Talk:Final Fantasy XIII/Archive 11

Spoilers
There's been some recent mention of "spoilers" in the edit comments. Just so everyone is aware, Wikipedia has a few policies which might apply to such content: -- Jwesley 78 20:24, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:SPOILERS
 * WP:NODISCLAIMERS
 * WP:PRESERVE


 * It has actually been discussed various times. I think the discussions are being archived very fast so readers don't find any of the discussions regarding spoilers in the talk page, thus they remove the game's plot info. In any case a template could be added to the top of this talk page with mentions of why wikipedia doesn't censor spoilers.Tintor2 (talk) 20:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea, did a quick revert and restore on those edits. The article is a byte down from before the edits, I think I missed a space somewhere in the copy-edit. I added the links in my comment so anyone checking the history can see it if not addressed in the current discussion. Fox816 (talk) 20:40, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Good idea!  Jwesley 78 20:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Plot
The last section of the plot segment is rather vague and could use more clarification as well as a clearer writing style. Scattergories (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Then be bold.Tintor2 (talk) 02:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Theocratic vs. Autocratic
Almost every source says that the Sanctum is a theocratic government, and while I know the word 'Sanctum' has religious connotations, it doesn't seem right that it is described as Theocratic. The citizens of Coccoon know nothing of the Maker, only the fal'cie do, and the Maker is the only God that is actually described in the game. Fal'cie are 'god like' beings, but not Gods, or demi-gods, or whatever you want to call them. So I propose we change every reference to 'theocratic' rule to 'autocratic' rule, unless someone will point out where I've misunderstood the governmental structure or something.HarukoBass (talk) 22:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * To be blunt, if the sources say it we can't change it. That would constitute original research which is removed if ever found. NOTE: If you can find a reliable source saying that in Final Fantasy XIII the Sanctum is an autocracy then we can include information in the article regarding this supposed conflict. Though, take note that citations must be verifiable. Fox816 (talk) 06:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that WP is not the place for "truth" (make conclusion from facts is also considered original research.) We just cite what reliable source says. However I'm wholeheartly agree with your point, I suggest you contribute your knowledge of the game in http://finalfantasy.wikia.com . -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 07:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually open wikis shouldn't be reliable source....Bread Ninja (talk) 16:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I mean if the factual information itself cannot be included in Wikipedia, Wikia will make a better home for such info. But of course you can't cite information from Wikia in Wikipedia. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, this means that common sense is not appropriate on Wikipedia. :: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.16.120 (talk) 04:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Best you read this too WP:CIVIL. Fox816 (talk) 06:54, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Good Article Push
Hi, everyone. At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix, we did some suggestions on doing a GA push. I felt that it is neccessary to take this GA push here, since this is the main article. Think we can do this in the following months? I will help out while I can. There are still some things we need to consider:


 * Plot section &mdash; Thanks to everyone for helping out. The story subsection needs to be expanded in line with the other Final Fantasy articles (please see Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy VI as proper examples). The setting subsection needs to have some history of the game's universe with sources added. The characters subsection should be split up and game quotes can be added as sources throughout the plot section. Also, half of the character section was written based off of the demo and pre-release movies as well as poorly-written character summary and plot summary combined and it needs to be rewritten to include the history of the characters and split the section to include more sources. I suggested a split of the character section at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix, but since no one has responded yet, I have decided to take this suggestion about splitting the character section here. I am currently working on it at User:Sjones23/Characters of Final Fantasy XIII.
 * Audio section &mdash; looks perfect, except that we just need to wait for the OST Plus soundtrack to come out and then, we can split the section. PresN is working on it in his sandbox at the moment.
 * Reception section &mdash; so far, it looks like it's perfect. At WikiProject Video games/Peer review/Final Fantasy XIII, per Tintor2's suggestions, various references from reviews need to be properly formatted (i.e. access date and authors).
 * Well, not perfect. I went through and fixed the refs in the reception section, but there's still a few things to do (maybe I'll get to them).
 * 1- Several refs are pointing at things like a Kotoku post, which itself references an SE press release. We should be citing the press release itself There's also a couple like this, but for Japanese magazine reviews.
 * 2- There's a lot of places where the prose says that "many reviewers said this,[1][2] but some said this as well.[3][4]" - these should read something like "Many reviewers, such as Matt Lastname of Gamespy and Tom Lastname of IGN said this, but John Lastname of OPM and Tim Lastname of such-and-such said this as well.[1][2][3][4]" I.e., say who is saying such things, refered to by name/organization the first time and by lastname thereafter, and put all cites at the end of the sentence.
 * 3- The first use of a cite should be the one that has all of the information- I.E. the first use of "refname=GSPY" should have the cite web stuff, rather than the third use of it. A bit trickier to fix; I'll work on it. I think there's some script somewhere that can sort it out automatically. -- Pres N  18:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This article has failed a GAC before, but I think it will make it through if we fix up the issues described here. Once we finish these issues described above, we will nominate it for GAC again. Any other suggestions are welcome here. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually you wont need refs for the plot section unless it's questionable. it does need expansion, don't worry about the character section, just fix it as much as you can, if you make a bold edit and it gets reverted than it can be discussed.Bread Ninja (talk) 04:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Plot
I am going to be working on the entire plot section by adding sources and expanding the plot summary in the Story subsection as well as splitting the characters section to a separate article, as stated above. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like some other users has expanded the Story section. Great work! Now, I will finish up the character article, which is currently near the final draft in my sandbox, and finally split the Characters section in the next few days (in doing so, I apologize for the long wait). Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The characters section has been finished (and it has been finally split to form a separate article), and also I have added some game script quotes into the story subsection. Any further quote additions should be very much appreciated. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Gameplay
I am going to also reformat the Gameplay section to remove excessive gamecruft per the peer review suggestions and to be consistent with other Final Fantasy articles. Currently, I am working on it in my sandbox. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

✅. I finally finished this section. I removed most of the gamecruft and styled it to be consistent with other Final Fantasy articles and used the instruction manual and game guide as additional sources. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Sales figures
http://psp.ign.com/articles/109/1090698p1.html

Some sales figures sources for y'all. Enjoy. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Story section
Excellent work on the Story section! But there are a few problems here that I think need to be dealt with: it might need some trimming, and it needs some references from the game's script as well as cutting down the redundancies by half and also fancruft needs to be removed and also needs to be checked for grammar. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

It won't need that many refs unless it has something questionable. I'll try to see what needs fixing on the story section. I think the character section deserves it's own article thoughBread Ninja (talk) 22:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay then. That will work. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Wasn't that something necessary in previous Final Fantasy GA and FA reviews?Tintor2 (talk) 00:00, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

it shouldn't have, i argued the same in one GA/FA article on the novels, and they said the same.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:15, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If that's so, then even the gameplay section would not require references which appears to go against the project guidelines. By the way, the new story section appears to be a copy of the one of the FF wikia and this should be heavily avoided.Tintor2 (talk) 00:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * gameplay is different for the SE wiki project due to controls changing, also it's to find which aspect of the gameplay is more notable. Bread Ninja (talk) 00:24, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, every GA or FA video game article has references to such things. Also, per Terms of Use, copying texts from the wikia can't be done.Tintor2 (talk) 00:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * but it's not necessary, well it shouldn't be. as for the wikia copying, i already know that's not allowed. what we can do is summarize it.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But it wasn't done. It's still copied material, as "All text that you did not write yourself, except brief excerpts, must be available under terms consistent with Wikipedia's Terms of Use before you submit it."Tintor2 (talk) 01:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * i'm already trying to edit it as much as i can. taking me quite a while.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Now then, just to clear things up, the user who copypasted this summary from FF Wikia was an IP who goes by 74.96.191.236 and it was reverted back to the version before the copypaste. So, I apologize for any confusion that was caused in this mix-up. I will do a complete rewrite of the plot summary to match the other FF articles as stated in the above section to meet GA/FA criteria. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No prob, I know it wasn't you or Breadninja.Tintor2 (talk) 16:37, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Split the music and character sections?
The FFXIII OST Plus has just been released. I suggest we split the music section per the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Square_Enix. Apparently, since PresN has been busy with other projects lately, I think it would be a good choice if we split the Music section. Also, as stated above, I am also considering as split on the character section as well per the previous discussions. Any comments or objections on these splits? Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Well music of ff13 really needs to be made. As for the list of characters, i suggest add jsut a couple or more refs just in case it wont meet GNG.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:49, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I see. First off, I will finish work on the Music of Final Fantasy XIII article in my sandbox. Then, we will see what we can do about the character section. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Support splitting the characters section as it is very long and the characters are notable enough for inclusion in a list. Tezero (talk) 15:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll split off the music section; I was out of the country this past week, but I should be able to write it all this week. -- Pres N  01:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, Sjones- I see that you're still working on that music split off- don't bother, my sandbox version is here and it's more filled out, no need to duplicate the work. -- Pres N  23:47, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, PresN. So then, I will continue with my character split off in my sandbox version, which is here. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, I got absorbed in it and then popped the article out of my sandbox. It can now be found (of course) at Music of Final Fantasy XIII. It still needs reception and a thorough copy-edit, but that's enough for tonight. I'll do all the links and such in a second, and throw it up for DYK. -- Pres N  01:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good work on the music article, PresN. Now, all that's left now is the Characters article. Once it's done, I will rewrite the character section similar to other FF articles (i.e. Final Fantasy XII). Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't forget to merge/redirect Lightning and Vanille's articles to the character article, I forgot we already had those. -- Pres N  01:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Got it. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

DO you have any opinionon the character section? it would really be helpfulBread Ninja (talk) 01:36, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd split it. It's kind of lengthy, while simultaneously feeling a bit brief. I think it would work better as an expanded article on its own. -- Pres N  05:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this is enough for consensus, does anyone object?Bread Ninja (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * So then, if there are no objections, I will finish up my characters article and move it out of the sandbox in the next couple of days. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How's it coming? Music is a GA now, so I'm done with the audio section. -- Pres N  05:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The characters article is coming along pretty well. It is starting to take a definitive shape at this time. I will finish up the article whenever I have the chance, so hopefully the characters article will be up soon enough. :) Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:20, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Spliting up the character section is a good idea. Although I strongly suggest that for this article, you keep a brief overview of the playable characters. Keep it very short, ie: Hope's mini-biography. If I am new to FFXIII, I want to know who the playable characters are at the very least.Vernash (talk) 10:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well the point isn't about getting spoiled or not, but it is best for the character section to be split and have less detail information in the main article.Bread Ninja (talk) 23:56, 25 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Please do not split. When I go to an FFx Wiki page, I want to see the plot, list of characters with short bio, etc., everything on that page.  I don't want to have to search for page after page.  Analogy: in a printed encyclopedia, if I want to find information for the population of Denmark, I do not use the "P" volume to look for the Population of Denmark.  I use the "D" volume to find Denmark, and then go to the Population subsection.  Likewise, if I want to find information about the characters of FFx, I go to the FFx page and look for the Characters subsection.Plan10 (talk) 08:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the idea is that there would still be a "characters" section; I agree that solely having it on another page would be difficult to follow. That said, we shouldn't have much more than a couple or so of paragraphs on them, just enough so that you can follow the plot- since presumably we have enough info on the characters to fill out a whole full-length article, having it all here would swamp the article. I imagine we/SJones are trying to make it like the Final Fantasy XII page. -- Pres N  21:35, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The legacy section and critical reception for the characters article in the sandbox have been added and expanded, you can see them here. I will finish up the script sourcing and reception info in the sandbox in the next couple of days, then we will finally split this section and make the character article a GA. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * It is looking very good. Nice work!Tintor2 (talk) 15:50, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

All right, the characters section has been split. The article can be found here. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

PSM3 Score

 * The PSM3 70% Score was the Japanese import version. They gave the English version 81%. Should it be changed to just the English score, or should it have both? 86.30.35.190 (talk) 16:05, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it should have both, since this is a Japanese game. The English PSM3 score should go in the English reception paragraph, while the Japanese score should go in the Japanese reception paragraph. Hope this helps. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:43, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Vanille's Australian accent
Are we sure Vanille has an Austrlian accent? It sounds to me like it is supposed to be an English accent.Hobson (talk) 01:27, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * She sounds Australian to me, and Georgia van Cuylenburg, her voice actress for the English version, is Australian. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:08, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, Fang's voice actor Rachel Robinson confirmed it in an interview with FF Union. ★ Ffgamera ★ - My page! · Talk to me!· Contribs 07:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Dev info
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177772

Some dev info for you guys, if it's not already included. Cheers, Axem Titanium (talk) 10:28, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

People editing little blurbs about characters in the article
Hi Wikipedia. I noticed when reading the Final Fantasy 13 article, I notice people keep putting stuff like ">:( vanille is not at all a bad character!" and all this nonsense which isn't supposed to be in the article. How do you report it?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.181.102 (talk) 21:09, 22 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have reported it at WP:RFPP for semi-protection because of the vandalism. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Character Information
Many of the characters have incorrect ages posted. According to the Ultimania guide Hope is 14, Vanille is 19, and Snow is 21. The article lists them as being 15, 16 and 31 respectively. Scans of the Ultimania guide can be viewed here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KittyEGG (talk • contribs) 18:00, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope I am requesting the edit correctly. Feedback would be appreciated. KittyEGG (talk) 18:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done The ages have been corrected. Thanks, Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Hecatoncheir
This was archived long ago, and I never got around to sorting it out. So I'm bringing it up again.

Hecatoncheir is NOT a newcomer to the series. Sure, he was a minor boss in Final Fantasy III, but he still has appeared previously. I'm not sure how to edit the page because he's not a "series staple" either. Alex.liu064 (talk) 19:04, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Crystarium
The Crystarium section could use more explanation. Because this page article is protected, I cannot edit it directly:

Crystarium
The Crystarium is a leveling system consisting of ten stages and resembles the Sphere Grid in Final Fantasy X. Like the Sphere Grid, all characters may obtain all roles; however, an ability is required before a new role can be used.

Advancements in the Crystarium are made by acquiring Crystarium Points which are awarded after defeating enemies. These points can be used to gain bonuses to health, strength, magic, abilities and accessory slots. Unlike other games in the Final Fantasy series, level advancements are artificially capped until certain points in the story are reached. The highest stage of Crystarium, for example, is only unlocked after defeating the final boss of the game.

Wayne Hartman (talk) 01:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Ultimania development information
The following sources should be translated and used to expand the current incomplete article:


 * Final Fantasy XIII Battle Ultimania
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 1 – Sound Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 2 – Program Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 3 – Map Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 4 – Battle Section


 * Final Fantasy XIII Scenario Ultimania
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 1 – Main Character Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 2 – Art Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 3 – Cutscene & Movie Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 4 – Scenario Section
 * FFXIII Development Staff Interview 5 – Producer & Director


 * Final Fantasy XIII Ultimania Omega
 * Voice Actor Interview Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4
 * Producer & Director Interview Returns

Anyone willing to help translate even one page is welcome! Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 17:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 202.156.14.98, 2 December 2010
In the article Final Fantasy XIII, under the sub-section "Playable characters", there is the sentence "Lightning wields a gunblade called the Blaze Edge..." Please change the sentence to "Lightning wields a gunblade called the Blaze Edge (a.k.a. Blazefire Saber in other versions of the game)..." because in other versions of the Final Fantasy XIII video game, Lightning's weapon is called the Blazefire Saber, and not the Blaze Edge.

202.156.14.98 (talk) 11:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 12:47, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Controversy
I shortened this section as Wikipedia is a serious encyclopedia and no console-fanboy-playground.It doesn't matter if the version for console x was promoted using footage from console y or what resolution the cutscenes are rendered at (unless you have nothing else to care about).Nuhr (talk) 01:44, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That's fine. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:24, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree: it's well-sourced and important information about the development of the game, especially as it's the first to go multiplatform. 62.56.86.116 (talk) 14:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That's true. I agree that its relevant, well sourced and well-discussed, regardless of its possible interpretation as fanboyism, or anything. Such statememts can be discussed, provided they are well sourced, which they are. I therefore think that the content does belong in the article, although anybody is free to disagree.-- The Taerkasten ( talk ) 18:25, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course. Some other users have removed the content from the page before it was semi-protected months earlier. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)