Talk:Flag of Mandatory Palestine

Recommending this page for permanent semi-protection
Given the continual vandalism of this page, I've recommended that it be placed under permanent semi-protection. Instead of constantly reverting the page back to an old state (which already prompted temporary protection for the page a year ago) please come here to discuss any issues you have with the page. Pfaupfaupfau (talk) 07:55, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Promote from stub to start class?
Not sure I should be the one making the change, since I've been strongly involved in editing the text that went into this article, but there may not be a whole lot more to say on the subject, so the article should probably be raised from stub to at least "start class"... AnonMoos (talk) 14:30, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * DoneDavshul (talk) 12:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Larousse dictionary
What about this flag from the Larousse dictionary?

http://pamelageller.com/2014/11/the-flag-of-palestine-before-1948.html/ -- 00:10, 16 November 2014 67.164.94.86‎


 * The flag in the Larouse dictionary is *not* a legal flag of the Mandate in Palestine, as can be seen in this link: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/mpe.html
 * The flag in the Larouse dictionary is probably a mistake, based on the flag flown by some Jewish-owned merchant ships in the 30s.
 * (as mentioned in the Hebrew Wiki article דגל עברי) Also, the mandate charter given here as a reference does not even mention the word "flag".
 * This edit should be reverted!
 * רונן אלטמן קידר (talk) 20:41, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

67.164.94.86‎ -- We already have that flag on Commons as Image:Flag of Palestine (1924).svg, but it certainly did not have any official status under the British Mandate. If you could tell us exactly what that flag was, and back it up with a reliable source, then maybe it could be included on the article page -- but not displacing Image:Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg... -- AnonMoos (talk) 22:14, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * This article is very confusing. It shows the blue and white flag with the star right at the top (twice, for some reason), and then the entire article talks about the British one instead, never explaining anything about the blue/white flag. I got here from the Palestinian flag article hoping for some explanation of this new flag that is popping up on wikipedia in the last few days (mid nov 2014), but instead there is nothing. Also is factualisrael.com the kind of source that should be cited on wikipedia? I doubt it but is there an established precedent? Is anyone listening or monitoring all this? 132.74.213.39 (talk) 16:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, User:Dalandau is trying to impose his will by edit-warring, despite the fact that what he added to the article is simply not useful in the form in which he added it. The blue-white-and-yellow flag did NOT have any "official" or "recognized" status under the  British Mandate, and to add it to the article, we would have to know what it is, and how it was used (other than being published in a French dictionary), backed up by reliable sources... AnonMoos (talk) 17:21, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Well then I suggest someone remove it or do something about it. If there were more explanations about the flag it might be interesting to put somewhere on wikipedia, but failing that it's just confusing. I got here after seeing a bunch of viral articles from partisan political sites (if you google "palestine flag israel" with results from the last week you'll see a bunch), and came here to get real information. Instead I just find a bunch of edits contemporaneous with, and links to, those same viral articles. 132.74.213.39 (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I am seeing a lot of accounts and IP addresses here that seem to exist solely to revert changes on this page. Can someone step in and sort this out? There's definitely no evidence of this blue-white flag being anything like an official flag of the Mandate of Palestine. Also the claim that the red ensign was somehow illegal is totally new to me and I can't see any evidence for this in the provided sources at all. Tibetan Pop Rocks (talk) 00:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Also the page from the 1934 dictionary that was just added here has incorrect flags for Persia, Syria, Venezuela, Vatican City, and Morocco. This is the source we're using? Come on. Tibetan Pop Rocks (talk) 00:53, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * (That was me as the most recent IP. I wasn't logged in.) Tibetan Pop Rocks (talk) 01:48, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Britain had no right to do many things they did, the mandate as you read it you see is for the establishment of the Jewish homeland, the Flag that was in use was the blue white yellow star flag. The British though used another one. They had no right to go against and as you can see from the French Larousse wich is an Encyclopedia the British flag was not recognized.

For more info if you which to understand the legality, here is a video.

The Legal Case for Israel Video by Professor Eugene Kontorovich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub2x5UvjUs4

Another great International Lawyer who investigated this subject for over 20 years is Dr. Jaques Gautier who concludes that not only is Israel in accordance with International law but that the International community is in direct violation of it’s own Agreements and Charters they have themselves formulated

Another great Attorney who came to the same conclusion is Howard Grief who wrote the book “The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law”

The Conclusion is all the same: the Jewish people have been betrayed many times over by the Nations of the world who do not abide by their own agreements that they have themselves formulated while continuing to do so and them being the reason behind many baseless wars where so many innocent live were lost

You can also read this 1947 testimony that speaks about many things that happened in Palestine mandated to the British

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/364A6AC0DC52ADA785256E8B00716662

Thank you Dalandau (talk) 03:06, 18 November 2014 (UTC)Dalandau (talk) 03:12, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Whatever -- this is not the place to debate the legality of the British mandate in general, and source documents go on Wikisource (http://en.wikisource.org ), not Wikipedia. More importantly, you haven't presented the slightest reliable evidence whatsoever that the blue-white-yellow flag was "in use" or "legal" or "official" (or anything other than published in a French dictionary).  You really need to learn a little more about how things are done on Wikipedia, because continued edit warring may result in your Wikipedia career coming to an abrupt end... AnonMoos (talk) 03:51, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah I'm sorry Dalandau but that's just a non-sequitur. Whatever its legality, Britain had a Mandate over Palestine, and the flags associated with that Mandate were the Union Jack and the red Palestine ensign. Whether you think Britain conducted itself well as a Mandatory power or lived up to its treaty obligations doesn't really have any effect on the legality of the flags it imposed. And as for the blue-white-yellow flag being the one in use, there's ample evidence that the prefered flag of the Jewish community was the one that we now call the flag of Israel. See:  3 4. If the flag with the yellow Star of David was the actual one, then where are the photos? Where is the evidence of its adoption? Why is it only found in a questionable eighty-year-old French flag chart? It just doesn't add up. Tibetan Pop Rocks (talk) 05:57, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Maybe this can help shed light on the situation: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%93%D7%92%D7%9C_%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99#mediaviewer/File:Emanuel_ship%27s_Hebrew_flag.svg This image, which is similiar to the Larouse flag, was used by a Jewish-owned shipping company from Yaffo in the 30s, and might have been the cause of the mistake in Larouse. The specifics are discussed in the Hebrew Wiki article דגל עברי. רונן אלטמן קידר (talk) 07:51, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks Ronen, that clarifies things. This page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_with_the_Star_of_David also has the same LaRousse flag labeled as "Flag of Palestine (1924)" but doesn't have the correct version that you've linked.132.74.208.221 (talk) 08:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * There's also this one from a 1924 Youth Conference that looks similar. -- 14:52, 18 November 2014 (UTC) Tibetan Pop Rocks

רונן אלטמן קידר -- A more direct link to that image is File:Emanuel ship's Hebrew flag.svg, but it only has a somewhat vague resemblance to the mystery Larousse flag. Tibetan Pop Rocks -- That flag is much closer match in terms of visual appearance and original date, but it was pretty certainly never an official governmental flag of anything, and would not seem to be eligible for inclusion in this article... AnonMoos (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah definitely. I wonder if it would be worth expanding the page at all to talk about the some of the flags that were actually used by the Jewish and Arab communities during the mandate period? Tibetan Pop Rocks (talk) 16:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * If the quasi-official community representative bodies (the Arab Higher Committee and the Jewish Agency) had official flags, then they probably could be included on this page, but I doubt that they did. Arabs tended to unofficially use the 1917 Arab revolt flag, or variations of it -- which were then general Arab nationalist symbols, not specifically Palestinian (which is how the same flag ended up as both the modern Palestinian flag and the flag of the Ba`th party)... AnonMoos (talk) 04:15, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

2023
This flag is *not* a mistake, as it was featured along side the British flag in the Anglo-Palestine Exhibition of 1933. As seen here: https://files.kedem-auctions.com/files/Ol14-public/28_1.jpg It needs to be added to multiple wikipedia articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NukeSlywalker (talk • contribs) 21:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Answered below. Zerotalk 05:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)


 * its not. its found at the Anglo-Palestine exhibition in London, 1933
 * https://files.kedem-auctions.com/files/Ol14-public/28_1.jpg
 * It likely needs to be added to multiple wikipedia articles. This discussion has not been well researched. This could easily be the Jewish flag referenced in the mandate minutes. NukeSlywalker (talk) 21:32, 20 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Usual practice is to make talk page comments once, not multiple times scattered over the page. I never thought Larousse invented the flag themselves, but we still don't know who invented it and when. What we do know is that it was not an official flag of Palestine, because there wasn't any. Now we know that it was used at least for advertising for the Anglo-Palestine Exhibition in London 1933. From this video by an expert on Zionist exhibitions, around 15:40, we learn that the Anglo-Palestine Exhibition was a joint venture of the Jewish National Fund and the מסחר ותעשיה (Mischar v'Taasia = Trade & Industry) Publishing & Exhibition Company, with the patronage of the UK government. There was a "Palestine Committee" chaired by Menachem Ussishkin, and a "London Committee" chaired by Rufus Isaacs. The flag is a Zionist flag, not the flag of Palestine. There is a different Zionist flag during the mandate period around 26:00 on the video. Zerotalk 03:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Two problems here - the first one being that the flag in your poster is not the same flag as the Larousse one, it is just a rather similar design like there were many back then. The second issue is that the flag is not considered reliable in any way, shape, or form, and the flag file itself features a section clearly stating that the flag should, under no circumstances, be embedded into Wikipedia articles. As long as there is no proof of historical usage or legitimacy this flag should clearly not be featured in the article - or anywhere else on Wikipedia for that matter. HolonZeias (talk) 20:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

questionable heading
"The Most Relevant Parts of The Mandate of Palestine that the British Violated"

What does this have to do with an article on a flag? I am not sure how such a heading relates to anything. Further, how does the text of the mandate relate to an article on a flag? I am guessing that it was a political statement of some sort. Even if it were relevant, it would need explanation as to how the British violated the mandate. For now, I am going to let those who have been involved with this page to offer explanations and / or make revisisions. I assume that I am missing something.Dstern1 (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Same answer for you as for 132.74.213.39 on 17:21, 17 November 2014 (see above). AnonMoos (talk) 10:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Full protection


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Modifications to a fully protected page can be proposed on its talk page (or at another appropriate forum) for discussion. Administrators can make changes to the protected article reflecting consensus. Placing the template on the talk page will draw the attention of administrators for implementing uncontroversial changes. Thanks.  Wifione  Message 03:00, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Flag of the High Commissioner
I commented out the "Flag of the High Commissioner" for having no source. There was an attempt to create such a flag for use on a launch when the HC was present, but for whether it was actually created and what it looked like we need evidence. There is a very long file in the Israeli National Archives on this subject. Be warned that the items in the file are not in chronological order but sometimes go forwards in time and sometimes backwards. That plus difficult handwriting makes it a chore to decode. Zerotalk 12:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Larousse flag, ten years later
The whole "Jewish flags in Mandatory Palestine" section seems to be quite a lot to take in without any source given, as it's basing most of it on the unsourced 1924 "Larousse Palestine Flag" like already mentioned on this talk page almost a decade ago. In this day and age it should be preferable to not just add unsourced flags of any type, especially given the contentious topic. The whole topic needs a rewrite in any case. I will be removing the "purported flag" in the meantime, as, again, no reliable source has ever been given, other than a faulty flag chart. --HolonZeias (talk) 09:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * the timing seems quite disingenuous. You wait until a propaganda war to realize you need to update and remove these kind of old Jewish traces? Everyone is quite aware of what you are doing here.  maybe you should go ahead, for the sake of integrity, recuse yourself due to bias and revert the edit. It makes you look so bad. There's timestamp everywhere and this hurts the cause you'll probably deny being a part of. Thanks for erasing the Jewish section, and giving everyone the proof of what we knew was happening. 136.50.176.40 (talk) 00:55, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * What a lot of nonsense. The Larousse flag should have been removed as unreliably sourced long ago. Zerotalk 08:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * It was removed a number of times long ago (see previous talk), not so much because of unreliable sourcing, as because no one could say what status it had, other than being published in a French dictionary. It was certainly not an official British mandate flag. AnonMoos (talk) 21:16, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Who knew that current events might lead to more eyes taking look at more obscure articles and put erroneous sections under scrutiny. HolonZeias (talk) 14:02, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * its actually a real flag that was used for Palestine. It was featured along side the British flag in the Anglo-Palestine Exhibition of 1933. As seen here: https://files.kedem-auctions.com/files/Ol14-public/28_1.jpg
 * It needs to be added to multiple wikipedia articles. NukeSlywalker (talk) 21:38, 20 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The flag in that image is not at all the same as the Larousse dictionary flag. It's divided in two horizontal halves, not vertical, and the star of David is "counterchanged", not yellow. AnonMoos (talk) 01:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have recreated the flag depicted in the poster and uploaded it. Unofficial Jewish Palestine Flag 1933.svg LivLovisa (talk) 10:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * However, there is no evidence that it was used in Palestine, nor is there evidence it was considered the "flag of Mandatory Palestine" rather than (for example) the "flag of the Jewish community in Palestine". Zerotalk 11:32, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but can’t the same thing be said about the Arab flag displayed in the article? LivLovisa (talk) 17:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

LivLovisa -- The Flag of the Arab Revolt definitely had some use among Arabs, and File:Jaffa Alhambra Cinema03562ucroped.jpg is photographic evidence of a variation of the Arab Revolt flag in use in 1937. If you could present evidence of a flag in actual use among the Jews of the British Mandate (not just a visual design published in the UK or France), then that could certainly be included. AnonMoos (talk) 18:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * If photographic evidence is needed rather than a description, there’s the one photographed being used by Palestinian Jews aboard the Emanuel in 1934, as mentioned in the article already. https://archive.org/details/hhbooker2_yahoo_001_20161017/234I0373.JPG LivLovisa (talk) 18:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily photographs, but evidence that it was used by Jews in Palestine. AnonMoos (talk) 21:14, 8 January 2024 (UTC)