Talk:Flag of India/Archive 1

History of Design of Flag
It may be worthy to add information regarding the design decisions that made the Ashoka Chakra in the center of the flag. It was while on a discussion with Chia-Luen Lo, the Chineese ambassador to India at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knight177 (talk • contribs) 06:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comments
I really like the idea of entries liked this. Comments:


 * Shouldn't we change the intro to something more like Flag of the United States?
 * Is there/should there be a list of nicknames/apellations for flags?--iFaqeer 20:59, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)


 * I tried to base the basic structure of this entry like that of the United States flag. Creating a new article is generally harder for me than editing one. I was (still am) swarmed with information on the tiranga. Please feel free to edit and add any information you may have to the entry to make it more appealing to visitors.
 * Apart from being called the Tiranga, I'm not sure if the flag has any other name. My source for information has been the Indian Flags Act. Most of the history of the flag is available in one of the enternal links displayed in this entry. Please feel free to visit that site and add information to this entry. AreJay 15:52, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Not being an Indian myself and not having read the official Flag Code, etc. I wasn't sure whether "Tiranga" is an officially recognized/mandated name for the flag. If it is, then the first line in the article should be more specific, no? Will come back to it.--iFaqeer 18:28, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)


 * The flag in the Flag Code of India Act is referred to as The Indian National Flag and variants of that name (The Flag, National Flag, etc). The word "Tiranga" does not exist in the Flag Code of India. However, there is the use of the word "tricolour", which literally translates in to tiranga in Sanskrit. The word generally appealed to poets and literary scholars during the Indian Independence struggle, and it is now common practice to refer to the flag as the tiranga. AreJay 20:36, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * As far as I know tiranga is not a sanskrit word. It can be broken down as ti(three) + ranga (from rang for color). Now, 'rang' is not a Sanskrit word - it is more of a Hindi/Urdu word. In sanskrit, the word would probably be 'varna' - as in shweta-varna (white color) or shyam-varna (dark colored). Also, the usage of the word tiranga is more widespread in the Hindi heartland (Madhya Pradesh/UP/Delhi etc.). I have lived for many years in MP and subsequently in Karnataka (southern state), so I can attest to this firsthand. I would like to suggest that this page be titled as the 'Flag Of the Republic Of India' (something along those lines). 'Tiranga' can be in the description of the article as a popular name for the flag in the northern regions of the country. --Mjaganna


 * I really do not understand why a new article was created in the first place?!! If like you say, you are more comfortable editing old articles rather than creating new ones. Flag of India was a fine article and was in accordance with Wikipedia conventions. You could simply have added to that article. The name Tiranga is not official and hence it is an unconventional name for an article. More people will come looking for Flag of India rather than Tiranga. I think the Redirect should be from Tiranga to Flag of India. In fact your article did not even have an introductory part when first created - absolutely unwiki. I'll redirect from Tiranga to Flag of India, because every article on Wikipedia about flags has that name. Just waiting for your response. I also think that it is pointless to add Flag code to this article. It is lengthy and boring anyone interested will visit the external link. The points should be compiled into a small paragraph. --Ankur 05:27, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Flag of United Kingdom redirects to Union Jack, Flag of France redirects to Tricolore. So there is nothing wrong in redirecting Flag of India to Tiranga, as long as it is accepted by majority of Indians (and not just speakers of Hindi.) --Ankur 20:19, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I think is a generally accepted "indianized" name for tricolour. It's not a matter of anyone speaking Hindi or not. I don't know Hindi, but rang (with modifications) means color even in south Indian languages (and I can attest that to be true for atleast 2 languages). However, I don't live in Indian and people that live there probably have a better gauge of the usage of the word in the various regions of the country. AreJay 20:28, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Another comment, this one about the link to Chakra from the sentence where Ashoka Chakra is introduced. That article talks about the chakras in the context of the human body and consciousness. The chakra in Ashoka Chakra primarily refers to the circle or wheel aspect of it - which is the literal meaning of chakra in Sanskrit. If this sounds reasonable, we can remove the link to the Chakra article, because I think the link connotes a meaning that is inappropriate in this context.

Page move
(from WP:RM) WATEVA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.70.85 (talk) 12:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

British Viceroy Flag
Maybe this flag should also be added? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:India-Viceroy-1885.svg

British India UN Flag
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govpub/collections/wwii-posters/img/ww0207-88.jpg This shows a flag of India which isn't on the page under the banner of a UN nation.

Tricolore &#8594; Flag of France; Tiranga &#8594; Flag of India
[...] [...]
 * Agree. And please also move Tiranga to Flag of India. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality/talk]] 21:13, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * And Union Jack to Flag of the United Kingdom? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:31, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Meaning
Saffron - Hinduism, White - Christianity, Green - Islam
 * We need more clarity on what each colour signifies, there are various versions available for e.g.,

OR

Saffron - Purity and spirituality, White- Peace and truth, Green - Fertility and prosperity


 * It mentioned that it is devoid of the communal overtones. You can add the latter. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  June 29, 2005 11:49 (UTC)

Spinning wheel
Any reason for removing Image:Free India flag.jpg? --Error 29 June 2005 01:53 (UTC)


 * There's no image by that name. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  June 29, 2005 07:14 (UTC)
 * The above file name is incorrect. Yeah, I'll be doing up the images. It will be back. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  June 29, 2005 08:51 (UTC)


 * Was it the flag of Azad Hind or not? It is only listed as "flag of 1931". --Error 1 July 2005 00:37 (UTC)
 * No it wasn't See . The Azad Hind flag is shown here. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  July 1, 2005 09:40 (UTC)


 * What Flags of the World says is that the tiger flag was used by the Indian Infantry Regiment 950. But Ed Haynes says that:
 * When the provisional government was announced in Berlin in 1942, the standard Indian National Congress flag was used: like the modern Indian flag but with what was more obviously a spinning wheel in the center. Interviews with veterans and photographs both from Europe and Asia confirm the use of this flag. The flag described (with the springing tiger) has a doubtful pedigree, although the German unit (never SS, by the way!) may have used it briefly, in early 1944.
 * Ed Haynes, 18 April 1997
 * However the quoted "Flags of the Third Reich" by Brian L Davis, that happens to be in my posession, has a B&W photo in page 93 of a ceremony (6 November 1943) to mark the creation of the provisional Indian National Government. A.C.N. Nambiar speaks to a crowd while a soldier holds a flag in which I only make a top band with "AZAD" on it. I couldn't say if it is the country flag or that of the already formed Free India Legion.
 * --Error 3 July 2005 01:26 (UTC)


 * Feel free to modify the text and include the reference. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  July 3, 2005 05:13 (UTC)

Meaning of tricolor
I do'nt think three colors are meant to mean, religion. As is clearly visible in our constituation.

Draped : Martyr
Should we include a section on draping of a coffin with the flag ?.
 * Sure. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 2 July 2005 04:50 (UTC)


 * It is already mentioned in the article. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  July 2, 2005 08:28 (UTC)
 * Should we grab a picture to show how the flag is drapped on a coffin? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 2 July 2005 16:14 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should put up a non-free/fair use image here. If you can pull out one free image, it would be great. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  July 2, 2005 17:35 (UTC)
 * The closest thing I found so far was from the funeral of Mother Teresa, but it was taken by the AP. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 2 July 2005 23:09 (UTC)

Nivedita's flag
I have removed the text on the Nivedita's letter in 1904. It seems a little odd, and causes an abrupt change in the original meaning of the flag. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  July 2, 2005 08:48 (UTC)

hi Nichalp, that explains the reason for inclusion of saffron colour, which has been retained since then. Could that be included so that Sister Nivedita gets the recognition for adding that colour ? Since you have done most of the contribution to the article, decision is yours!! Ramashray 15:07, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, information on the flag is awfully sketchy. Afterall it happened 100 yrs ago! From the colours didn't have any significance, and there are no reports indicating that the red had religious overtones. The letter says otherwise, but have no other sources to crosscheck the authenticity of the same. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  17:40, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

tiranga in Hindi
Varun: The spelling is correct. Your browser is at fault. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  July 4, 2005 15:45 (UTC)

No it's not. It is displayed incorrectly in *all* current browsers (on *nix and Windows) *except* for surprisingly enough (sic), Internet Explorer. Browsers checked include Mozilla, Firefox and Opera, and I have third party confirmation for Safari. On all these browsers, it's rendered as Thariga.

Also, shouldn't Tiranga be Thiranga or something more phoenetically accurate? I believe that will be more accurate. People unfamiliar with the language read it as "Tea Rang", which is rather comical.


 * I'm using Opera 8.01, and it displays correctly. Try and type "Tiranga" in the Windows character map, and then compare with the version here. It is the exact rendering. This proves the browser is really at fault. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  13:21, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

OK, I found a page: please read Enabling complex text support for Indic scripts. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  20:46, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

table
Nichalp, you removed the table and I understand your point about having the flag lined up with the text but the text is not big enough so the flags merely go into the next section... do you really think that looks better, or do you plan to expand enough or do you use a really low resolution? gren 5 July 2005 03:58 (UTC)


 * Well my resolution is 800x600, the web default. In wikipedia we have to make sure that no obvious problems are there at this default resolution. In 800x600, the each flag corresponds to the text given alongside. If you want I could upload a screenshot at this resolution. Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  July 5, 2005 05:39 (UTC)
 * This is the most hilarious comment on this subject that I've seen since 1998, when sites would have stamps that said "This site best viewed at 16 inches" or "This site best viewed in MY OWN browser. If you're not in my office on my computer, YMMV". 68.124.22.249 17:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

A few ommissions

 * According to military history, the INA (Indian National Army) hoisted the tricolor in India during the second world war in Manipur (North East Indian state). The flag that was flown is the one used just before the current tricolour. This was in an "official" ceremony though it was only a temporary one as months later they lost the territory and the war. This makes it the first instance of the tricolour being flown in an indian territory.


 * Just before the 1931 flag was designed and adopted another flag was in circulation. It had a reddish-saffron colour with a "chakra" or spinning wheel in the top left. It was later given up in favour of the tiranga with a spinning wheel. This is also missing as it is often used in history textbooks in India to show that India wanted to project a more broad impression instead of a communalistic/communist ideologoy.--Idleguy 08:40, July 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * You can go ahead and add more details to it. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  08:43, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Circular reference??
I think there is a circular reference on this page. The link for Indian Flag Code redirects to the same page. Is this intentional?? -- Rohitbd


 * No its not. That page should be the Flag Code of India. ie. An explaination of the text.  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  14:58, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Alleged factual error
Originally posted by 172.194.63.110 at Wikipedia talk:Tomorrow's featured article. Regarding the article on the Flag of India: Whoever wrote this piece is not adequately familiar with basic dates in modern Indian history. The article says the Tiranga was adopted as the flag of the Republic of India on 22 July 1947; and then suggests the Republic of India became independent on 15 August 1947. Neither fact is correct.

The Tiranga was adopted as the "Flag of India" on 22 July 1947. Only this wording is correct, because the Republic of India did not exist until 26 January 1950 -- but the flag adopted in 1947 for the DOMINION of India did not change.

Midnight 15 August 1947 was the moment when the British "Empire of India" became, partly, the "Dominion of India." HM George VI, Emperor of India, became (until 26 January 1950) HM George VI, King of India; and his representative in Delhi, HE Lord Louis Mountbatten, Viceroy of India, became HE Lord Louis Mountbatten, Governor General of India.

One day earlier, on 14 August 1947, the Dominion of Pakistan became independent -- with HM George VI, Emperor of India, becoming HM George VI, King of Pakistan; and Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the leader of the Muslim League, who would not accept a joint governor general of India and Pakistan, became HE Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Governor General of Pakistan. Elizabeth II, Queen of Pakistan, was the last monarch. The Republic of Pakistan was proclaimed in 1954. East Pakistan seceded from Pakistan as the Republic of Bangladesh in 1972. (posted here by Harro5)


 * Oh yes, you're absolutely right, we agree that it was an oversight. Are you aware that you too could have corrected the error? =Nichalp   «Talk»=  06:15, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Charkha & symbolism
The flag of India does not have the charkha on it. It has the chakra taken from the Emblem of India. The charkha is on the 1931 flag image (above the Azad Hind flag). The symbolism has to do with the flag today, and the charkha info is already mentioned in the history section. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  11:32, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Wonderful job!
Great job on the article, folks. A heartfelt thanks all of you who worked on this article. --H P Nadig * \Talk \Contributions 07:10, 15 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll be the first to take the thanx unabashedly since I happened to reply first. HeHe. :-) Anyways here's to the spirit of Wikipedia. Cheers. Idleguy 07:56, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Naveen Jindal
Please note that the right way to spell this is "Naveen Jindal" and not "Navin Jindal." Please see Talk:Naveen Jindal for the reasoning. The least we could do for "the guy who fought for every Indian's right to fly his/her national flag" is to spell his name correctly, right? ;-) -Gurubrahma 05:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No arguments with that. :) Just make sure Navin redirects to the correct place, and correct all traces of "Navin" we have on WP. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  06:11, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Handling of the Flag
Is it really meant to say this?:

"Tradition also states that when draped vertically, the fart should not merely be rotated through..."

I'm guessing the word "fart" is meant to say "flag", but maybe there's another use to the word "fart" I don't know about. I'll leave it as is, someone who knows more about the subject can decide whether or not to make changes. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.110.223.65 (talk • contribs).


 * Good call. I've fixed the typo. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 04:02, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Linked the "Chakara" in Symbolism to Ashoka Chakra
Linked the "Chakara" in Symbolism to Ashoka Chakra. Ref:


 * Updated the image with GFDL svg version. --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 10:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Picture of the flag
Since there's not been much feedback on Commons:Image_talk:Flag_of_India.svg, I would like to invite everyone to pay the site a short visit and give some comments. Thanks --Pumbaa80 12:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Wallpaper at the end of the Article
There seems to be an out of place wallpaper at the end of the article, I say we remove it. --Girish 09:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

UN flag
According to, the UN flag can now be hoisted with the Indian flag on UN's Birthday (October 25) anywhere in India (with some exceptions). Can yall add this information in to where yall see fit? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

This information is already there in the article.

Chanakyathegreat 06:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

New section on the name of National flag in local languages
There can be a new section for the the name of the flag in Local languages.


 * [Tirangā – तिरंगा (in Hindi)]


 * [Trivarna pathaka – तिरंगा ]] (in Malayalam]).


 * -- In Marathi etc.

Expand here and later after verification can be added to the Main section.

Chanakyathegreat 06:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The colours of the Tricolour
I noticed that in the Tricolour shown both on this page and the India page, the top horizontal band is really safety orange or blaze orange rather than saffron. As such it is much closer to true orange, for example in the Irish tricolour, than it is to saffron. A true saffron, white, and green tricolour should look something like: this]. This brings up a number of issues:


 * What is the official Government of India version of the colour? Well, the official website of the Indian flag says that the top band is coloured deep saffron (kesari).  The adjective deep in reference to colour (and colour theory) means higher saturation and less brightness for the same hue.  For saffron whose (Hue, Saturation, Brightness) values are (45°, 80%, 96%), a deeper version would look like goldenrod with (H,S,B) = (43°, 85%, 85%) or dark goldenrod with (H,S,B) = (43°, 94%, 72%), but not the colour which is shown on the official website, which is a reddish orange closest to international orange with (H,S,B) = (19°, 100%, 100%), which is a very different hue (H-value) than saffron or deep saffron.  What is the real colour?  The Flag of India page doesn't give the (H,S,B) (same as HSV) values or even the RGB values.  Does some one have these values (i.e. the official version)?
 * What colour is actually used in the real flags? Does any one have first-hand information of this?  What are the official colours flown on government buildings? Are they true saffron, or deep saffron, or are they reddish-orange?
 * Also, there seems to be too much similarity between the Irish tricolour and the Indian tricolour for it to be just coincidence. The Irish tricolour was first flown by Irish nationalists in the mid-1850s.  There were of course links between the Indian home rule movement and the Irish Home Rule movement, with some figures like Annie Besant and Sister Nivedita with connections to both.  The web site says this about the Indian tricolour: "More unofficially, the flag was patterned on the other example of struggle against British imperialism, Ireland."  The Flag of India page mentions this casually a few times, but I wonder if there is more to the story.  Any information?

Fowler&amp;fowler 00:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Update: Well, the Flag of India page does give the (CYMK) value of the "saffron," which is (0,50,90,0). This is certainly not close to true saffron (CYMK = (4, 23, 81, 5)), or even a deep saffron like goldenrod (CYMK = (0, 24, 85, 15)), but does seem to be very close to the color pumpkin which has a CYMK = (0,54,90,0) and HSV = (24°, 90%, 100%). Does anyone know if the values on the Flag of India page are official values? (Also, the flag shown there doesn't correspond to the CYMK value given.) Fowler&amp;fowler 02:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem is not only with the saffron. What about the white, for instance? The article says that the textile color should be actually Cool Grey. That would suggest that it should not be perfectly white and approximating it by RGB #FFFFFF seems wrong. Are there any official specifications of the Indian national colors, such as exact coordinates in a color space such as CMYK or Pantone (compare Flag of Poland)? Currently the only source for the color values given the article is the India page on FOTW which says that the coordinates they give are only approximates, so they cannot be official. How does the BIS determine if a flag has the right colors? Do they just look at them or do they perform some laboratory tests to fo find the exact color values? Kpalion 01:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for replying. Since you are the only one who has replied to this posting in two months and since you have similar issues, I feel it is time to point this out on the page itself.  I will add some text and await feedback from you and others.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Article Neads Cleanup
This article definitely needs some cleanup, such as in the following points: -This article needs a lot more references in order for it to be made into a more trustworthy article. -The external links section needs more links and needs to be organized into an orderly fashion, divided into "official" and "unofficial" websites, each of them divided into groups. -The "see also" section needs more links to other Wikipedia articles relating to India. -This article needs many more details on certain sections. -Of course, this article needs to be put under a degree of protection in order to prevent potential vandalism. Someone, please help cleanup this article; it definitely needs it in order to match the standard of other featured articles! Johnsmithcba 15:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I recommend WP:FAR. nadav 06:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Revert
I have reverted the only edit by this anonymous person. Technically, it's not a revert; I just copied and pasted the original version of the section he/she changed ("With other countries"). Their vandalism can be found here. --V2Blast 20:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This strikes me as unacceptable for some kind of encyclopedia: "The workers at the Karnataka Khadi Gramadyog Samyuktha Sangha in Hubli, Karnataka, take pride in creating the national flag." Iron Condor (talk) 03:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Size of the wheel
The article lead states that the wheel diameter is supposed to be three fourths the width of the white band. However, the depiction clearly is nothing like that -- it takes up almost all the white strip. Is this an error in the depiction or the text? Mike Christie (talk) 04:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to remove date-autoformatting
Dear fellow contributors

MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether a date is autoformatted or not). MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.

There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:

Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. Does anyone object if I remove it from the main text in a few days’ time on a trial basis? The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony  (talk)  11:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)