Talk:Flag of Scotland/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Familiae Watt§ (talk) 02:27, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Quick fail criteria assessment
Reviewing the article against the "quick-fail criteria".


 * 1) The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.
 * - the article seems well sourced with a wide array of reference material.
 * 1) The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
 * - no obvious NPOV tone to article.
 * 1) There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.
 * - no tags on page.
 * 1) The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.
 * - no edit warring over article.
 * 1) The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.
 * - scope of article clear.

Article meets standards set out in the "quick-fail criteria", with no obvious issues or problems evident. Full review to follow. Familiae Watt§ (talk) 02:27, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Potential issues to be addressed
(The issues raised below can be addressed concurrently as I conduct the main review of the article, but need to be resolved before the article can be passed)


 * The Flag of Scotland, also known as the Saint Andrew's Cross or more commonly The Saltire, is the national flag  of Scotland.
 * Whilst I doubt there is no problem in labelling this the "Flag of Scotland", I do not know if it can be classified as a "national flag" given that Scotland is not a nation state. I see that Scotland is classified on Wikipedia as a "country" but that is not the same as a nation. The lead is otherwise good.


 * When incorporated as part of the Union Flag during the C17th...
 * It is better to write out centuries, ie: 17th century. I have changed these abbreviations where I have noted them.


 * Throughout the night before the battle, Óengus prayed to God for victory on the field, and vowed that if victorious he would make Saint Andrew the Patron Saint of Scotland, (a position akin to that then held by St Columba). On the morning of the battle, white clouds forming an X shape in the sky were seen by both armies. The Picts and Scots were heartened by this, however the Angles regarded the phenomenon with some trepidation. Emboldened by this apparent divine intervention, Óengus took to the field and the Angles, despite having a superior force in terms of numbers, were defeated.
 * I think this needs to be reworked to reflect a more academic tone (or standpoint). But I will come back to it later.


 * Immediately prior to, and following, the controversial merger in March 2006...
 * There is no reference cited to substantiate the claim that the merger was "controversial". Familiae Watt§ (talk) 03:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * In heraldic language, it may be blazoned Azure, a saltire argent. The tincture of the Saltire can appear as either silver (Argent) or white, however the term Azure does not refer to a particular shade of blue.
 * Not sure that there needs to be italicisation in this sentence; I don't see the words italicised in the reference. What is the reasoning behind this? Indeed, there seems to be excessive italicising going on in this article, which does not qualify according to WP:MOSTEXT.


 * There is also a large amount of wiki-linking going on; some terms should be unlinked. Terms like "cross", "crucified", "maritime", etc., do not need to be linked. See WP:OVERLINK Familiae Watt§ (talk) 04:23, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The recruitment campaign employed the Saltire in the form of a logo; the words "SCOTTISH INFANTRY. FORWARD AS ONE." being placed next to a stylised image of the Saltire. For the duration of the campaign, this logo was used in conjunction with the traditional Army recruiting logo; the words "ARMY. BE THE BEST."
 * Using all-capitals is not a good idea, and should be changed. See WP:ALLCAPS.

The above are the main concerns pertaining to style and format regarding WP:GA criteria. The main review will follow. Familiae Watt§ (talk) 04:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Main review assessment

 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose):
 * (Lead) Use of a simplified symbol associated with Saint Andrew which does not depict his image, namely the saltire, or crux decussata, (from the Latin crux, 'cross', and decussis, 'having the shape of the Roman numeral X'), has its origins in the late 14th century; it being decreed by the Parliament of Scotland in 1385 that Scottish soldiers wear a white Saint Andrew's Cross on their person, both in front and behind, for the purpose of identification.
 * Text does not flow as the sentence clauses are not integrated properly. Suggested alteration:
 * Use of a simplified symbol associated with Saint Andrew which does not depict his image, namely the saltire, or crux decussata, (from the Latin crux, 'cross', and decussis, 'having the shape of the Roman numeral X'), has its origins in the late 14th century; the Parliament of Scotland decreed in 1385 that Scottish soldiers wear a white Saint Andrew's Cross on their person, both in front and behind, for the purpose of identification.
 * b (MoS):
 * See above issues.
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references):
 * Well referenced.
 * b (citations to reliable sources):
 * I see you have already gone through an extensive vetting of sources from the first GA review, so they appear fine to me
 * c (OR):
 * No evidence of OR
 * 1) It is broad in its scope.
 * a (major aspects):
 * Thorough
 * b (focused):
 * Remains focussed
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail: Pass - Congratulations. ✽  Familiae Watt§   (TALK)  13:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail: Pass - Congratulations. ✽  Familiae Watt§   (TALK)  13:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail: Pass - Congratulations. ✽  Familiae Watt§   (TALK)  13:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass/Fail: Pass - Congratulations. ✽  Familiae Watt§   (TALK)  13:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for input re. all of the above. Changes now made which I hope address your points. Re. "National Flag", I'll defer to WP:RS...NMS: "The flag is the Saltire, the national flag of Scotland", UK Parliament: "The national flag of Scotland is the cross saltire of Saint Andrew (also known as the Saltire)"...there are others but I'll include the UK Parliament ref in the article. The italics are indeed excessive and I have removed the bulk of them, although in heraldry tinctures appear in italics therefore they remain. Hope it now meets the GA criteria. Regards and thanks again. Endrick   Shellycoat  11:26, 10 February 2010 (UTC)