Talk:Fixed anvil temperature hypothesis

Suggestion for lead
The fixed anvil temperature hypothesis is the hypothesis that the temperature at the tops of anvil clouds stays the same regardless of the temperature of the Earth's surface below. From observations and computer simulations of these clouds most meteorologists think the idea is correct, but some evidence suggests that the temperature at the tops of these clouds varies slightly with surface temperature.

Further researching the hypothesis is important for improving climate change forecasts, because it effects how much the world heats up for each extra tonne of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, since anvil clouds are the biggest source of heat leaving the Earth from rising hot air in the tropics. Chidgk1 (talk) 12:11, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I am a little concerned that this includes a lot of information not stated in the article. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Oh perhaps I misunderstood some of the article? Which info here is not in the article? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Currently the article does not elaborate this information. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:30, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The article says "The fixed anvil temperature hypothesis has effects on global climate sensitivity, since anvil clouds are the most important source of outgoing radiation linked to tropical convection[22] and their temperature being stable would render the outgoing radiation non-responsive to surface temperature changes." which I tried to simplify as "it effects how much the world heats up for each extra tonne of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, since anvil clouds are the biggest source of heat leaving the Earth from rising hot air in the tropics." Is that wrong or are you referring to some other info? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Ah and as the next sentence in the article says "positive feedback" presumably instead of "it effects ...." above we could write "it increases...."? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The concern I have is that your interpretation might not be so straightforward as to escape the WP:SYNTH rules. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 17:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Can you explain exactly where? Chidgk1 (talk) 05:28, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I am mainly concerned about the "greenhouse gas" and " anvil clouds are the biggest source of heat leaving the Earth from rising hot air in the tropics." things. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I thought "anvil clouds are the most important source of outgoing radiation linked to tropical convection" meant the same as " anvil clouds are the biggest source of heat leaving the Earth from rising hot air in the tropics." Would "carbon dioxide" be correct instead of "greenhouse gas"? Chidgk1 (talk) 08:53, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The thing is that this article does not principally discuss the greenhouse effect. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I just thought the lead should be clear about why the hypothesis is important. Perhaps whoever reviews the DYK will have an idea about the lead if they read this discussion. Anyway thanks for writing about an important subject - I now leave it for others if anyone wishes to comment further. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

I wonder if anyone has drawn an explicit link between FATH and global warming; perhaps might know. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:05, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm convinced that greenhouse gases is fine, as that's simply an extension of the definition of climate sensitivity (CO2 and well-mixed greenhouse gases can be used interexchangeably, but there are some short-lived greenhouse gases that behave different). We are allowed to use dictionary definitions to explain stuff, that's not OR. For me the link is specific.


 * Outgoing radiation is not quite the same as heat, as heat can be transported differently too, so that sentence may lose its technical accuracy. It's say that rising hot air is less precise, but does not change the meaning of tropical convection, so is a fine way to comply better with WP:EXPLAINLEAD.


 * The "further research" and "forecasts" bit is not present in the body I think, so that'll need some rewording.


 * I find parts of the article quite difficult to understand (after long working day), specifically the background section. Chidgk1 has been a massive help making my articles more understandable :). Anyway, I'm supposed to have a wikibreak, and I'm typing because the wikibreak enforcer is broken for mobile view.

FemkeMilene (talk) 16:48, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I just realized the weak link in my logic (Femkemilene! Stop reading this and put that phone back in your pocket right NOW!) - as I was saying Jo-Jo Eumerus, I understand that cloud feedback is very important for climate change, and I understand FATH is very important for tropical clouds. But I don't know how important tropical clouds are in total global cloud feedback - maybe you have a rough idea? Chidgk1 (talk) 07:12, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * See, that's why I called Femkemilene - I don't really know myself. I've put the greenhouse gas bit in, though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:14, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Can iris hypothesis also be correct?
article says "An alternative hypothesis is the iris hypothesis" but can they not both be correct? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:25, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think so, yes, but they'd have opposite effects on climate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:30, 4 July 2021 (UTC)