Talk:Fir Bolg

Germanic Parallels
Fir Bolg (Celtic) = Wer Folk (German, recall Grimm's Laws P/B -> F) = Men Folk. That is, everyone agrees that Fir (Celtic) = Vir (Latin) = Wer (German) = Man (cf. werewolf, man-wolf). All I am offering is a suggestion for the second word, Bolg, which by Grimm's Laws becomes Folg/Folk = people, folk. Fir Bolg = Men Folk, an obvious name for the original folkish inhabitants.


 * Actually, Grimm's Law would turn *bolg to *polk. If "folk" underwent Grimm's law, the older form must have had *p-l-g. The American Heritage dictionary derives it from PIE *plh1gom, which could hardly yield anything like "bolg" in Celtic. Orcoteuthis 13:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who's used a public toilet in Ireland would oft see Fir written over one of the doors, it gaelic for Men. Beldarin (talk) 20:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Gents toilet wd be Fir and the Ladies: Mna quite confusing for those visitors to the county without a grasp of the Irish Gaelic. --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 14:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

New section
Added the "Contemporary Influences" section for the reference to the game, World of Warcraft. Glacierman 05:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC) Anyone who's used a public loo in Ireland, would likely see the word Fir writtn over one of the doors, it's gaelic for Men!

Succession Box
Would the succession box not be better at the bottom of the page, instead of half way? Other articles on 'Wiki' have the boxes at the bottom, keeps it more uniform. Culnacréann Horse Ireland  23:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Spam removed
Deleted a spam message from the discussion page. Orcoteuthis 14:41, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Abbr
Tuatha Dé Danann cannot be shortened to Tuatha Dé. It means the People/Tribe of Dan, so shortening it to Tuatha Dé, means people of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.163.71 (talk) 00:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You are wrong on every point you make. The phrase "Tuatha Dé" is used regularly in Irish texts, because Dé doesn't mean "of", it's the genitive of Día, god or goddess. It's used as a shorted form of Tuatha Dé Danann, and it's also used of the Israelites in early Irish Christian texts - the "Tribes of God". But since you claim that the Tuatha Dé were the Tribe of Dan, you clearly know nothing of either. --Nicknack009 (talk) 20:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fir Domnann are probably related to the British, Dumnonii


 * It looked wrong to me and I made it go to the longer version but I have little knowldege of the Goidelic vocabulary: would it have to have a capital 'D' all the time for Dé?

Possible connection to Fomoiri
It might be of interest that Fir Bolg did not come into conflict with the Fomoiri after landing in Ireland. http://www.maryjones.us/jce/LGEoverview.pdf (page 5 footnote B) also notes the Fir Bolg lived in forts associated with the Fomoiri when Tuatha Dé Danann arrived, as well as both being descended from persons with similar names: Umor. The Fir Bolg may have been considered a strain of Fomoiri at some point in time. --75.143.111.125 (talk) 17:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Belg / Bolg Means Lightning or Thunder
According to this article, the name Fir Bolg, the latter part Bolg means lightning and they worshiped a god of thunder from which they take their name http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/IRISH-AMERICAN/2007-01/1170309421 Here's another article about this http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/ginealach.htm

It seems that the name became corrupted after the Christian conquest to humiliate them and has nothing to do with bags as it is derived from the Belgii. Research this further if you wish but the name men of bags is ridiculous and can't be the meaning of the name. There are many sources out there putting forth this view and it should be investigated to make your article more factually complete even if you state this is simply an alternative view.

I won't alter your article here but I think it's worth investigating. Armorbeast (talk) 02:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * This "lightning" etymology was disproven long, long ago. Cagwinn (talk) 13:22, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolgios Bolgios and Belgios are the same name and is a reference to the god of light. Bolgios has been confirmed by many as deriving from this proven Gallic or Celtic name origin. In your own article, it states the meaning of the name is in dispute and that there might be a Celtic god called Bolg... that god has etymologically been proven to be Bolgios which is an alternative name for Belius god of lightning.

Articles right here on Wiki prove this point valid and I am only trying to post that where the article states there is dispute about the name, what is the source of that dispute.

The name Bolg can have multiple meanings and could have changed over time where the original name was different. We know there was a Celtic / Gallic leader named Bolgios establishing the name and that they were not bag carriers, they were warriors who invaded Greece in ancient times.

Where we have proof they were warriors, there is no proof substantiating the name belonged to slaves or an oppressed people who escaped subjugation to move west... that has only been hypothesized to explain the definition given to the name in reference to bag or stomach... it has not been proven, it is only hypothetical where Bolgios and the invasions of peoples who became the ancestors of the ancient Belgii or Belgae has been proven from historic records in Greece.

I didn't add this information out of respect to the original authors as I thought the purpose of Wiki was to share knowledge and to educate people rather than to back a hypothetical meaning over a proven factual meaning as the history of the Belgae is referenced by almost everyone as being the same as the Fir Bolg. Armorbeast (talk) 18:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)\


 * Yes, I am quite sure. Any Wikipedia articles claiming that *bolg- means "lightning" in Celtic must be based on very old, outdated sources and should be edited to reflect current scholarly thought on the etymology. Cagwinn (talk) 19:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't it at least be mentioned that scholars once thought the name mean "men of lightning"? Even though the claim is not true, the fact that it was made certainly is.192.249.47.177 (talk) 19:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Why? Is Wikipedia obliged to offer every crackpot idea on all subjects? Seems ridiculous to me. Cagwinn (talk) 14:54, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not, but when the false claim was widely believed among academics, it's worth noting for historical purposes.12.109.68.198 (talk) 15:35, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * it means bulgarian or torbesh :))) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.16.90.60 (talk) 11:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Fir Bolg
Hi everyone,

I would like to suggest a new interpretation of the name "Bolg"

2) Celtic connection with the name Volca meaning a Wolf. Which is a name of a Gaulic/ later Celtic/ tribe  from Asia minor and settled later on in Norhthern France.  Lady Wild states that Fir Bolgs were dark people, so they should be comming somwhere south. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcae

1) Or from the name of river Volga

source:

Pokorny has (p. 1145f.) :

velk-2, velg- `feucht, naß 1. velk-: Air. folc `Wasserflut', folcaim `bade, wasche', cymr. golchi, corn. golhy, bret. gwalc'hi `waschen'; ahd. welh (neben welc, s. u.) `feucht, milde, welk', (ir)welhe:n `weich, schwach werden', mnd. welen `welken', ags. wealg `geschmacklos, widerlich', engl. wallow, nisl. valgr `lau'; wohl auch norw. valen `gefühllo s oder erstorben vor Kälte'; let. valks `feucht', valka `fließendes Wässerchen, feuchter Ort'; illyr. FlN Volcos, ON [Ou)olkai=a e(lh]. 2. velg-: ahd. welc `feucht, milde, welk', mnd. walcheit `macies', welk `welk, dürre', mengl.welkin `welken'; mit anderer Vokalstellung ags. wlæc, wlacu `lauwarm', mnd. wlak ds. (mit anld. s- mhd. swelk `welk', swelken, ahd. swelchen `welken'); vermutlich ahd. wolchan n., wolcha f., as.wolkan n. `Wolke'; lit. vi\lgau, -yti, va/lgyti `anfeuchten', vi\lks^nas `feucht', ablaut. apr. welgen n. `Schnupfen', let. valgums `Feuchtigkeit', ve,l^gans und val^gs `feucht', auch lit. val~gis `Speise', va/lgau, -yti `essen' (vom Begriff der flüssigen, breiigen Nahrung aus, vgl. russ. volo/ga `flüssige Nahrung'); slav. *vùlgùkù `feucht' in russ.-ksl. vùlgùkù, da zu poln. wilgna,c/ `feucht werden', russ. vol/gnutì ds., ablaut. *vo:lga: in aksl. vlaga f. `Feuchtigkeit', russ. volo/ga `Flüssigkeit, Zukost', dazu volo/z^itì `anfeuchten, mit Butter kochen'; hierher der russ. FlN Wo/lga (= c^ech. FlN Vlha, poln. FlN Wilga) aus slav. *Vìlga. Lit.: WP. I 306, Trautmann 358, Vasmer 1, 216 f., 219.

More https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Volcae

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 14:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Years
There is no year or time period mentioned in this article?--109.78.109.220 (talk) 01:48, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Popular Culture section needs editing
User Seu Deva has recommended deletion of the Popular Culture section in this article. It's a valid suggestion, as the various references given seem to have been added on a very casual basis, without consideration of their notability. However, the Fir Bolg do seem to be one of those aspects of Irish mythology which has had significant influence on popular culture, so it might be best if somebody with good knowledge of the topic attempts to convert the section into a coherent paragraph (but if nobody makes the attempt by March 2016, then deletion may be the best option). David Trochos (talk) 23:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Same time as exodus?
I know squeezing a sensible timeline out of Lebor Gabala is like squeezing water from a stone, but there's a pretty big discrepency with this part: "they leave Greece at the same time as the Israelites escaped from Egypt." The Fir Bolg were descended from Nemed, who was supposedly 5 generations descended from Ersu, who supposedly assisted Moses with the Exodus. How could Nemed's descendents have participated in an event his great-great-great-great grandfather also participated in? Can someone confirm if the Lebor makes any clarification of this? 2600:8800:23A5:5D00:7C8D:4C38:150D:F114 (talk) 21:45, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * To answer my own question, apparently there is an alternate geneology in some versions where Baath is not the son of Magog, but descended from Nemed. This would put him 12 generations down from Magog and thus lines up a little better with Exodus. That still leaves some confusing coincidences, like 'Sru, son of Ersu' showing up on two branches, each followed by a Tait and Agnomain, but that's another mystery entirely.2600:8800:23A5:5D00:985E:F5EF:F3A9:3272 (talk) 17:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)