Talk:Flaming chalice

untitled
Note: this article originated as a section in the article "Unitarian Universalism". Gwimpey 23:26, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Reorganizing article
History portions of this article have been brought together with the goal of improving clarity. I have tried to show the evolution from Deutsch's printed logo, to useages such a jewelry, to eventual use of 3-D flaming chalice in worship services. However, the chronology of this evolution is obscure at best, e.g., there is no generally accepted date when a flaming chalice was first lit as part of a worship service. (The chronological detail about Betty King comes from her husband Don King writing in the Sept. 12, 1976, of the church newsletter of Geneva, Ill., which may or may not be reliable.) Pending further research in primary docs., or further articles in the UU Historical Society journal, this is the best I can do right now. Perhaps others can contribute here.

Bringing together the portions devoted to history required an overall reorganization of the article. As part of this overall organization, I tried to clean up minor details, e.g. substituting the word "congregation" for "church," when a local religious society is meant. I tried to remove POV or opinions, e.g. the old article referred to "one common interpretation" after essentially asserting there is no common interpretation (removing the word "common" was the fix). Further editing for clarity is needed.

The inclusion of allegedly representative chalice lighting readings remains problematic to me. After having served in 6 different local UU congregations, I have never heard these readings used. What's the documentation that says these are widely used? If none, let's just remove these -- I don't believe they contribute much to the article.

02:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)Dan Harper danrharperATaolDOTcom


 * I agree with you that these seem to be placed for mostly personal reasons and don't add much to the understanding of the article. I am removing them. --Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

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Trying to Remove UU (American) centred-ness
I've made some edits to remove the US-centric nature of the article. I think this needs to be extended, although I only know a little about its usage in the UK. Angelamaher (talk) 17:10, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been hearing lately that there's actually Unitarian Universalism in Transylvania, as well. I've no clue how they practice things over there, though. --76.89.173.117 (talk) 19:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Unitarianism there, not UU. The flaming chalice is not the logo. See Unitarian Church of Transylvania.--Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Chalice-lighting readings
The examples of chalice-lighting texts to me seem long and placed for mostly personal reasons. Most of the American UU churches I have attended do not use a ritual script for that part of their worship liturgy. It also seems to me to be more appropriate to an article about UU worship or UU liturgy than to an article about the chalice as a symbol and icon. I'd like to see this section pared down. Thoughts? --Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * "Pared down" is not the same as deleted completely. Contrary to you, I thought it was usual practice to have a ritual chalice lighting reading. I agree we don't need so many examples. If we can find a good page listing several (on the UUA site, perhaps), it would be reasonable to make reference to it. Lady  of  Shalott  16:28, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You'll see above there was a call to remove it three years ago. It's definitely customary in UU religious services to have a chalice lighting, and to have some sort of invocation to accompany it; in my experience it's not so much so to use the same text or texts ritually for this purpose. --Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Campfire song
Is this appropriate? One, it's modification of a song from another faith tradition; two, it's been given extensive and prominent placement in this article; and three, are all the lyrics to a repetitive song really contributing anything to an encyclopedia article about the flaming chalice symbol? I propose to delete this section entirely. Thoughts? --Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It does not seem a particularly important portion of the article to me. Lady  of  Shalott  16:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Would you object to its removal? --Cantabwarrior (talk) 15:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I would not. Lady  of  Shalott  17:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Hussite emblem of same name
Other pages (namely pavise) refer to the use of a symbol of the same name by the Hussite religious and political movement. Of course, no information on such a thing is present here, as they are distinct concepts. For this reason, if there's not enough information for a proper article and a disambig, would it be out of line for someone more knowledgeable than I to at least slap an "other symbols" section, or at least a footnote, onto this one? 2600:6C4E:880:3B9:0:621:1C25:587B (talk) 16:43, 26 March 2018 (UTC)