Talk:Flagging dance

Removed
Today, flaggers can be found in a variety of christian groups including charismatics and pentecostals churches. Two different types of flags are generally used each giving a different type of flagging. The first type uses poles or rods longer than the material allowing the flag to rotate around the pole. The second type, has material covering the entire pole and encourages more dancing from the flagger. Flaggers will wave one or two flags to music while in a spiritual rapture. They will be used for different spiritual activities, most often worship but also intersession or spiritual warfare. Each set of flag (usually 2) is unique and often named by the user or maker, the fabric, colour, and size of the flag will often determine its use. I've removed this as it's unsourced, poorly written and possible untrue. Pentecostal folks are known for various things including dancing with snakes but flag dancing for spiritual warfare seems dubious without sourcing. -- Banj e b oi   10:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for Review/Removal
I would like to get some input from a senior editor on how to completely redo this article. There is little fact and way too much esoteric rhetoric. Comments like the following are self-defining and serve better to obfuscate than to clarify. This example begs the question, "could 'Flagging Dance' have existed before the first 'Flags' created?" The origins of flag dancing are said to reach as far back as the development of the earliest flags

Not only do I have issue with the content, but also with the title. I have been fan-dancing for 20 years and I have made hundreds of pairs of rag-fans and a dozen or so pairs of spines (neither of which are discussed to any length in this article). The thing that remains consistent is that they are fans not flags. There is a brief mention that this subject should not be confused with color guard, which uses FLAGS, not FANS, but no mention of the long-standing argument in the "FANNING" community about the use of the term "FLAG-DANCING/DANCER" as a homophobic substitute for the original term "FAN-DANCING/DANCER". It seems like a simple issue: Flags require poles, fans do not, but some people find it offensive to be associated with the traditional association of Fan Dancing.

The entire argument rages on in the following article: http://www.themusicliveson.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560]
 * Having lived through this in London circa 1982-86 the first Fan Dancers or Fan Dancing (correct term) performed in the UK was at Heaven (nightclub) upstairs in the Star Bar where gay guys would dance with wooden spine fans either covered both sides with colourful fabric or sometimes just one side the spines were painted usually in bright colours sometimes dayglo affects as they used a lot of Ultraviolet lighting then they were not called flag dancers and it was not called flagging dance.--Navops47 (talk) 19:05, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Help with Adding Content
I am not sure how to add some important content as listed below. I need to get the details worked out obviously, but once I do, how do I go about formatting the information below so that it is not a personal account? What kinds of references do I need? I have looked through the wiki instructions and references, but I was hoping to get some help directly on this subject.

At some point in the early 90's a prominent AIDS organization in New York hired a woman named Candida Scot Piel to be the cultural liaison between the gay community and the project. She was charged with the duty of ensuring that no part of Gay culture would be allowed to be obliterated by AIDS. She was a "master-fanner" who, upon recognizing that "fanning" was an exclusively gay art in the club scene, and upon noticing that fans had completely disappeared from the club scene with the onset of AIDS, set about reviving the spirit of "fan dancing" in the clubs and in private parties. She taught me and several of my friends and is responsible for revival of interest in fan dancing. I have personally taught dozens of people to fan and I gladly teach anyone how to make them, how to spin them, how to celebrate the spirit of fans....but most importantly the message behind them: That no part of gay culture shall be obliterated by AIDS.

Some mention should also be made about the controversy concerning the availability of "commercial fans" or the presence of "dance troups" that charge for fanning. One camp believes that fans should be hand-made by individuals for individuals--that the magic of the fan is mitigated by mass production. This camp also feels that your first set of fans should be made for you by someone who fans and the first set should usually be solid white (it aids in practicing) and made of Chinese silk (due to its sturdy nature and the dynamics of the material). While the other camp, does not subscribe to the same rhetoric.

Some discussion of the making of fans needs to be included.

Some discussion of the various methods of fanning and the variations of fanning should be included.

Clarification Needed
Fan Dancing article should be a clarification wiki that separates "Gay Fan Dancing" and "Traditional Fan Dancing" because they are related, but dissimilar topics.

Proposed Article Format
I have included an outline below that would better serve this article and I do not know how to go about this project, so I am asking for help here.


 * I. Gay Fan Dancing
 * A. Definition
 * B. Spine Fans
 * C. Rag Fans
 * D. Fanning Community
 * E. Fanning Troups
 * F. Master Fanners
 * G. Old School Fanning
 * II. Historical Perspective
 * A. Post WW2 Leather Scene
 * B. Disco Era Expansion
 * C. AIDS Era Disappearance
 * D. Early 90's Revival
 * E. Subsequent Commercialization
 * III. Important Milestones
 * A. WW2 introduction in Gay Leather Scene
 * B. Expansion to House/Disco clubs
 * C. AIDS pandemic
 * D. Cultural Liaison Office created
 * E. First Commercially Available Fans
 * F. Fanning Troupes
 * IV. Fanning Experience
 * A. Where Fandancing Happens
 * B. Controversial Issues on Dancefloor
 * C. Tributes
 * D. Performances
 * F. Choreographed Performances
 * V. Types of Fans
 * A. Spine Fans - original
 * 1.introduction
 * 2.construction
 * 3.controversy
 * B. Rag Fans
 * 1.introduction
 * 2.construction
 * 3.controversy
 * C. "spin offs"
 * 1. glowsticks
 * 2. lights
 * D. Related
 * 1. poi-balls
 * 2. fire chains
 * 3. colorGuard
 * VI. Care and Handling
 * A. Reinforced Construction
 * B. Storage
 * C. Sharing
 * D. Spinning
 * E. Obstacles
 * VII. Fanning "holds"
 * A. Rags- Fast Hold
 * B. Spines - Fast Hold Forward
 * C. Rags- Slow Hold
 * D. Spines - Slow Hold Reverse
 * VIII. Fanning Moves
 * A. Forward Spinning
 * B. Reverse Spinning
 * C. Figure 8
 * D. Transitions
 * E. Circle Method
 * F. Circle Bounce Method
 * G. Parallel Movement
 * H. One-Handed
 * IX. Fanning Codes of Conduct
 * A. Where to Fan
 * B. When to Fan
 * C. When to Share
 * D. How to Share
 * E. Your First Fans
 * F. Message to Convey
 * H. Manners

I will gladly write the pieces and feel that Wikipedia is the best place to have this article published. I just want to be sure to follow the rules (unlike the current article) and I would like some guidance if possible. For example, I know it is inappropriate to contain personal references or accounts, like I mention above, so how do I go about imparting the knowledge that I have learned personally without a reference? This could well be the first documentation in literal form of a cultural phenomenon (which may be a violation of the rules). Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your input...-jase (talk) 21:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * See Fan dance for starters. I think much of this proposal could be used to build up that article first and I suggest you (i) be more concise, (ii) avoid entering information that isn't readily and reliably sourcible and (iii) go at it in steps. We represent a worldwide view so even if everything that happened in NYC is perfectly accurate it doesn't mean it was the only thing happening. Additionally we are not a how-to guide so telling folks how to hold is not helpful whereas a simple sentence explaining there are various ways to hold a fan depending on the user and purpose may be all that's needed. -- Banj e  b oi   22:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)