Talk:First minister

The title First Secretary was given to the less powerful home rule administration in Wales.


 * It was initially - see the Government of Wales Act, but the Welsh Cabinet became "ministers" at the time that the coalition cabinet was formed in October 2000, and the National Assembly website (among others) now uses "First Minister". I can't find any formal decision to change the title, and apparently the UK Parliament was a bit lukewarm about it, but it seems to have been accepted. According to some of the press releases on the Assembly website the cahnge was intended to distinguish the ministers, who are politicians, from civil servants, who often have the title "secretary" --rbrwr

I've just checked and yes the Welsh first minister was called the First Secretary or 'Prif Ysgrifennydd y Cynulliad' (Section 53.1. of the Government of Wales Act, 1998) but seem to have been de-facto changed (though without legislative enactment that I can find) to First Minister (though both terms at different times are used in press releases and in media coverage). I know in British cabinet status a Secretary of State is higher in status than a minister, but in terms of home rule governments, the opposite is the case; a first minister is, you could say a Grade II prime minister - with less powers than a full prime minister, but still with with a position as heading an executive - whereas the First Secretary was meant if a prime minister at all to be a Grade III prime minister, inferior in powers and status to the First Ministers and with committee-style cabinet inferior in status to the govts in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

In Ireland, civil service heads of government departments used to be called 'Secretary to the Department of {name}' but because internationally at conferences they were often treated as being an ordinary secretary (one was notoriously asked what his typing speed was!) the position was renamed 'Secretary-General'. Something similar may have happened in Wales. Copy of a message I left on Deb's page JTD 00:15 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)


 * (smiles) Remember the first episode of Yes Minister, where Sir Humphrey goes on at length about secretaries for this, that and the other, at which point the new minister asks, "And do you all type?" The reply is, "No, Mrs So-and-So types.  She's the secretary."


 * Seriously, though, I'm a bit lost now. I never meant to get into all the ins and outs of it, because I just don't have the expertise.  I just thought it needed a cross-reference from Prime Minister. Deb 11:51 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

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In contrast, there is no Deputy First Minister in Scotland.

This is incorrect. Jim Wallace is the Deputy First Minister of Scotland. See.

--hoshie