Talk:Five-by-five (basketball)

Michael Jordan/Near Misses
Would you like help in finding near misses of five-by-fives? On several occassions, Michael Jordan has missed a five-by-five with a figure of 4 in one of the five statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TyrusThomas4lyf (talk • contribs)

Since he did not achieve it, the honerable mention should only go on the Michael Jordan page. stuston (talk) 17:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Research Help Appreciated
These are specific things I sort of know about but don't have much info on, even how to find it, so if any one else knows how and can find this info, that would be great.

1. a. The Dave Allessandro article referenced on the page mentions Hakeem and Kirilenko are the only two players with multiple career five-by-fives and then says seven others have done it once. Well, the five-by-fives I put on the page are all from basketball-reference.com. The guy has all box scores from 1986-87 up until the last completed season. So, all five-by-fives in that time are on the list. But, there are two other players who have achieved five-by-fives (according to that article) that I know nothing about... who they are, when they did it, what the stats were and on and on. Also, Hakeem's career started in 1984-85 so it is possible he achieved another one or two sometime in 1984-85 or 1985-86 and it would be nice if someone could check this somehow.
 * Update, I've found several articles mentioning Hakeem having only 6. So, I think we can assume he did not achieve one in his first two seasons.  So, this list has all but two five-by-fives, one each by two different players not currently on the list. StatisticsMan 16:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

1. b. basketball-reference.com only has playoff box scores since the 1996 playoffs. I have no info at all on whether or not someone has achieved a five-by-five in the playoffs other than I know no one has from 1996-2006 inclusive because I searched on the basketball-reference.com box score search page. As mentioned, Chris Webber was once a steal short. No one else was that close. If any one has info on previous playoffs, that'd be nice.

2. I am going to add something in on "greatest career five-by-fives" which would be the person who has the highest number of all stats... that is I know of four players whose career highs are at least 8 in all five stats so I will call that a career five-by-eight. This is of interest because it has been claimed that quintuple doubles are so highly unlikely that no one has ever even achieved a career quintuple-double. This could be something to do on this page. So, I have a list of every player with at least 9 steals and I'm thinking about making a separate page with that list. Then, all that needs be done is find the career highs in, presumably, blocks for all those guys. For more recent players, this is easy because NBA.com will have them. In fact, combining box score searches from basketball-reference.com and career highs from nba.com, I have looked at every instance of 8 or more steals since 1986-87 until the last completed season. And, for all but about 5 players, I know their career highs in other things so I know of those people none have achieved a five-by-nine career and I have found every one of them who has achieved a career five-by-eight. I have a list of 65 players who I know do not have career five-by-eights. I picked them strategically, so they are not just 65 random current players. They are players I knew had high stats in steals or blocks, and all played at least until somewhere around 1994. For players who played in the 70s and 80s mostly, this is very hard to do. It would be nice to get some help on that.

3. This is not so important but is an interesting stat related to this, especially related to the likelihood of a quintuple double. I did a search of all regular season box scores from 1986-87 until last complete season and found only three people in that time period even had as many as 6 each of blocks and steals. Two of those are Hakeem and AK, listed in the five-by-fives. The other was David Robinson who got 6 each, but only had 2 assists so no five-by-five, in only 24 minutes of play. Hakeem's is by far the most impressive with 12 blocks and 7 steals. Has any one else gotten 7 of each or has any one ever had 8 of each? I'm sure no one has done 9 each and this might be possible to be verified. But, just the fact that maybe only three players have ever had even 6 blocks and steals in a game shows a quintuple double is extremely unlikely. StatisticsMan 18:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Page history
This whole thing was done completely wrong, in terms of the move and the deleting of talk page contents, I'm going to have an admin look into this and correct the mistakes. Quadzilla99 22:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I just did it myself I moved the talk page contents of the old article here and archived them, editors should never delete old discussions see WP:TALK, instead you're supposed to archive them. And if you want to rename an article, you're supposed to move it. Quadzilla99 22:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I came here because I remembered seeing this article and as I'm the main contributor to Hakeem Olajuwon I wanted to put a link to this article in his. I couldn't get the title so I had to look and well I dscovered this whole mess. I moved this page to the correct title (the second five shouldn't have been capitalized). Quadzilla99 22:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. I looked at the stuff on moving a page and frankly I couldn't find a move page button.  Also, moving it 'caused a redirect which is not necessary 'cause I was moving it to a title that is better and the old title should just be deleted as far as I'm concerned.  Also, I was told that I could just copy the page and ask for the old to have a "speedy deletion" or something by someone.  And, in looking at all that, it says that if only one author has worked on a page, he can erase it all and that would be his way of asking for a speedy deletion (which I did for the old page).  As far as the talk page, me and a guy had talked but most of what I was saying wasn't much important any way so I didn't see the need to keep the history (and we both agreed it was alright to delete it all).  Not to mention, the wiki article on talk pages says to keep the stuff relevant and most of what I talked about wasn't really so that I saw as yet another reason to delete it.  And, since the page itself (not the talk page) is only a few days old, all done by me, and the only different saves are just steps I was taking over a few days, not really the article evolving over time, I didn't really see any advantage to having the history.  I just had time to do some at first so I did that, then more later, did that, and so on.


 * But, I know you know way more about this than me. I'm not saying it was all cool of me.  I just don't know what I'm doing.


 * Also, as far as the cleanup messages, what's up? I just want to understand.  For the references, is the only problem that there are so many without names?  If so, I will get to that, and have planned to, but I just haven't yet.  As far as the external links, honestly, every link on the page pretty much is one I have used to get info for the article.  And, there are lots of links I have used but have not put up.  I need the NBA.com pages of those guys because it's the only source I know of which lists career highs, which I used for all of them (and probably 65+ other guys by the way just to find those who have career five-by-eights and all that).  That's all I got really.  Let me know if you have more suggestions or comments or whatever.  Sorry for being a pain.

StatisticsMan 04:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't move an article to the title of an article that already exists (an admin can but will only do it if the existing article has little to no history, as it will wipe out the history of the new history), it's easy to move a page to a new title; you just hit move button which is on the top of the page (assuming you have the default skin) and it's self explanatory. Quadzilla99 04:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No article existed. I made a new article.  I see no move button at the top of my page at all.  I am in the default skin 'cause I checked 'cause the page about moving pages says you can't be in a certain skin.  And, by the way, that was my first time in preferences so I doubt I changed it from the default before that.  There's a redirect button.  But, I did not want to redirect.  I wanted the old page gone since if I had planned better I would have just put it here a few days ago instead.  Any way, I just don't know what I'm doing. StatisticsMan 05:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Hakeem's 6 five-by-fives
Hey Quad, is this something you know is true for sure? I think I've found only one site that lists Hakeem as having 6. But, that same site also says "According to the Jazz, Kirilenko and Hakeem Olajuwon are the only players to have achieved a "five-by-five"." That obviously is wrong so it'd be nice to get verification of Hakeem having 6 somewhere else as well. I know I have exactly 6 box scores, but as I said, there are two years of his career for which I know nothing as far as his game-by-game stats. That's why, down by Most Five-by-Fives in a career, I mentioned that Hakeem had "at least 6". Thanks for your help on getting this into the NBA project and fixing my mistakes. StatisticsMan 04:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Search
Hey, not sure what's going on but if you search for five-by-five basketball, all that comes up as far as these pages is the old "basketball_five-by-five" page. First, can't we delete that page? All the info contained on it is now here. Second, this page doesn't come up at all on the search so is something messed up? StatisticsMan 16:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Changes
I just made some changes, though nothing major. I did a lot more of in Wiki links. In doing so, I only picked out relevant things such as a player or a team or a basketball term but not irrelevant things such as a date.

I also included links to the box scores for the five-by-fives. Just click the date in the table and it takes you directly to the box score.

In the table, I added in columsn to indicate the score and whether or not the team with the player who achieved the five-by-five won or lost. To make room, I abbreviated headers such as points to pts and so on. I also right justified all numbers which were not already right justified.

I did a few small edits other than this. For example, it did read "Other active players to be within 1 stat..." but in the list was Kevin Garnett whom I had just talked about so the word other makes it the wrong wording. I changed it to "There are three active players to..."

StatisticsMan 04:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
How is that section a trivia section? It's sort of trivia. But, it's not trivia like "trivia" here on Wikipedia. It's just a group of facts on the subject. As with the references needed note, which was dumb (this is not as dumb, maybe not even dumb), I will remove this tag unless someone explains why they put it there. There are supposed to be discussions about editing things and apparently I'm the only one who does it.

StatisticsMan 14:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, it's gone.

StatisticsMan 19:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Players with 5+ steals and 5+ blocked shots in one game
I do not think it applies here because that would be a Five-by-two, this is the five-by-five page. This seems like trivia more suited for these individuals' pages. It should be removed. stuston (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I can see this. But, I also think it applies because that is the hardest part of getting a 5-by-5.  A person who can get 5 steals and 5 blocks is almost certainly capable of 5 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists, so this person is someone who is capable of getting a 5-by-5, whereas many NBA players never achieve 5 steals in any game in their entire career, or 5 blocks, let alone both feats in the same game.  Seeing as only 10 people have achieved this since 1986-87, who did not also achieve a 5-by-5, only 17 total players since that time have even achieved the seemingly simple 5 steals and 5 blocks in a game.  This is similar to the near-misses section in the quadruple-double page I would say.  I believe it applies to show how few players can even get those 2 specific stats, let alone put it together with the other 3. StatisticsMan (talk) 18:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * In fact, I just did a search on basketball-reference and just 5 steals and 5 blocks has only happened 47 times (including the 5-by-5s and players who had 5-by-5s) by 17 total players since 1986-87, with 20 of these by Hakeem Olajuwon. So, this seems to be the best candidate for a "near-miss" unless you want to also include people who had 5 steals, 5 blocks but only 4 assists or rebounds.  If we define "near-miss" here to mean 5 steals, 5 blocks, but maybe only 1 shy on 1 stat (so 4 boards, or 4 assists), then there are only 3 near-misses since 1986-87, 2 of them by people who also got 5-by-5s.  So, I think the section is good as it shows a few other players who have been close, whereas if we make it any more restrictive, it will be basically empty. StatisticsMan (talk) 19:17, 7 February 2009 (UTC)