional control thing (admittingly, WoW colors my perspective). Admittingly, the gameplay section starts off horrendously vague; the first few paragraphs only establish that the game is plot-driven without ever going into what it is the player does (see my comment about a "lack of basic gameplay description" from PR). Nifboy 04:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Setting
Currently the setting section isn't very good, it starts with stating what Vana'diel consists off (making it sound, like that is all of Vana'diel, ToAU has shown us that we have seen only part of Vana'diel and the map of ToAU implies a rather large contient over there) the next to sentecens start of with it. After that the sections starts right into Servers, Worldpassas and Worldshift only to come back to what Vana'diel consists off. In my opinion the server and character creationg things don't have anything to do with plot or setting, they should be put elsewhere, not necessarily together. How about a tech section explaining the intricacy behind running FFXI, how many servers (short mention of Atmos test server), servers actually server banks, how to get onto the servers passing mention of efficiencies of having players from all over the world on the same servers leading to a consistent number of minimum people on the server and having the server load spread evenly out over the day. Maybe go a bit into the problems and curiosity of having people people from different cultures communicating with each oher (auto-translate). And I object to "Like previous games in the series, Final Fantasy XI is presented in third person perspective," you can play in first person mode if you wish. --Anibas 19:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

GA?!
Wow, nominating this for GA was EXTREMELY hasty. There's still a lot of work to be done. Who put it up already? There's more information but it's still a mess, and I know I would have appreciated some discussion here about whether it was ready before it was put up. I'm a little boggled. -RaCha&#39;ar 18:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA
In my opinion this article fails to be a Great Article for the following reasons: There is a disparity between the references, some sections reference almost every sentence, while others have almost no references.
 * Part of the introduction reads choppy and does not add useful general information about the game
 * The Gameplay section is not very coherent, jumps from topic to topic and contains outdated information (Character creation, minimal information about fighting, minimal information about quests and missions, subjobquest, what is a subjob - with information that hasn't been set up beforehand, i.e. 2hr - sudden talk about abilites and unexplained modifiers - Agi, Dex - G5 for the new jobs has been added, far too much attention on G1-5 and most especially Merit system as compare to the rest of the Gameplay section) Merits are starting at 75, one can mention them, but the explanation how they specifically work shouldn't be here.
 * Game Economy places far too much attention on exploits and RMT. Currently it is unclear where the money comes from, if so few money can be obtained from Beastmen, how can there be so vast amounts hinted at in the article. No sources.
 * PvP section too long, compared to importance in the game.
 * Outdated information in plot section (Vana'diel is larger than one landmass), unexplained (potentially useless) character information (Mind, Intelligence, unexplained game terms), There are many Mobs beside the Bestmen who server as antagonists, there are other important races besides the Zilart.
 * Plot: wrong focus, lengthly rant about Dynamis, no talk about the main storyline or other quests (normal and AF, etc)
 * Development doesn't even state when the development started or the game was announced or who was responsible.
 * Audio doesn't explain what is so special about the Star Onions (developer's band) as compared to the unnamed soundtracks.
 * Expansion: jumps from date to date and system to system, gives redundant information (and the price isn't really needed)
 * Release: contains information for other sections (anticpiated-reception), does not talk about topic
 * Updates: In general does not talk about updates (introduction of new quests, gamepay concepts, jobs - Smn was available before RoZ came out). Does not give the reason why the specific date and length of the update is relevant (despite being the first for a console, which can be mentioned, but not like that). The servers and auction house where shut down on various times for various reasons, why is that one auctions house shut down relevant or in the update section? Why is there another RMT secton, which has nothing to do with Updates
 * (Merchandise is a bit small, there is a lot more, including the game guide, soundtracks, Vana'diel Clock, display model, plushies)

Furthmore the article fails the fifth point of the GA criteria, it is by account of the nominator not stable. --Anibas 18:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Amen to all of the above. I was planning on putting a couple of good hours in tonight to making a more coherent article; this gives me some good focus for that. -RaCha&#39;ar 19:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for that very extensive and helpful review. I did not expect it to be reviewed so quickly! All of it will be taken into account before renomination :) Judgesurreal777 20:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Something's wrong...
There's a ton of text that isn't showing up in the article, but can be viewed in edit mode. Anyone know why? -RaCha&#39;ar 23:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * First suspect in such cases are the references, which I learned when I translated FFX. I fixed one, haven't looked for others. you have to make sure that a second reference to the same source follows this scheme, it was before and that stole your text. --Anibas 23:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC) (Ok, I took care of the others, but you have to go over the references again, some of them aren't named.)
 * THANK YOU. I was freaking out. I'll try to check the references but I don't really know how to do them. -RaCha&#39;ar 23:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, it had me frustrated, too. My suggestion would be to have your browser or text processor search (Ctrl+F for my browser) for <ref and check wether it looks like this <ref name="something or other", if it doesn't, just find something short and significant to the reference to put as the something or other, via that name you can later refer to the reference again by simply using the shortcut. --Anibas 23:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Massive Gameplay section rewrite
I tried to answer some of the criticisms and add some missing information, as well as removing others, to flesh this out a little. The sections still aren't in a good order I don't think, and maybe I shouldn't have subdivided it as much as I did, but I think I did okay. Further tweakage to follow... -RaCha&#39;ar 23:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Reorganized the order of sections. I'm more satisfied with it now. -RaCha&#39;ar 23:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Added a small section on the battle system - somehow I never noticed before that it wasn't there before. Add or trim as necessary. -RaCha&#39;ar 23:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Release section
Just FYI, the release section is about the build up to the release of the game, like any publicity or expectations before it was released. See any of the Star Wars FA's for an example. Judgesurreal777 00:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Overall Article
As I am a player of this game, I think this article is far from GA. Unfortunately, whenever I try to add more clear information to a section (like I did with merit points this morning), someone keeps removing it. I saw an earlier reference to the specific section I edited by someone named RaCha'ar, and I disagree with there being enough information in the merit points area. Telling people the features of the game doesn't make it ANYTHING like a "game guide." In fact, it just tells people what's in store for them at later levels. I really doubt they're aware of the mindless EXPing needing to be done within the game before you're awarded those merits, and how many you need after the first upgrade. People should be informed and know how many hours they'd have to put in a week before picking up a game like this ('cuz that's why people play games, to have fun... right?) These countless hours are needed before someone attains any sense of accomplishment or pride in their character. -Cozma
 * The thing is, these articles are not, nor should they be, aimed at people who already play the game, so telling people "what's in store for them at later levels" is not something we should aim for. That's something to be reserved for FFXIclopedia, for example.  Also, these articles should not be used as a review for people to decide whether to pick a game up or not.  We cannot put in too much information, and the huge paragraph about the new additions to the merit system is, simply, too much information.  It's not our job in an encyclopedia to report on how many hours people need to feel pride in their characters.  However, the mindless Xp grind IS something that could be added to a "Criticism" section, which is probably something we will add as this article changes. -RaCha&#39;ar 04:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * (one edit conflict later): You mean this edit, right? Speaking as a non-player, it's a completely unintelligible (read: player-oriented) delving into the specifics of the system. If you can rewrite it in the most general terms, it might be worth adding, but as it stands I'd rather see better writing in the gameplay section, not more writing. Nifboy 04:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Three things to point out here. Number one being, when someone decides they want to start playing a heavily involved MMORPG, don't they go to others/friends and ask things like: "Hey, what do you do once you get to the end? Is this a game you can say, 'Hey I beat the end guy!' to your friends?"  In my world, they do.  No one picks up a game they're going to be paying to play monthly without having some sort of conception of what the game is about or after some detective work about the end results of their effort.  Secondly, if the person finds the specifics unintelligible, perhaps they should try reading the large slice of article before the merit section.  And third, if they don't want to know this sort of in depth information, why are they STILL reading the article past the blurb summary at the topic that says "FFXI is an MMORPG."  Afterall, most people use this site as an advanced dictionary with pictures, and hope that the user who typed that article is correct with their information. -Cozma
 * But this is an encyclopedia. If people want a review of the game, there are dozens if not hundreds of review sites out there, some of which are linked in this article, and all of which are much better places for that kind of information to go than Wikipedia.  This article is meant to be an overview of the game; people will have to go elsewhere for the specifics.  Please read NOT to get a better idea of where we're coming from with this. -RaCha&#39;ar 14:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

PvP
I'm going to admit it: I never participated in Ballista or in Brenner. This section badly needs to be cut down, but I don't know the games well enough to sum them up. Saying that is like Capture the Flag is a perfect summary, but I don't know how to sum up Ballista similarly. Also, does Diorama-Abjaliwhatever need a mention? -RaCha&#39;ar 05:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you've hit on something important; the gameplay section is in need of many reliable sources so we know what is cruft and what isn't. We should make a big effort to hunt some down. Judgesurreal777 05:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "In Ballista the player has to find stones and throw them into goals which open after an opponent has been defeated."
 * I think you can summ each of them up in one sentence (mention the NPC support in Brenner), and give short info about PvP in general, Mention that there are official matches at preset times with specific rules (levelcap for example) that offer prizes, but there are also battle areas for hire where the player can set the rules and invite other players (that should cover both Dioramas). Make a mention of Ballista Royale. (I have done Ballista and Brenner a few short times, but it is not really my style, I prefer Besieged :))

Review again
You have been woking hard on it and yoour currently not changing, so I'll take another look at it and give my opinion (Please take care, I'm not a native English speaker).
 * It debuted in Japan on the Sony PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002 and was released for Microsoft Windows-based personal computers on November 5 of the same year. It was then localized and released for the North American market on October 28, 2003. The repetitive sentence start doesn't sound so good, try changing the second sentence around: On October 28, 2003 a localised version was released for the North American market.
 * The story is set in Vana'diel, and various tasks can be performed in that world, either to improve a characters powers or completing quests. I still don't like that sentence, it sounds weird and a bit wrong, but I don't know how to improve it.
 * It can be played from a first person perspective, should probably mention third person mode, too. It can be played either from a third or first person perspective, How about wiki-linking first and third person perspective and character?
 * You linked Lakshmi, and therefore should probably link Ifrit and Diabolos, too. (Link Diabolos to Devil, the Diabolos wiki entry is FFXI specific and sucks.)
 * I think the mention of the Signet NPCs is unnecessary, just mention that one has to obtain the special status from an NPC should be enough.
 * wiki-link Quest
 * which comprise the majority of the plots of the game. It's plot, not plots, is it?
 * I think you got the mission rank system wrong (and you don't explain rank), one doesn't do missions to further ones rank (players usually only do so, but it isn't intended as such). While you do the main story by doing missions you may rise in rank (for the nation stories) and gain access to new areas.
 * PvP happens only in "matches" that players enter only by their own consent; players cannot attack one another outside of these circumstances. only ... only *yuck* (and you'd better neutralize charmed players, but that doesn't need to be mentioned)
 * strike the new form Brenner, it's been more than half a year, hasn't it?
 * and shorten the Brenner explanation, maybe merge some things with Ballista, one can set rules for both, Brenner just offers a few more options
 * wiki-link level, be sure to get the correct one, the term has different meanings in computer games
 * Introduced in the Rise of the Zilart expansion pack were the Samurai, Ninja, and Dragoon job classes, which can also only be unlocked after a character reaches level 30. In the Treasures of Aht Urhgan expansion, three new jobs were made available in the game: Blue Mage, Corsair, and Puppetmaster. partially merge with each other and the previous sentence, the magically level 30 doesn't need to be mentioned again
 * Once the player has reached a certain level probably better to state the level, certain reads so vague, but take care, there already was a mention of subjobs, think about merging them
 * At the time of the release of Treasures of Aht Urhgan, no Genkai 5 quests existed for any of the three new jobs that were added. Breaking the tradition of a fight with a particular NPC in Jeuno, the Genkai 5 quests for these jobs involve battles with relevant NPCs in the Aht Urhgan areas.[8] irrelevant to article, delete.
 * and try to shorten merits even further, I still feel that they are given to much space and contain irrelevant information. Maybe only mention that on level 75 one can gain merit point instead of exp and use those merit point to upgrade the character (stats, abilities)
 * Battle system could need a mention of skill chains
 * Economy still sucks, is unsourced (consternation of players. I like high AH prices, means that NPC are cheaper, relativly speaking) and presents other unproofen theories. It talks far too much about inflation and why Gil sinks don't work, that's not something that should be in the article. Shorten it to sourced info and how the economy works (AH, Bazaar, shouts, crafting, farming), not economics theories
 * It consists of one large landmass two main landmasses and two smaller island flanking them, surrounded by small islands. still partially wrong information, currently these are known, but there might be a lot more
 * (released in Spring 2006)  delete, isn't of any interest at this point of the article
 * characters still contain information that makes only proper sense for people who have played the game (mind, endurance, intelligence, etc). You are still working on the characters section, aren#t you? Could need more information, on the enemies, too (traditional enemies, recurring recolored enemies).
 * Dynamis zones represent alternate versions of areas found in the main game world, can be entered by up to 64 people at once, and have their own set of rules for loot gathering and monster claiming. has nothing to do with the plot
 * a device what device?
 * merge Expansion and Updates to Development? At least as subheadings, they are part of continued development after all
 * At a concert tribute to Uematsu in San Francisco, California, several pieces from the game score were played including "Ronfaure."[21] Some of the music from Final Fantasy XI has been released on Itunes for download.[22] A CD of Final Fantasy XI music entitled The Star Onions (Final Fantasy XI - Music from the Other Side of Vana'diel) was released on August 24th, 2005 with ten tracks. doesn't actually have anything to do with in-game audio and should be under a reception or legacy heading
 * (Wow, commemorating the third birthday two months before the fourths, was it really for the third birthday?)
 * Japanese players are thought to prefer playing on their Playstation 2s, while English speakers prefer the PC version of the game. For one, you already have thought in the previous sentence. For the Japanese players we only think, for the English speakers we know? Try getting a source, I think I saw such nes at Alla once, and don't forget that FFXI never came out on PS2 in Europe.
 * Try to do something about the numbers, they still have about 500.000 subscribers, 200k-300k of those are online daily. Currently it seems as if the game is in decline
 * In response, 700 accounts were permanently banned and 300 billion Gil was removed from circulation. This effort is an attempt to stop Real-money trading (RMT) in the online game.[53] Square Enix has stated that RMT is officially a violation of the Terms of Service for Final Fantasy XI.[54] In July 2006, Square banned or suspended over 2,000 other accounts for similar manipulation and commerce. got nothing to do with updates
 * Just link PlayOnline instead of two slightly different links, US and EU are just seperate branches of it, like JP, which you don't list.


 * Thanks for all your help and direction, Anibas. I know a lot of stuff still needs fixing; this weekend will be devoted to it since I normally do a lot of Wiki at work, and they've just blocked any site that has anything to do with video games, preventing me from reading the content of any of the references to clean up some of that stuff.  XD  Expect to see a very different article by Sunday night. -RaCha&#39;ar 15:02, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Adding one response though: I said plots "plural" because after a point, the plotlines become divergent enough that IMHO they don't really adhere to the same storyline. The main nation quests involving the Shadow Lord seem to me to be fairly separate from the CoP and ToAU storylines.  Or is it only appropriate to refer to "plot" in the singular no matter how many divergent story threads there may be? -RaCha&#39;ar 15:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, adding more questions as I go. To link "first person" and "third person," where should I go?  First person redirects to grammatical person, which really doesn't seem like an appropriate reference for a video game. The only reference I can find for a video game is first-person shooter, which isn't entirely appropriate either.  That article links to perspective (cognitive), again totally unrelated.  Any ideas? -RaCha&#39;ar 15:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Few more things: I don't think the mission system is described inaccurately. There are many reasons to do missions and all of them are listed; I know plenty of people who at first didn't care at all about the storyline and only wanted their Rank 5 airship passes.  Come to think of it, I know a lot of people who could care less about the storyline and just want to get as awesome as possible and progress through things quickly :P  So to that end, I don't think that saying that people take on missions to advance in rank is incorrect.
 * As for taking out the specific level and replacing it with the nebuluous "certain," I thought we were trying to avoid specific references to in-game mechanics? If not I'll put it back in. -RaCha&#39;ar 15:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I had written a version of the characters section that removed the game-specific terms, and hadn't realized they had been added back in at some point. Fixed that up, so thanks for drawing my attention to it. -RaCha&#39;ar 05:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Newcomer here. The story is set in Vana'diel, and various tasks can be performed in that world, either to improve a characters powers or completing quests. First, I think that, though it should be obvious that Vana'diel is a world, and particularly, the "that world" to which you refer later in the sentence, it may be good to replace simply "Vana'diel" with "a world called Vana'diel" or "the world of Vana'diel." The original sentence is not logical, primarily because of the wording. Are you saying that "tasks can be performed" in order to "improve a character's powers" and in order to complete quests? If so, perhaps you should say that "The story is set in a world called Vana'diel, and various tasks can be performed in that world, either to improve a character's powers or to uncover parts of the storyline." Another way to reword this sentence would be to say, "The story is set in a world called Vana'diel, and various tasks can be performed in that world to improve a character's powers or to complete quests." Of course, it seems obvious that improving the character's powers and completing quests are not the only reasons for performing tasks in Final Fantasy XI.  Perhaps a better way to write this sentence would be to say that, "Players explore the world of Vana'diel, throughout which they complete various tasks to improve their character, uncover plot details, and obtain special items." You could even replace world with "the cities, outdoor areas, and dungeons."  Too much detail?  Just a suggestion. -Bricklayerramuh 09:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Try it out :) Judgesurreal777 12:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk page archive
I archived a bunch of stuff; it was long past due. Talk:Final Fantasy XI/archive2 -RaCha&#39;ar 17:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Vista
this game doesn't work on Windows Vista. It has a "known compatibility issue" according to the vista OS. I'd like to incorporate this into the article somewhere, where do you recommend I do this? McKay 21:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably under "Updates" Judgesurreal777 21:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That vista part seem negative, providing Vista isn't offically released yet. I think it should be reworded slightly. 64.130.135.25 15:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Admittedly, I wrote it while I was frustrated because I can't play, so I'm not suprised that it has a negative tone. The Release Candidate for Vista has been released, which means that unless they find any glaring errors with the release, this is what vista will be like. Also, if you think that it should be reworded, feel free to do so, be WP:BOLD. McKay 19:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism Section
WoW has a Criticism section, I say FFXI has one, for instance things about the outlawing of alt-tab and windowed mode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Donatj (talk • contribs).
 * Go for it then. If you'd like more fuel for the fire, let me know. Or I'll add it to your section when you're finished. McKay 13:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd like to add support for the criticism section, and add that it should include not just criticism of nuances within the game itself, but a description of how Square Enix has treated the game since its infancy, and thus the successes/flaws/shortcomings that have resulted. I would do this myself had I more time. 04:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Leveling system addition
Is this addition appropriate for the article? It seems like too much information, especially when people have been questioning whether including the genkai information is appropriate at all. -RaCha&#39;ar 07:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Fancruft tag
This section is for discussion of why the Gameplay section was just tagged as fancruft. Since I did so much work removing the cruft I really want to know where it remains so I can take it out. -RaCha&#39;ar 17:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a decent amount of of fancruft scattered throughout the section, but it isnt concentrated in one spot. For example, I removed "Signet also causes defeated enemies to "drop" elemental crystals, which can be sold or used to create new items from lesser ingredients.". This dosent tell readers about the section (conquest), and really knowing how to obtain crystals is not useful to non-players. Exarion 23:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

One player modes and free 2 play modes? (moved from article)
are there any? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckerthewise (talk • contribs)


 * I moved this for you. And no, there are not. It's MMO-only. -RaCha&#39;ar 12:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Windows Vista
I really do not think that huge paragraph detailing how to run it on Windows Vista is necessary for this article. I'm leaving this here for discussion for a few days but I will remove that paragraph without reasonable objection. -RaCha&#39;ar 12:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * At the moment, according to the official page, there has been problems located with running FFXI on Vista. Prefer to leave a notice saying that support for Vista is currently not available, with a link. -Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 12:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem with this, I just don't think the extremely detailed help desk post is necessary to the article. -RaCha&#39;ar 23:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto, I think it should at least be cut back a little, maybe to one or two sentences. Achilles2.0

New FFXI soundtrack announced
According to this link, there's a made-to-order only version of the OST being published. Add to article? -Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 12:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Price to play?
I just wanted to point out that I noticed that nowhere in the article it indicated the price to play the game. 199.216.126.50 20:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC) :Wow... I have no idea when this was removed from the article. I'll see if I can find a good place to re-insert it. -RaCha&#39;ar 17:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC) Actually, it's under Pricing under the Release heading. I knew it was in there somewhere. -RaCha&#39;ar 17:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits
Folks, when making additions to this article, please keep in mind that it's supposed to be encyclopedic and not a game guide. If you cannot cite your additions with anything other than "well everyone knows that!" then please do not add them to the article, or at the very least, bring them here for discussion first. This article is too long as it is and our focus should be on streamlining information, not adding more details. -RaCha&#39;ar 17:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Private Servers?
Any private servers out there like on WoW and Ragnarok Online?70.132.31.72 23:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Nope, it doesn't really work like that. Kyle 20:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, thats not entirely true. there exist projects to emulate ffxi servers. however, these projects are all in their infancy and should not be regarded as stable by any means. a notable example would be ProjectXI, however, progress is somewheres between slow, and non-existant. also, in its current condition it only runs on Windows. --Pandora Xero 04:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

GA nom
On quick change is needed: you have to 'setting' headers. Change one to zones or whatnot. I'll then look it over for spelling and pass it as GA. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 16:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

GA on Hold
I really do want to pass this article - and it is really close too - but a few things need to be done first.


 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:

In short, a few sections need references and there is one fact tag in the article. I may try to contribute to get some more references if I can. When this is complete, contact me on my talk page or feel free to pass the article yourself. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 02:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you - I'll see what I can do to fix it up. Much appreciated. -RaCha&#39;ar 12:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

GA Passed
I try not to be too picky but I think that the references just passed; if anyone would like to correct me on that, feel free.


 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:

I would like to congratulate anyone who has helped getting the article this far and good luck on making your way to FA! Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 22:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * WOOHOO!!! Thanks Greeves!!  ::happy dance:: -RaCha&#39;ar 23:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem! As I am fairly new to reviewing GAs (not good article review, review was just the best word I could think of) please tell me on my talk page how I can do better - this is only my third review! Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 23:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

FA push
Looks like this article is not too far away from a FA push. Looks like we have three major game projects going on right now: II, XI, and XII. However, this is pretty much the only FF I have never played, so I will not be able to help out as much with this one. &mdash; Deckiller 22:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XI: The Vana'diel Collection 2007 for Windows
I added information regarding Final Fantasy XI: The Vana'diel Collection 2007 for Windows, the latest release from last November which contains all expansions packs. The article only mentioned the 360 version.

--AZ&#39;sReincarnation 23:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)