Talk:Flashing Lights (Kanye West song)/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Nominator:

Reviewer: Z1720 (talk · contribs) 01:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Setting up review. Comments will be below:


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Prose comments:
 * The lede is quite long. I think this should be trimmed to three paragraphs. Some ideas on what to remove or change to make it shorter:
 * "The song features a guest appearance" -> It features
 * "and contains additional vocals from" delete contains
 * kept as the song per this being the first sentence after the introduction on the album --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ""Flashing Lights" received generally strong reviews" -> The song received generally favourable reviews
 * title can be here per it being the first sentence of new para --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "The official music video for "Flashing Lights" was debuted on February 10, 2008, which stars Rita G." -> "The music video for "Flashing Lights" debuted on February 10, 2008, and stars Rita G."
 * "It utilizes slow motion and was shot in a Nevada desert," I think this is too much detail for the lede.
 * "The first one recorded is set in a haunted house where West is thrown out of a window, while the second video follows Charlotte Carter-Allen becoming overwhelmed with New York City." I don't think these are needed for the lede.
 * "He also delivered performances of it at both the Coachella and Splendour festivals in 2011." -> "He also performed it at the Coachella and Splendour festivals in 2011."
 * ✅ for the above --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ""Flashing Lights" was included in The Beat 102.7 radio station of the video game Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)." Why is this media mentioned, but not its other uses? I think this is too much detail for the lede.
 * for the entire popular culture section, there should be something to mention in the lead and this is suitable since it did receive coverage as to the appearance on the radio station – similar to other points, this part was not noted as it would have gone into too much detail. --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "The song was covered by Kids These Days in June 2012, with member Vic Mensa adding new lyrics. Lorde performed a cover version at a concert in Philadelphia on her Pure Heroine Tour in September 2014, combining alt-rock, pop, and hip hop." -> "The song has been covered by Kids These Days in June 2012 and Lorde in September 2014." Everything else can be talked about in the article.
 * "The performance received positive reviews from critics, who highlighted her creativity." This can be deleted so the lede can stay focused on West's version.
 * still kept the positive reviews part, but removed why it was praised from here. --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "while the musician later featured on "Flashing Lights"" I don't think this is needed here. The musician's feature on the song should be talked about later in the article.
 * "Hudson felt great about the collaboration and joked that he wants to make 10 more songs like it, while he had completed the beat when he played it to West, who added a live string section with him over the synth strings during the recording in 2007." This is phrased awkwardly. I think everything after "while" needs to be reviewed.
 * "mentioning that people also asked him for "the 'Flashing Lights' feel" as he tried to avoid:" -> "who asked him for "the 'Flashing Lights' feel", which he tried to avoid:"
 * "McDonald imagined West was thinking as if he's "taking a meeting set up by two white boys"" This phrasing is awkward and I'm not sure what it is trying to say.
 * "yet her vocals made the cut" -> "yet her vocals were included in the track" to avoid an idiom
 * ""Flashing Lights" marked West's first instance" Suggest starting a new paragraph here
 * "as he later did on numerous occasions, including "Highlights" from his album The Life of Pablo in 2016" Delete this, as it is getting off topic. Perhaps replace with "and he continued using the word in future song titles."
 * ✅ for the above --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "Accompanying artwork for the album's other singles was also created by Murakami, alongside him overseeing the art direction of Graduation." This is off topic and can be deleted.
 * shouldn't this be included for background as to why he was involved with the cover art? --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "Musically," delete.
 * ❌ used to introduce talking about genres --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "West first unveiled the track during" delete first
 * The second two paragraphs of "Release and reception" follow the "X says Y" sentence structure. I suggest reading WP:RECEPTION for ideas on how to avoid this pattern.
 * ✅ for the above --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "jharv wrote that he felt more comfortable with the disco style" Who is jharv and why is this a reliable source?
 * this is a list from Idolator, considered a reliable source so that justifies the inclusion. --K. Peake 12:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Suggest splitting the first paragraph of "Official music video" into two
 * "noting his Glow in the Dark Tour collaborator Sam i did "a remix 2 the scary one 2 make [sic] the music fit"" awkward phrasing
 * "Prior to release as a single, "Flashing Lights" reached number 12 on the US Billboard Bubbling Under Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart." If this happened chronologically before the first paragraph of this section, then it should go before that paragraph.
 * "After providing a surprise appearance at a concert held by Kid Sister at the American Museum of Natural History on January 25, 2008, West remained onstage to perform "Can't Tell Me Nothing," "Good Life" and "Flashing Lights"." -> "West was a surprise appearance at a concert held by Kid Sister on January 25, 2008, where he performed "Can't Tell Me Nothing," "Good Life" and "Flashing Lights"."
 * ✅ for the above --K. Peake 12:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "West was accompanied by blue lights and during the second verse, he playfully courted a woman sitting in the front row, holding her hand while reciting the lyrics." This is too much detail and can be deleted.
 * only kept the lights --K. Peake 12:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "where he co-headlined the festival with Nine Inch Nails." delete, too much detail.
 * "and was taken aback by the transition from his 2010 single "Runaway"." too much detail, delete.
 * "Devin of Rap-Up considered after R. Kelly's call for accountability that "he should take his own advice"." Who is the he: R Kelly or West?
 * ✅ for the above --K. Peake 12:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

That is the whole article. I will reread when the above are addressed. I'll conduct a source review after the prose is set.
 * Thank you for conducting this review - I will respond to all the points and any uncertain, these will have comments left by me. --K. Peake 08:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Image review:
 * Images and media are licenced
 * The only image of West in the article is blurry and hard to see. I suggest additional images of West during this time, perhaps of his performances or similar connections to the article
 * The Lorde image uses px. Per WP:UPRIGHT, this should be replaced with upright.
 * ✅ --K. Peake 12:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Alt text already added. Captions fine.

Those are my thoughts. I'll place this on hold. Please ping me when ready for more comments. Z1720 (talk) 02:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I am ready, what else needs to be done here please? --K. Peake 14:30, 21 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Re: "Flashing Lights" was included in The Beat 102.7 radio station of the video game Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)." The article doesn't go into much detail about this, and I am confused about why this is highlighted over others. I read your comment about how sources covered this in detail, but the article does not and that is what I am using for my opinion of its inclusion in this section. I think a better phrasing might be ""Flashing Lights" has been used in various commercials, video games, and movies." or something similar.
 * "which he tried to avoid: "While that was a huge hit I don't want to over saturate and duplicate any sound I produce to put myself in a box."" I would summarise the quote, so the sentence would read "which he tried to avoid as he did not want to duplicate his work on the song and become synonymous with a particular musical sound." or something similar. While quotes are interesting to authors, most readers just want the information summarised
 * "McDonald imagined West thought he was accepting an introduction "set up by two white boys" and " This is speculation by McDonald and I don't think it should be in the article.
 * The second and third paragraphs of "Release and reception", follow a pattern of stating the reviewer, then what they thought about the song. WP:RECEPTION has some excellent advice on how to avoid this pattern by grouping critiques by theme and reducing the number of times a critic is introduced in the reception.
 * "Model Rita G recalled to MTV News that she was contacted to collaborate by West," -> "Model Rita G stated that she was contacted to collaborate by West," The reader doesn't have to know that she told this information to MTV News
 * First paragraph of the music video's "Reception and legacy" section also follows the "X said Y" pattern.
 * "The next week, the song yielded a single space and moved down to number 62." This is saying the same thing twice, suggest removing the first half or the second and perhaps merging with the subsequent sentence.

Source review later. Z1720 (talk) 02:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I have worked all of these in, specifically regarding reception is this looking better? K. Peake 19:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The reception section has done better in stating what critics have highlighted. However, there are still many "X said Y" statements. The reader doesn't need the specific quotes from every reviewer on a topic, as the reader can click on the footnote if they want to read the review. For example, the article could state "Many reviewers commended the production of the song, highlighting the synths in their positive critiques." with multiple citations afterwards. This would reduce the number of words in the reception section, making it more likely for a reader to read your comments. It is not necessary to have every review get their own sentence in the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I have edited this down now, summarizing most of the reviews focused on the synths with a note, however I've left things like mentioning its significance to hip hop in prose because that was a few reviewers and it would be too regimented to put almost every review theme into different notes of the article. --K. Peake 13:19, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Any updates on this after chopping down reception and working in other points? --K. Peake 07:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in the review.

Prose: The "reception" section for "Release and reception" still has the "X says Y" pattern, but I'm not going to let this prevent it from getting GA status. If you are looking to nominate this at FA, this will need to be fixed by removing the quotes and the reviewers names, and instead the text could say something like "Many reviewers positively commented on the use of synths." with multiple inline citations afterwards.

Source review: pass. Version reviewed.


 * Sources checked: 2, 4, 9, 14, 17, 19, 20, 26, 42, 46, 57, 61, 118, 144. No concerns.
 * Earwig detects no concerns.
 * No concerns with source formatting

Overall, this is a pass. Great work. Z1720 (talk) 19:18, 30 March 2024 (UTC)