Talk:Fire Nation

Why no info on the Domestic Forces
They vary greatly from the soldiers who are currently occupying the Earth Kingdom. Why is there no section dedicated to them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.195.247 (talk) 23:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Fire Nation Captives
I think the info in the industry section (or wherever it was) about Earth Benders working on rigs needs to be expanded. Because at one point, it sounds like the Fire Nation recklessly goes after villages and carries off helpless captives as slaves, which is obviously wrong (as we've seen plenty of occupied villages, but no deserted ones). Can somebody do this? I don't have time right now. 24.255.152.91 05:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fire Nation Festival
Where did you get the information about "Fire Nation Festival?" - Ben

wasnt that in the jeongjeong episdoe? Dragon queen4ever (talk) 10:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fire Nation - Steampunk society?
Avatar seems to take place in a "medival-era" time, and the Fire Nation employs industrial, steam-based technology. They still weild archaic weapons like swords and spears, but also use modern weapons like their metal ships and especially their steam-powered tank. I think that makes them a steampunk society or at least influenced by it.
 * This is speculation as Avatar is based on its own world and the fact that we don't know exactly how their other engines run. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 01:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

modern influences?
although the traditional cultural influences seem to be chinese, wouldn't you say that the "modern" aspects of the fire-nation parallel imperial japan (ie, up to the end of WW2)? for example, the very "victorian" burnsides of many of the generals was a grooming style that i think many japanese military leaders tried to sport and emulate during the meiji and taisho periods.


 * Hello, fellow anonymous user! I think your analysis is excellent and worth including if you can be reasonably sure of your opinion. (I confess ignorance) The individual cultures of the Four Nation's pull from multiple sources. I also caught a dash of Indian (the word "Agni") and Korean (the names Jeong Jeong and I think, Chey)--172.139.14.42 04:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Influences on the Fire Navy
I've been looking around and I discovered that the most fire nation ships seemed to be based on the design (or have a strong resemblance) of Panokseons. They were Korean warships used in Joseon Dynasty during the late 16th century. Their weaponry looks like it came from Chinese Trebuchets (see Battle of Lake Poyang ), a type of catapult. They were originally used as siege weapons and the fire nation seems to use them for that purpose as well as (forgive the term) anti-aircraft fire. I'm checking to see if it is ok for me to add the information relating to the Panokseons to the Fire Navy section.

Finally, (speculation) the Fire Navy seems to have various classes of warships. While the design seems the same, the larger ones sport two or more Trebuchets. It might be possible that the Fire Navy has a classification system similar to the British during the sailing age (ships of the line, frigates, sloops of war, ect.) This I don't have any information to back this up, but I thought it was worth discussion. DoSho 23:08, 19 July 2006

Is it confirmed that the Fire Nation wave runners are steam powered? When operating they produce a sound like that of internal combustion engines. Plus steam engines don't lend themselves to the kind of compact design needed for such a craft. Especially given the power requirements of a craft that fast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.160.109.154 (talk) 23:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Cult of Personality?
I think that's a fairly bold statement on the basis of one puppet show seen in only one episode. Seems to me it's not an indoctrination technique in and of itself. Eban 23:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree, especially as we never see his face. I would need more that one reference to call it a cult of personality. The only one I can think of is Azula renaming Omashu to New Ozai, but that doesn't fit the idea in my opinion. H2P 07:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Germeny?
Ok, I know Germeny was involved in WW@ but when it came down to it, the allience ofGermeny and Japan was really just a non-agrresion pact as they really didn't have much to do with eachother during WW2. The fire nation has amost no similarties to Germeny, mostly in the Halocost and USSR rivelry. The Japanese commited mass genocide twords the Koreans and Chinese. The conquest of a larger nation is msot denitly that of China. I changed the article to reflect this, as it seems someone not well-versed in WW2 wrote the intial statements.
 * Just because your spelling annoys me. Germany, WW2, alliance, aggression, almost, similarities, Holocaust, rivalry, committed, towards, most, definately, initial. I apologize if English is your second language. If it is not, then you have absolutely no excuse for not checking your spelling.
 * As for the WW2 reference the Fire Nation has more in common with World War II Japan than they do Germany. Especially if the Earth Nation is a stand in for Korea and China. -- Basique 11:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There are some references to both Germany and Japan. The Airbenders represent the Jews and genecide, Japan and China are similar to the Fire and Earth countries in terms of size comparison and various culture and architecture influences. Also, Zhao once refered to Fire as "the superior element", like Hitler and believed German superiority. The Fire Nation was successful in genecide and will dominate the world if Aang doesn't do something, so in a way, they are worse than Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.113.196.208 (talk • contribs)
 * I'd say there are only similarities in broad strokes, though. Hitler was hardly the first (or last) person in world history to think his race/nation/culture/etc was superior to and should rule all others.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 23:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The similarities are closer to the actions of the Japanese armies during the Second Sino-Japanese War.(Ghostexorcist 02:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC))

World War II analogies
I'm curious as to whether or not the writers ever made any references to the Fire Nation's war being modeled on World War II, as there is a lot of "it may be possible" statements being made in that section of the article. Despite the potential analogies, if there isn't any references about this then I see the section as conjecture. Prototime 05:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * With no further discussion or citations added within a week, I've removed this section. Prototime 05:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Aww, some of that was really interesting, considering the fact that the Earth Kingdom does look like Asia. I agree though that speculation should be kept to a minimum on wiki  H2P 05:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

So Happy
I'm so happy someone finally got rid of the analogies. No offense, but there may be some analogies but do we need a section on it.

I'm not. If people really think it mucks up the article, a memeber should jsut make a seperate one.

There doesn't need to be a separate article on it because it is pointless.

I think the firenation was mmodeled on japan and earth china and airbender korea beacause they first conquered airbender then they tried to conquerer earth nation sort of like how the japenese attcked and conquered korea then china. Just my opinion.

The fire nation could be based on PRC because air represents tibet already conquereed and genocided.And the earth be taiwan about to get conquered already losing china. and aloso has many chinese customs

There IS no specific culture for each Nation. They're all modeled off a medley of different cultures. Some features may be more prominent than others, but the basic idea is that none of them are from Earth, therefore none of them are entirely (Or even mostly) based off of any actual place or people. It's a CARTOON! It's called FICTION! As in NOT REAL! As in not "Put real cultures in different settings and give them magic powers." Look, what I mean to say is that you can't relate these people to a single culture because of the way they act or dress, because in that same category there will always be at least one other culture that it relates to in that respect. Get the picture?
 * While your message is true, that we can't prove what cultures the nations and cities are based on, your way of saying it makes it false. When the show has been so researched that the martial arts are all based off actual moves and they have hired calligraphers to make sure the show looks authentic, it would be idiotic to think that there aren't some references to actual cultures buried in the way the nations and cities act in the show. H2P 05:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The Drill
Why was it deleted; all was taken directly from a review on Secret of the Fire Nation. Its all official. (11987 08:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Anything about a future episode will need to come from a cited and reliable source for purposes of verification. We can't just take your word for it.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 15:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, we can wait...but ill post the URL to the review...http://www.animationinsider.net/article.php?articleID=1126&document=1| (11987 15:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Humm...to be honest, I'm not sure if that meets the source requierments or not, I'd have to check into it more. It may well be enough.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

ok, whatever you decide; just trying to help! (11987 15:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC))

Unnecessary Links...
Do we really need "islands" and other common English words to be linked? It would help if someone took em out, and it would help more if someone stopped putting them in. Abby724 01:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Fire Nation Military Rankings
I've recently been watching Book 1 again, and I've noticed various minor discrepencies between the ranking system in use by the Fire Nation and real ranks (Which I assume are the inspiration for the Avatar rankings). Zhao, ultimately an Admiral, was previously a Captain and then promoted to Commander, whereas most real-life militaries have the rank of Captain above that of a Commander. Also, if the Captain/Commander ranks have simply been switched, a Commander should be of equal rank to a Colonel, since the Captain/Colonel ranks are relatively comparable in modern day militaries, but Zhao was clearly the subordinate when addressing Colonel Shinu in The Blue Spirit. These are only minor discrepencies, true, and even people of equal rank have one person as a superior officer (So it makes sense that Shinu outranks Zhao), but I think it shows that the Fire Nation military isn't exactly like any one real life military.

I'm wondering if there has ever been a comprehensive list of Fire Nation military rankings released, perhaps detailing the seperate military divisions, or something mentioned by the creators explaining the hierarchy. I'm not going to put my little comparison into the article, since it's really just my opinion, but I feel that it warrants some sort of comment or explanation in the article if we can find some sort of source. JBK405 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Fire Nation Pictures
unlike the other bending pages,the fire nation rarely has pictures of itself. When you get on the page, there are just a bunch of words. I would like to have pictures of the society on the page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicoler1 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
 * Yeah, that'd be nice. Problem is, the series hasn't shown much of the Fire Nation itself yet. Be patient, from what I hear, that will change once Season 3 rolls around. --Herald Alberich 21:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Kuzon
At the 07 San Diego Comic Con, the creators stated that the name Kuzon is "like John in the Fire Nation, a lot of folks are named Kuzon over there." I think that this should be added to the article somewhere, but I'm not really sure where. maybe under Culture? What do you guys think? Oh, and the video where this is stated is youtube.com/watch?v=cy_J2n78xWY. Bagpipeturtle 04:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree to that - I think the names are a vital factor to the nation. Most of the names heard in the Fire Nation contain the letter 'z' (e.g. Zuko, Ozai, Sozin, Azula, Kuzon), but according to Sokka's master the name 'Lee' is also very common, so maybe the whole 'z' thing is a royal family issue?
 * Tetris11 00:03, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Update
Shouldn't this page have a couple images from Fire Nation villages now that we have images to use? Showcasing the social economic differences perhaps? It's not like there are no images to be used. 201.53.128.173 23:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

= The Royal Family = I suggest making a firelord family tree as well for all other characters.--Master_Hio_Cin 16:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The fire lord
So far the image we got is the shadowed one, who looks litterly nothing like him anymore lol, so, i suggest we add a second picture of ozai, or only one, and because the current image of him makes him look nothing but a shadowed nothing, and thats not what he seems to look like, i suggest an ew pic.--Cody6 00:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

As for the phrase used in the article, 'Fire Lord Sozin' is written as 烈火君蘇進 (liè huǒ jūn sū jìn). Sozin or Sū Jìn translates as 'resurrection enters. I think his the "So" or "蘇" part in his chinese name is merely his surname. The word itself doesn't mean resurrection really. And the  "進" might also mean improvement. --Kellen6049 (talk) 09:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

= Yu Yan Archers =

''This statement resembles the skill of "piercing a willow leaf at one hundred paces", which is a common occurrence in Chinese literature.[19] It also resembles the skills of a famous archer who lived in ancient China. Records comment after being told by his archery teacher that his vision needed to be trained until something impossibly small looked large, "Ji Chang hung a flea from the window frame by a hair and facing south, watched it. In a couple of weeks it seemed larger, and after three years of practice, it seemed like a cartwheel ... Then he took a bow ... and shot [at the flea]. He hit the middle of the flea and the hair did not even break."[20]''


 * Is this information really necessary? It serves no purpose other than to illustrate a point that is unimportant to the article. 201.37.53.73 (talk) 17:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

= Sun Warriors =

"The Sun Warrior tribe ..... was nearly exterminated by the Fire Nation." This hasn't been mentioned in the show and considering how the Sun Warriors are more or less the Fire Nations forefathers it doesn't make any logical sense. Its like saying "The Roman Empire ..... was nearly exterminated by the Byzantine Empire." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.74.67 (talk) 02:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is there no information on the Sun Warriors? 189.4.248.173 (talk) 01:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Is anyone going to give this piece of info any attention at all? 189.4.243.36 (talk) 16:47, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

More on the Sun Warriors
I removed information stating that the Fire Nation originated from the Sun Warriors. The show only said that the Sun Warriors were the original firebenders and that the shape of their temples was the inspiration for the Fire Sage's temples. Fishhook (talk) 22:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

= Regarding "spoilers" =

True, the show's over now, so there are no more spoilers per se, but I don't feel comfortable with information concerning the last episode in introduction of the article. This article is supposed to describe the Fire Nation, not explain who wins in the end. I'll remove bits and pieces. Fishhook (talk) 22:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

somebody explain why we are using
out of date, old, and obsolete informaion, and using present tense on past tense items.--Jakezing (talk) 22:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Present tense is used because that is how it is presented in the series. It's part of the MOS for fiction. Only flashbacks are regarded in past tense here. *SIGN* 22:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No... the war is presented as OVER in the show, and ozai aint fire lord, therfor, the article is presenting false information based on older episodes that have had their ionformation superceded by the finalie--Jakezing (talk) 01:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, throughout the series, the war is presented as ongoing. At the end of the series the war ends, yes, this is true. But the show is presented in the present tense, and when dealing with fiction, articles present info in the same tense. *SIGN* 01:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "Past tense" should never be used when describing a work of fiction. See WP:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) for more details. Always use present tense. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)