Talk:Finnesburg Fragment

Finnsburg Fragment Translation
One user had posted an edition and his own translation of the poem at Finnsburg Fragment Translation (which now redirects here), using the old notes by Klaeber. The problems should be obvious (WP:OR, WP:RS and all that), but for our administration, I'll archive it here anyway. Cavila (talk) 23:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Um, the translation doesn't seem actually very controversial, rather good work for an amateur in fact, and perhaps we could include it here until a better one becomes available, see []? Richard Keatinge (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think that the guideline is designed for this purpose. Translation is tricky business when you're dealing with a dead language like Old English and a highly stylised form like an alliterative poem. It actually involves a good deal of original research, even in as straightforward a poem as this one (note also that there may differences between critical editions). However, I think a feasible and legitimate alternative would be to compare this to two or three modern translations. We don't have to follow them literally, but would need to explain things where modern translators disagree or have doubts. That should sort things out. Or perhaps the poem is sufficiently short that a translation may be cited in full without coming too close to copyright infringement. Cavila (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

The Fight At Finnsburg or the Finnsburg Fragment

For information on the Finnsburg Fragment, including its provenance and relation to the poem  "Beowulf" please see: Finnsburg Fragment Transcript and Literal Translation

1 * * * [hor]nas     byrnað.

* * * (the)  gables      burn.’

Hléoþrode ðā     heaþogeong cyning:

Exclaimed the     young king:

‘Nē ðis ne dagāð ēastan,     né hér draca ne flēogeð, ‘ (It is) neither this nor dawnings from (the) East,     nor here (the)  dragon not (does) fly,

5 ac hēr forþ berað;      fugelas singað,

but hither forth (enemies) bear;     birds sing,

(5a )  ac her forð berað     [feorhgeniðlan but hither forth bear     deadly foes

fyrdsearu fuslic.]     Fugelas singað,

armor ready     Birds sing,

gylleð grǣghama,     gūðwudu hlynneð,

yells the grey coated one,     (the) battle-wood [spear] roars,

scyld scefte oncwyð. Nū scȳneð þes mōna

''(the) shield to (the) spear-shaft answers. Now shines the moon,''

waðol under wolcnum;     nū ārīsað wēadǣda

wandering under (the) skys;     Now arise (the) deeds of woe

ðe ðisne folces nīð     fremman willað.

who of this nation enmity     carry out wished.

10 Ac onwacnigeað  nū,     wīgend mīne,

But awake now,     warriors my,

habbað ēowre linda,     hicgeaþ on ellen,

hold your shield,     resolve (yourselves) in courage,

winnað on orde,     wesað on mōde!’

fight in front,     be in high spirit!’

Ðā ārās mænig goldhladen ðegn,     gyred hine his swurde; Then arose many adorned in gold retainer,     girded he his sword;

ðā tō dura ēodon    drihtlice cempan,

then to (the) door went    (the) noble  champions,

15 Sigeferð and  Eaha,     hyra sword getugon,

Sigferð and Eaha,     their swords drawn,

and æt ōþrum durum     Ordlāf and Gūþlāf

and at (the) other doors     (were) Ordlāf and Güþlaf

and Hengest sylf,     hwearf him on lāste.

and Hengest himself,     went himself in after.

Ðā gȳt Gārulf[e]     Gūðere stȳrde,

Further Gārulfe     Gūðere restrained,

ðæt hē swā freōlic feorh     forman sīþe

in order that he such noble life     at the first opportunity

20 tō ðǣre  healle durum      hyrsta ne bǣre, to there (the) doors of (the) hall     accouterments not should bear,

nū hyt nīþa heard    ānyman wolde;

now he of battle brave    to take away  should wish;

ac hē frægn ofer eal      undearninga

but he asked across all     openly

dēormōd hæleþ,    hwā  ðā duru hēolde.

(the) bold hero,     who the door would guard

‘Sigeferþ is mīn nama,’ cweþ hē;     ‘ic eom Secgena lēod, ‘Sigeferþ is my name,’ said he;     ‘I am of (the) Saxon people,

25 wreccea wīde cūð;     fæla ic wēana gebād,

adventurer far and wide well known;    many  I miseries (have) lived through

heordra hilda;     ðē is gȳt hēr witod

brave of battle;     you are yet here assured

swæþer ðū sylf tō mē     sēcean wylle.’

whichever of the two victory or death you yourself from me     to seek should desire.’

Ðā wæs on healle     wælslihta gehlyn,

Then was in (the) hall     of slaughters (the) din,

Sceolde celæas  bord     cēnum on handa,

''was obliged to ??? shield    brave in hand''

30 bānhelm berstan      -- buruhðelu  dynede –

helmet break    -- (the)  stronghold floor resounded --

oð æt ðǣre gūðe    Gārulf gecrang

until there in battle    Gārulf fell

ealra ǣrest    eorðbūendra,

of all first    the men

Gūðlāfes sunu,    ymbe hyne gōdra fæla,

Of Gūðlaf son,    around (were) him of good  many

hwearflatra hrǣw. Hræfen wandrode

''of stalwart ones (the) bodies. A raven circled''

35 sweart and  sealobrūn. Swurdlēoma stōd,

''dusky and dark brown. Sword-light shone''

sywlce eal Finn[e]s Buruh     fȳrenu wǣre.

As if all of Finnsburg     on fire was.

Ne gefrægn ic nǣfre wurþlicor     æt wera hilde

Neither (have) heard of I never most splendidly     at of men battle

sixtig sigebeorna    sēl gebǣran,

sixty victorious warriors    better fare,

nē nēfre swānas hwītne medo    sēl forgyldan,

nor never young men with shining mead     better repay

40 ðonne Hnæfe  guldan     his hægstealdas.

than Hnæfe yielded (to)     his young.

Hig fuhton fifdagas,    swā hyra nān ne fēol,

They fought for five days,     so of them none not fell,

drihtgesīða,     ac hig ðā duru hēoldon.

of (their) comrades,     and they the doors held.

Ðā gewāt him wund hæleð     on wæg gangan,

Then departed from them (a) wounded hero     away to go,

Sǣde þæt his byrne     ābrocen wǣre,

(and) said that his shirt of mail     shattered was,

45 heresceorp  unhrōr,     and ēac wæs his helm ðȳr[e]l. (his) armor made useless,     and also was his helmet pierced through

Ðā hine sōna frægn    folces hyrde

Then him at once asked    of nation  guardian

hū ðā wīgend hyra     wunda genǣson,

how then their warriors     wounded bore

oððe hwæþer ðǣra hyssa     * * * * *

or whether of the young men

Prose Translation Then many retainers, adorned in gold, arose and each put on his sword. Then the noble champions Sigeferð and Eaha went to the door, with their swords drawn. Ordlāf and Gūþlaf were at the other doors and Hegest himself went in after them. Then Gūðere restrained Gārulf so that he, such a noble life, should not, at the first opportunity, go to  the doors of the hall bearing weapons and armor. Gūðere wished to take Gārulf, who was brave of battle, away from the fight. However, the bold hero, Gārulf, openly asked everyone who would guard the door. “Sigeferð is my name,” he said, “I am of the Saxon people and am an adventurer who is well known far and  wide. I have lived through many miseries and am brave of battle. Yet, you here are assured either death or victory whichever of the two you,  yourself, desire to seek from me.”
 * * * the gables burn.” Then the young king  exclaimed, “No the light is not gables burning, nor is it a dawn from  East, nor is it a dragon flying here.  The light is that of the enemy  coming towards us [in ready armour ].  Birds sing, the grey-coated one  howls, the spear roars, and the shield answers to the spear.  Now the  moon shines, wandering under the sky.  Now arise the deeds of woe of he  who wished to carry out this enmity of the people .    But awake now my warriors, hold your shield, resolve yourself in  courage, fight in front, and be in high spirit.

Then the din of slaughters was heard in the hall. He was obliged to ??? in his brave hand and to break a helmet – the floor of the stronghold resounded – until the first of all the  men, Gārluf, son of Gūðlāf, fell there in battle. Around him were the bodies of many good stalwart men. A dusky and dark brown raven circled. Sword-light shone as if all of Finnsburg were on fire. Neither have I heard of sixty men better fare, most splendidly, at battle, nor have I ever heard  of young men better repaid with shining mead that that which Hnæfe gave  to his young men. They fought for five days and none of them fell and their comrades held the door. Then a wounded hero departed from them to go away. It is said that his shirt of mail was shattered, that his armor was made useless, and that  his helmet was pierced through. Then the guardian of the nation, Finn, asked of him at once how then their wounded warriors bore or whether of the young men * * *