Talk:Flavored fortified wine

NPOV
This part of the article: In contrast to table wine, which may be enjoyed as an accompaniment to a meal, or high-end fortified wine, enjoyed as an aperitif or digestif, low-end fortified wines are generally considered suitable only for intoxication. Note that its classification as "wine" is a very loosely used term, and many people refer to it as "hooch", "street wine", "fortified wine", "bum wine", or "twist-cap wine".

is very POV. I see no citations that these cheap wines are only considered suitable for intoxication. I am sipping some MD 20/20 13% alc. red wine, and it isn't *good*, but it isn't the worst wine I have tasted. It is wine though, of a sort. I will remove that paragraph if no one objects and can prove that it is only considered suitable for getting drunk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.5.152.115 (talk) 22:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Who in their right mind would serve "Mad Dog" to guests? It's a bum wine, end of story.50.111.44.55 (talk) 15:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, wine of "between 15 and 20%" alcohol content would have to pay added tax in the U.S.A. I would question whether this wine would be cheaper than the cheapest Canadian whiskey. Maybe even bad wine is more than an alcohol delivery system - that is, what exactly a person is addicted to may not be so simple.

Deletion
I vote to keep the article. "Bum wine" is a recognized term that contains fortified wines united by one thing: cheapness and potency. The article on fortified wine doesn't really cover it -- there's only one sentence, and it's really outside the scope of the article. Besides, can you imagine putting vermouth in the same class as Thunderbird? I agree that it's not a very good article -- I can expand it if need be. I would actually like to modify it to include other forms of alcohol popular among the homeless -- mouthwash springs to mind (along with its associated health problems). We could possibly make it an "Alcohol and the homeless" article. Graymornings 04:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That is something of a separate topic (and surely one worth writing on), but these cheap wines are not exclusively used by the homeless (college kids seem to like them too), and this article is really about the class of beverages itself. Cheers! bd2412  T 02:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Attribution note
Some content in the "Popular brands" section taken from the merged articles of Thunderbird, MD 20/20, Cisco (wine), Night Train Express, Wild Irish Rose and Ripple (wine). BD2412 has done a great job improving this article and having the merged content here under the main topic article will better serve the subject matter. I did not merged Buckfest Tonic wine because that has developed into a full fledge articles. If any of the other brands could be produced into an article of similar development then it would make sense to unmerged it. AgneCheese/Wine 19:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NightTrainExpressBottle.jpg
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BetacommandBot 21:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Ripple???
There is absolutely no information on this page showing that 'Ripple' ever actually existed outside of being a running joke (and a one-time prop) on the 70s sitcom 'Sanford and Son'. I don't think it actually existed. I can't find a single picture of a bottle (except for the S&S prop) anywhere. The 'bumwine' reference merely mentions the TV show. The other referenece is a dead link. I think this may be a TV joke turned Urban Legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.127.205 (talk) 03:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * From this article as well as a few others,

http://www.ghettowine.com/ripple/ I believe Ripple did have a real existence beyond Sanford and Son. When the maker Gallo died, the wine was also mentioned in the obits. Smiloid (talk) 06:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC) ¶I recall seeing a bottle of Ripple in the early 1970s. It was a small bottle, probably a fifth or a pint, with a lable that featured wavy lines rippling across the front of the bottle. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:16, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here. Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories, but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns, please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 06:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC) Ripple indeed was a wine. It was sold in the Seventies. If I recall, it was one of the first wines to be described as coming with a twist top. The bottle was green and it had wavy "ripples" on the sides of the glass. It was sweet, not very good, but it was cheap. The MD 20 20 mentioned in the article is also quite real also. It is quite a devastating drink, I have known bars that would not serve it straight. The reason? The bartender told me, "That s**t makes people crazy." It does. hepkess121.111.92.90 (talk) 07:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

deleted "popular among college students"
Whether or not the wine is popular among college students is not what makes it low-end. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Their inexpensiveness and less than quality reputation it what causes them to be considered low end. I therefor deleted the college student bit, because it was confusing and not true.68.9.133.244 (talk) 05:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

MD 20/20
MD 20/20 is presented and sold in the style of a "vodka", the bottle is not wine-like whatsoever, I know many people who think that after the liquor stores close that you can still get liquor in the form of "Mad Dog" from Albertsons. Of course, this should go against all reasoning on hard liquor laws, but alas. 4.255.55.13 (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

"Roadside brawls"
Deleted "or roadside brawls" from the end of the second sentence. Funny, but not verifiable or professional. I'm too lazy to fix anything else, but this article is not very good at the moment.Jermor (talk) 01:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Sterno
"sterno" is not a euphemism for fortified wine. When people refer to "drinking sterno" they really mean the pink gelled alcohol brand name "Sterno". My great-uncle was an, uh, "sterno enthusiast" 06:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brett Buck (talk • contribs)

Sneaky Pete?
On Jeopardy last week, I think Sneaky Pete was a response to a "cheap wine" question. Has anyone else heard this phrase in conjunction with cheap wine? Theresavalek (talk) 13:55, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Champion Jack Dupree mentions Sneaky Pete in his song, "Get Your Head Happy." (Blue Horizon, c. May 1967). He sings, "I can't buy no good whiskey, nothin' but Sneaky Pete." He then goes on to say that Sneaky Pete is comprised of all the wine that's leftover in the bottom of the barrel, which is then combined by pouring the remnants of several barrels into one larger barrel, which is subsequently sold at a discount. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluesunlimited (talk • contribs) 00:56, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

The reference is here: New York Times 1958 https://www.vox.com/2015/3/25/8284949/1950s-gang-slang

Problems with the name "Bum wine"
The same problem with the name "bum wine" that existed in 2007 are still present today--namely the lack of use in reliable sources--though I agree that the compromise solution name of "Low-end fortified wine" was not ideal. Over at the Wine Project page other concerns about the name have been brought up such as the intense US-centrism of the name and the fact that it presents the POV that only "bums" drink these kind of wines when, as other notes, people of various demographics (such as college students) often drink them as well. Obviously we need to come up with a different name. AgneCheese/Wine 16:50, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Update: After a year with no other suggestions or attempts to come up with a better name, I decided to be WP:BOLD and move the page to Flavored fortified wines which appears in some reliable sources to describe these styles of wine. I think this name avoid the WP:SLANG and WP:POV nature of "Bum wine" plus is a more WP:COMMONNAME and neutral than the previous compromise name of "low end fortified wine". AgneCheese/Wine 20:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I recall that in the late 1950s or early 1960s Thunderbird was advertised on TV with Cesar Romero and James Mason endorsing it. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

brands
The "brands" section has been tagged for a long time. It does not have many citations and most that are there are not Reliable Sources. There seems to be a lot of opinion there. The whole section is highly questionable and probably should go. Rlsheehan (talk) 21:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The list of some brands and manufacturers is a WP:LINKFARM. Wikipedia is not a commercial shopping list or a listing of qualified products.  See WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:NOT for guidance.  I have removed it.  Rlsheehan (talk) 01:51, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Totally disagree, as the brand referenced incorporate most of the "flavored fortified wines" output. Without this section, the article is bowdlerized and practically useless. Effort to add references should be made (and there are many available), rather than deleting nearly half the article. The Master ---)Vote Saxon(--- 22:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your opinion.  Wikipedia policy, however, requires independent neutral Reliable Sources for information.  This list does not have them.  Why should policy be ignored here?Rlsheehan (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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Substituted at 18:01, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

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Removed Category:Pejoratives
I removed Category:Pejoratives. Just because these are not highly regarded doesn't mean there's anything inherently derogatory about the very neutral descriptive term flavored fortified wine. If that's supposed to be a pejorative, what's the non-pejorative term? Bum wine, street wine, wino wine, etc. are pejoratives, but not flavored fortified wine. --Dan Harkless (talk) 12:14, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

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What?
"They are usually made of grape, fruit, and citrus" This is really confusing. I assume large scale production would need more than one grape. And there is no such item as "citrus". Is this supposed to be saying something like "grape, citrus, and other fruit juices"? Or "grapes, citrus fruits, and other fruits"?--Khajidha (talk) 13:45, 15 April 2021 (UTC)