Talk:Firestorm (Ronald Raymond)

Ronald vs Ronnie
I have recently reversed user Lesfer's changes to Firestorm (Ronald Raymond), Firestorm (comics), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), and List of Justice League members. I contend that "Ronnie" is an alias, and Ronald is the correct form. His belief is that "Ronnie" is the proper name of the character and he cites "Barry" Allen, "Hal" Jordan, "Johnny" Storm, and "Ben" Grimm" as his examples. Except those four examples are all unique circumstances where the alias was used exclusively since the point of that characters creation, unlike Firestorm where the most common usage of his name from point of creation is Ronald Raymond, followed by Ronnie, and Ron. --Xero (talk) 11:56, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, man, but no, it's not. Firehawk called him "Ronnie", JLA members called him "Ronnie". Prof. Stein was possibly the only one to call him "Ronald". The character is known as "Ronnie Raymond". I've already asked an admin to mediate/help over here. If you fell like doing the same, please go ahead. I believe it'd be extremely helpful in our search for a proper consensus. Cheers —Lesfer (t/c/@) 20:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you actually read the updated article page including the references I provided which invalidate your argument or did you just ignore it and revert the changes I made again? Let me answer that for you, you didn't. You went to part of the proof that I provided in the Publication history and you changed this sentence "In Firestorm, The Nuclear Man #1 (March 1978) Ronald Raymond is named for the very first time when Martin Stein calls him "Ronald", to this "In Firestorm, The Nuclear Man #1 (March 1978) Ronnie Raymond is named for the very first time when Martin Stein calls him "Ronald". Because you either did not read the article or had trouble understanding the changes I made because English is not your idioma primário. I see that you have requested outside mediation from user J Greb here so I will await that outcome. --Xero (talk) 21:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Looking over what's in contention:
 * here, and at
 * Firestorm (comics),
 * Firestorm (Jason Rusch), and
 * List of Justice League members
 * as well as a handful of "other examples"
 * Lesfer's Flash (Barry Allen),
 * Hal Jordan,
 * Human Torch, and
 * Thing (comics) plus
 * Wally West, Bart Allen,
 * Atom (Al Pratt),
 * Atom (Al Pratt),
 * List of Doom Patrol members,
 * List of Freedom Fighters members,
 * List of Justice Society members,
 * List of Teen Titans members,
 * List of Avengers members, and
 * List of Fantastic Four members
 * and the Project docs at WikiProject Comics/Style guidance, WikiProject Comics/Style guidance, and Naming conventions (comics). I do have some observations:
 * The project really doesn't have anything written down as far as a hard, fast position on character names with in articles. All we really have to go on is common sense and "consensus by use".
 * Common usage seems to favour the following:
 * The full name of the character, with default nickname, is normally used for the "Alter ego" field in the infoboxes. So we have things like "Bartholomew Henry 'Barry' Allen" and "Jonathan 'Johnny' Lowell Spencer Storm".
 * Aside from the lead, the name most commonly used in the comics is used within the text of the article. There is also a tendency to use the last name after the first mention of a character in a section.
 * The team lists are a bit hit and miss, with neither "full name" or "commonly used name" being prefer. The lists are internally consistent though, all of the entries in a list are either one way or the other.
 * The infobox docs for the "Notable aliases" field are to avoid putting nicknames there.
 * Naming conventions for articles tend towards the most likely name.
 * The up shot of all this is that "Ronnie" with "Ronald" may not be the right thing across the board. With in the stories the character was more likely to be called "Ronnie", that's the point to start st. The JL roster list is a "commonly used name" list, so "Ronald" is out of place there. In the same way, it's likely that this article needs to be moved. As for "aliases = Ronnie, Ron, Ron Ray"... 2 of the 3 shouldn't be there, and is there a cite for "Ron Ray"? - J Greb (talk) 00:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There are cites for all known names and aliases in the publication history section of this article. --Xero (talk) 10:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)