Talk:Fish and chips/Archive 1

Beside the seaside
I don't really agree with the line "Fish and chip shops occur commonly near the UK beach-side, where people commonly eat fish and chips."

I makes it sound like the locals of beach-side areas have some odd love for this dish, I'd assume it has more to do with tourists finding it an easy and portable food source, esecially before other forms of fast food became popular in Britian. -- John

I thought there is also at least 1 fish and chip shop in every town and district, not just by the sea and where we live it is mostly ate by locals.


 * Speaking of the seaside, I utterly love the initial picture featured on this page. It truly looks like the plate of fish 'n' chips has decided to take a holiday by the seashore! "Here's a vacation picture of me trying to find my roots and to get back to my place of origin." 83.233.168.145 19:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

America

 * The fried potatoes are called "chips" in British usage; while American English calls them "french fries", the combination is nonetheless called "fish and chips" even in the US

Sounds yummy! Thanks for the usage note, too. User:Ed Poor


 * Yes, but sometimes, in America, it's called a "New England Fish Fry" or "New England Fish basket." It's often presented in greasy spoon type restaurants in a plastic or real basket.  Also, the chips in the Northeast are almost exactly like the ones in the top picture.  I think people assume that the only American fries are Mcdonald's.  Those kind are called "shoestring fries.  There are many others, like steak fries, "potato wedges," crinkle cut, and curly fries.72.92.19.123 (talk) 04:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

American Fast Food Fish and Chips
American fish and chips are far from yummy. Like most American food, they've been reduced to tasteless pre-frozen fast food. An example is the nationwide chain known as "Long John Silver's" that serves food even worse than McDonald's. About once a year I forget how awful American fast food is and seek one out, in my lust for something that tastes like fish and chips. Their food tastes nothing like fish and chips: the chips are mushy, the batter is chewy, and the fish is dry. And they've never heard of mushy peas. I've also tried to find real fish and chips in Canada (Toronto) but have had no more success than in the USA.

I was at a British pub in Fullerton, California, and complained that the chips were not "home made", as advertised. After some discussion, they admitted they fried the chips themselves but then froze them! (They were mushy.)

Americans do good Mexican food, though.

-- Kjb 13:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. With one exception all my experiences of fish and chips in the US have been disappointing. In one establishment I had to send my plate back to the kitchen 3 times as the fish inside the batter was still frozen. The one exception in my experience is Stoney's on Rte 202 in Wilmington, DE. Excellent F&C, toad in the hole and a few other Brit specialities.--ukexpat 23:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The best fish and chips in America comes from seafood stores or supermarkets that sell fresh seafood. The local supermarket where I live has better fish and chips than any I've tasted in the UK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.24.76.201 (talk) 15:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Tartar or Tartare
Tartar or Tartare --Is this just an American/British English difference or is there some difference in the sauce itself. --rmhermen
 * never heard of tartare sauce in either English -- maybe it was confused with tartare as in the raw beef? JHK


 * Seems to be legitimate... Did a search on "tartare sauce" on Google and got about 4000 hits, most seem to be of british orientation... And based on fish and chips. Rgamble

then tartare it is! of course, in my house, we say chips and crisps and bikkies -- no matter what country we're in! JHK

I dpn't have tartar (or tartare) sauce with fish and chips, but if I'm having 'proper' fish at home (cod, salmon fillet, etc) wth potatoes and salad rather than chips, I'll have tartar sauce with it.Saccerzd 15:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think both are correct in BE, although tartar is rather more common. Tartare is more faithful to the French spelling which is the origin of the sauce, although that in turn is based on name of the Turkish/Mongolian tribe which in BE and AE would be the Tartars. -- Solipsist 15:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I recall that what I squeezed out of a plastic sachet over my scampi down the pub the other night was labelled "tartare" and a quick check over the suppliers of catering packs in the UK pulls up "tartare" for brands including shelf names such as Heinz and Colmans. I suspect the "e" spelling is more common in the UK. GraemeLeggett 16:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Vinegar
American restaurants when asked to provide vinegar for fries tend to bring cider vinegar instead of the usual white vinegar. Eclecticology

All the American places I know provide malt vingar (made from beer). --LDC

That too -Ec

cod, haddock, plaice and pollack
The article mentions that other white fish are common and gives an example of pollock. In the UK the next most common after cod is haddock (particularly in the north where it is the main dish) followed by plaice. I did not think pollock was used much at all in a british chippy. Maybe it is different in the US?


 * I don't think I've ever had pollock and chips. Cod, plaice and haddock are the usual fare in my local chippy (in Worcestershire). Loganberry 22:32, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * From my own experience: In Edinburgh, haddock is a default .. a menu of many shops even printed it "Haddock and Chips". In London (at least Fulham area), the default is cod -- they serve haddock too .. only you have to wait, it's not ready on the display (as cod is). Personally, I prefer haddock :) -- Bact 21:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Where I live near London the default is cod, with haddock, plaice and rock also being quite common. Many shops sell coley instead of cod or even AS cod. I would imagine lots of people eat coley without even knowing what it is. Feebtlas 23:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Question from Singapore : Long John Silvers Fish & Chips chain in Singapore is now claiming loudly that the "Original British Fish & Chips uses Fish with the Fish Skin on !!" I have been to UK and eaten the Fish & Chips there but I am doubtful that the British way means using fish without removing the skin??? Can someone help to confirm if Long John Silvers really know what is Original British Fish & Chips??? Fish with skin on or without??? The problem here in Singapore is, I find eating the fish with skin at Long John Silvers quite a smelly odour or taste. Thanks for any suggestions that anyone can offer. From: Yangkwan, Singapore, 27 July 2007.````

Down under
I'm curious about "The pronunciation of "fish and chips" is a traditional method of distinguishing Australians and New Zealanders." -- anyone from the area care to expand that part of the article & explain the diffences? -- Tarquin


 * from another website: An aussie says feesh & cheeps, a kiwi says fush & chups
 * It's true, Aussies and Kiwis also use the word six as a distinguisher. We both think that the other countries way of pronounciation makes it sound like sex. Hee hee, sex.

Moving on from rubbishing our little Tasman cousins, who really can't help it, another fish and chips phenomenon is that in NSW you order just "fish [probably some old piece of shark] and chips", while across the border in Victoria you order a specific type of fish from a selection of half a dozen and chips [and probably still get shark]. The far south NSW towns of Eden and Merimbula, which rely a lot on Vic holiday-makers do the multiple species, while the next town north, Bega, just does the normal fish and chips thing. Can anyone tell me what happens along the Murray border and Vic / SA? 60.242.50.195 (talk) 09:59, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Health perception
And I'd be very interested in seeing what sort of referencing could be made for the passage: "In the 1990's, the perception within the United States that fish and chips were unhealthy led to a decline in consumption and the bankruptcy of Long John Silver's and Arthur Treacher's." Who held this perception and did it pertain only to this precise combination of these foods? Was it related to the Mercury level scares surrounding food fish? It doesn't seem to make sense in respect to the fact that individually, chips (french fries) and fish consumption have certainly not suffered, nor has that of any other fried food, for that matter. David de Paoli

We're not all Americans
"colloquially known as "chippies" (a word that has a completely different meaning in American English)" -- yes, but WHAT? Do not assume a US audience please! -- Tarquin 15:45 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)


 * Quite! Almost all of the "the term 'chips'" section seems focused on explaining to its presumed US audience why the dish is called "fish and chips", not "fish and fries". Granted, some of it is relevant because it goes on to note that "fish and chips" is still "fish and chips" in the US, but much of the tangential discussion on (for example) the British/American names for crisps/chips respectively is purely self-indulgent. Tomalak Geret&#39;kal (talk) 15:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but some of the US info seems totally made up and/or ad libbed. Example: I live in the Pacific NW and this dish is almost always refered to by fish n chips by local chains like Skippers and Burgerville. However this is the only context in which french fries are refered to as chips.


 * Americans are a bit parochial, but we don't live on Mars! We know that fish n chips involves french fried potatoes, not ruffled Lays.  I was surprised when reading this article to find out that some restaurants supposedly do serve potato chips/crisps.  I've been from Philly to Boston and have never seen that.  What an odd meal.72.92.19.123 (talk) 05:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

pictures of Oxford
I don't think these exterior shots of chippies in Oxford add much to the article. You should have taken the pictures inside! Jooler 15:30, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. And what is upscale? I might take these pics off if nobody objects. Naturenet 16:19, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * See the exclaimation mark after the name "Posh Fish"? It's ironic.  At least I hope it is.  I've been there and posh it 'aint.

Northern half of the UK
Why the link labelled "northern half of the UK" in this sentence
 * It is also generally agreed that the best fish and chips are cooked in the northern half of the UK,

is point to "Northern England" ? I think the northern half of UK should be Scotland. -- Bact 21:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You're right, but the bigger picture is that it is a blatant NPOV violation and I've removed it until a referenced version can be produced. violet/riga (t) 21:55, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * If it is pointed to Nothern England then it should be, not nothern half of UK. I agree, England is the Southern half. --Terence Ong Talk 11:22, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm from the North of England, Lancashire actually, and the 'fish and chips' that stick in my mind as being 'the best' were from a traditional 'chippy' overlooking the harbour in Brixham, Devon. You can't go much further south than that! 80.192.242.187 23:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.

Newspaper
I'm removing the bit about New Zealand using newspaper from the entry, we haven't used printed paper for a long while.

Australian Fish

 * Most Australian F&C Shops sell flake as the main fish not cod? Mike 05:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh and I noticed alot of messages havent been signed remember the 3~ and use of the horizontal line is supposed to be used sparingly just a thought ;) Mike 05:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with flake being the most common type of fish in Australia. I hadn't even heard of cod as a type of fish in F&C shops prior to this article. DynaBlast 18:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

See my note on different NSW / Vic stuff in the Down Under section up above.

I am an Austalian and, what is more, worked at the Sydney Fish Markets for several years. I knew a lot of F&C owners and I have NEVER heard of them using a fish called "reef cod" (A fish I have never heard of, by the by). In Sydney F&C shops, the usual fish used is flake, bream or flathead. 220.233.176.162 (talk) 05:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Beef fat/dripping and vegetarian fish and chips
The page says that using dripping in making fish and chips to impart a flavour also causes the food to be unsuitable for vegitarians. Correct me if I am gravely mistaken, but vegitarians do not eat fish anyway. If this is referring to chips and not the fish, then it should go in the chips article. In any case, I think that part needs to be rewritten.
 * See Pesco/pollo vegetarianism for info on ones who do eat fish. Rmhermen 04:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

You are right: I have edited this section along the lines of your suggestion. Apologies in advance if I've made any mistakes; I am new to editing Wiki, but a massive fan :) BlueEvo2 09:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand
here is a tuff question,what is fish and chips often refer as in new zealand -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mimitchi (talk • contribs) 07:39, 14 June 2006.

Not a tough question, they are just called “fish 'n chips” or even just takeaways. As in "do you want some takeaways? Let's just get fish 'n chips" 203.13.226.2 (talk) 22:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I lived in NZ 28 years i have never heard of a potato 'flip' in a fish and chip shop. Every fish and chip shop i've been to (South island only anyway) sold them as 'potato fritters' or 'potato scallops'. Other common accompiniments are corn fritters, banana fritters, spring rolls, hot donuts with cinammon sugar, onion sausage, or a 'hotdog' which is a sausage on a stick, battered and fried. (This is commonly called a 'Pluto Pup' in Australia). The frank in a bun known as a hotdog in America and elsewhere is referred to as an 'American Hotdog' in NZ. While vinegar is often available and sometimes used, tomato sauce is the most common condiment (similar to ketchup but slightly different flavour). My experience with the fish was to either order a 'fish' where you aren't told the variety- usually a cheap shark variety, or hoki, or you could opt to pay maybe twice as much for a higher quality fish such as blue cod. Often fish and chip shops in nz additionally sell hamburgers with such extras as a fried egg, cheese, beetroot, bacon, pineapple ring or mushrooms. Kiwi fish and chip shops are often run in combination with a chinese takeway. 67.162.133.196 03:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to add that I've lived in NZ since I was born 28 years ago and have never heard of a "flip" either. While reading the section I assumed that it must be some obscure South Island thing. But the previous comment suggests that it just doesn't exist or is perhaps very antiquated. 203.13.226.2 (talk) 22:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a note that banana fritters and pineapple fritters are common offerings in South Australian fish and chip shops as well. Pineapple fritters are often seasoned with brown sugar.

Choice of fish
This section makes broad statements about individual preferences on a national level. Can someone fix the POV violations, or should I just remove the whole thing? Alvis 05:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

well, taken for what it is, I don't think it's a bad thing. I also don't think that anyone will take offense to presumption about their fried fish consumption tendencies.

Perhaps it would be better to have quantified lists of mass consumed on average?

Maybe, IF that data was available. Summarizing individual preferences to national ones is VERY offensive. Alvis 07:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It isn't so much of a PoV violation as just in need of an insightful edit. Stating which variety of fish is the most popular, as determined by sales, would be a better way of doing it than stating "prefer". It isn't offensive, just worded carelessly. WP:AGF :) Devious Viper 19:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Fish and chips shops in the U.S.
I live in the Boston area, and I have never heard of these fast food chains that sell fish and chips in the U.S. In New England (esp. near the coast), fish and chips is sold in a number of different, generally non-chain, establishments.

Small fish markets that also sell raw fish are very common. So are roast beef and seafood shops, often owned by Greek immigrants. The many independent seafood restaurants serve fish and chips along with a wide variety of other seafood dishes. Many also serve a fish sandwich with chips that is smaller than fish and chips, but several times as large as a fast food restaurant.

The fish is usually haddock. It used to be cod, but cod are in shorter supply than haddock. There is little or no difference in taste. It is usually obtained fresh.

Most fish markets and some supermarkets that sell fresh fish also cook fish and chips as well as other seafood meals here in New England. Also locally owned restaurants here serve fish and chips, and the better ones use fresh seafood. This section seems to be an ignorant attack on America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.249.113 (talk) 21:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't soppose the southern states sell fish n chips. Just the New England area? Ron James 007 (talk) 08:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Beanies (or Beanys)
Another offering on some fish and chips shop menus, at least in North Yorkshire, is the beany. This is a couple of tablespoons of baked beans surrounded by sausage meat (presumably pork) and then battered. At the budget end of the menu scale, down with patties/scallops. I can't confirm whether they still do them, and an internet search rendered no results, but they did exist and are fondly remembered (by me.) There were also similar products available in frozen form, fo r home cooking, but with mashed potato instead of the sausage meat.89.132.107.198 10:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)Stephen Patrick

Special Fish
In the UK a special fish is not one that is fried in breadcrumbs as the previous edit stated, a special fish is just a larger than normal fish fillet but still fried in batter.


 * It varies: it's generally a larger one in England (especially the South) but the aforementioned battered one in Scotland (especially the East).

Newspaper
Here in Vancouver, many places still serve takeout fish and chips packaged in newspaper. I was raised thinking this was the norm, so imagine my disbelief when I so this this was not so on Wiki. Surely this must not be an isolated case? 207.81.213.37 11:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

As stated below, New Zealanders apparently stopped serving it in newspaper some time ago, and it's certainly true that the practice is either history or very nearly so in the UK too. Guy Hatton 12:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Fish and chips are not served in newspaper in the UK and have not been for at least 10 years now (which is a shame because they tasted better). Also, reference [1] has absolutely no mention of newspaper wrapped fish and chips at all.

Where I live, they are served not in actual newspapers, but in a type of paper which is very similar to newspapers. Everywhere in the Midlands serves chips in this sort of paper wrapping, with very few, mostly Southern England chippies serving the chips in a polystyrene or foil tray.

The paper on which newspapers are printed is called "newsprint". The use of actual newspapers as food wrapping was banned for hygiene reasons and replaced by unused newsprint. Letsgetthingsright (talk) 03:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Fish and chips are still usually served in newspaper in New Zealand- I had some today. The inner layers should be plain greaseproof paper, of course, but the outer wrapping is still newspaper.JohnC (talk) 02:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

There used to be a popular saying in Britain,when someone was worried about becoming notorious,"Today`s headline is tomorrow`s chip wrapper"94.196.221.77 (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Ireland : "single?"
"A "single and chips", often ordered in Dublin, ...." Considering that "single" is a Dublin term for a portion of chips as in :"I'll have 2 singles and a batter sausage please" its pretty unlikely anyone would ask for a single and chips. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Luas dublin (talk • contribs) 09:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC). Luas dublin 09:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Documentation
Demands for documentation about such matters as the relative balance of types of fish sold seem a bit precious. This is popular culture. Only direct observation is likely to be available.

Rathfelder 17:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, do we really have to have "citation needed" after every bloody sentence? IMO, "citation needed" is what you put there if you dispute the content, are too lazy to find to find a counter-reference and simply think the original author should find a reference of his own instead. If nobody is going to actively dispute the content then just remove the "citation needed" nonsense. It will be implied. --TheCynic 21:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The original author is much more likely to know the source of his own information because he wrote it. In my opinion this article can't have too many citation needed tags - perhaps they can help root out the current reams of potentionally unverifiable and unfactual information in it. The fact that no-one has disputed it is is likely due to the fact that much of it is annecdotal facts on supposed local customs and variations, often dealing with very small localities. Far too much of this stuff is of a very trifling nature and, I feel, given undue prominence in an article dealing with a much more notable topic. And furthermore, wikipedia does have apolicy on original research. 86.29.193.217 (talk) 02:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ban this article
It's 10.50pm, the chippy's shut and thanks to this page my gut's rumbling! LOL! Duncan McAlister 22.48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Try living abroad, SqueakBox 03:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Try growing up, so you want to edit the Talk area of Wikipedia, because you were too slack to get food earlier?, yeah OK. Trumpy (talk) 07:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Villages
The claim that most villages in the UK have at least one chippy is rubbish. Pub yes, chippy no.Codpiece1900 20.48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

In Canada
The article claims that Canadian "shops usually letting the customer choose the particular fish for their dish." Baloney. Most shops serve either haddock or cod, and you don't get to choose. Perhaps in high-class restaurants, but definately not your average small-town fish n' chip.

someone elses comment:

every shop i've been to (which is many) let you choose

also to add every onve i've been to serves snapper as well as halibut and cod so I think that should be added in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.112.187 (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Cheese and Potato/Corned Beef and Potato Patties
There is no mention of these in the article, are they unique to the North east of England ? Gazh 08:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Still on the subject of cheese, in Cardiff a few shops serve cheese on the chips. is this done anywhere else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.93.136 (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

In Cumbria and the North East of England Chips with Grated Cheese and Gravy has become popular in recent years especially with teenagers Penrithguy (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I am not surpriused. But what we need for inclusion in the article is reliable sources. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:47, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Move to ban Canterbury Tail from editing this article?
He is engaging in petty edit wars here. I will WP:AFG on this one but it certainly seems like vandalism. 72.93.206.32 (talk) 02:16, 11 June 2022 (UTC)


 * A little hypocritical, don't you think? - Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 06:09, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Lets look at this shall we? 1) you made an edit, and I reverted you once. Once. So I've not edit warred, I've followed regular editing procedures and not touched it again. As per WP:BRD now you are supposed to bring it to the talk page, but instead 2) you have made the same edit 3 times now and are the one clearly edit warring. 3) Lets look at the references. The Les Back reference states that chips came from the French and the Jewish tradition of frying fish in a section of a book literally on how English things aren't English but were brought in by other people. The BBC reference states that chips came from France or Belgium and very clearly "fried fish was introduced into Britain by Jewish refugees from Portugal and Spain." In those times food generally travelled not by people visiting other places and going Oh that's nice, but by people migration. 4) I think your Ctrl f that you tell other people to use is broken, as the BBC article very definitely uses the word immigrant "Others claim the first combined fish 'n' chip shop was actually opened by a Jewish immigrant, Joseph Malin, within the sound of Bow Bells in East London around 1860" which would make it the first fish and chip shop. So I will boomerang this one right around here and you're the one edit warring both against other editors and the references, I reverted you once. And finally 5) I fully expect someone to come along and revert you shortly. Canterbury Tail talk 11:00, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We get it...you don't like the "J-words" and their involvement in UK affairs. 168.215.198.4 (talk) 19:24, 31 December 2022 (UTC)