Talk:Flaying

nasty propaganda
could somebody please remove the totally unbiased allegation of myanmar or else add this true statement: "the u.s.a. did not publish any photos of flayed terrorists in abu ghraib or quantanamo." Scyriacus (talk) 10:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Bartholomew
I can't say that's not a self-portrait in Michelangelo's "Last Judgement", but I would have presumed it to be St. Bartholomew. Any particular basis for saying he "portrayed himself..."? -- Jmabel
 * You are correct; see Bartholomew. Neutralitytalk
 * Indeed it is both two: it represents St. Bartholomew, but the painted face was the one of Michelangelo (of course no one could know the real face of the Saint). Filippo83 —Preceding undated comment added 23:28, 16 March 2010 (UTC).

Holocaust
"During the Holocaust, the Nazis would flay Jews and use the skin in lampshades." It wouldn't surprise me if such a thing occurred, but it seems to me that something like this should be cited. Also, unless there is a citation to suggest that such a practice was widespread (and note the implication through context that this would mean flaying alive), it probably should not be stated in a way that can be read as suggesting it was. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:08, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt this was done. (In fact, I remember seeing several examples in photographs years ago that apparently used in evidence at post-war trials of death camp personnel.) However, this article is about flaying as a method of execution. The occasional atrocity does not constitute "execution" -- which implies judgment being passed by a government official, right? --Michael K. Smith 01:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * After a bit of searching, I've found one piece of testimony from a respectable source about one such lampshade: A letter written by Georges P. Vanier after his 1945 visit to Buchenwald. Unfortunately, most of what I seem to be able to find about this is Holocaust Denial sites questioning the validity of that one particular artifact. I haven't found anything about more than that single artifact and I haven't found anything from what I would consider a trustworthy source saying that the one artifact is bogus. One of the less repugnant of the Holocaust denial sites says that General Lucius Clay later attested that it was goat skin. They cite "Interview with Lucius Clay, Official Proceeding of the George C. Marshall Research Foundation, cited in "Buchenwald: Legend and Reality," Mark Weber, The Journal of Historical Review, Vol. 7, no. 4. Journal of Historical Review is itself Holocaust denial stuff, and the citation of the interview with Clay is vague, so I would not call this solid refutation. (You can find the same article on The Nizkor Project, but apparently only because someone sent it to a mailing list, and it was archived.) The Holocaust Chronicle], clearly not Holocaust denial material, merely refers to "a lampshade allegedly made from human skin".

Unless someone can come up with something more solid than this by way of citation, I am inclined to just remove this. The specific allegation about Ilse Koch having one lampshade that might or might not have been made of human flesh would probably belong in the article on her, rather than here. And if we are going to have something here or there, it should be much more specific. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:31, September 2, 2005 (UTC)


 * BTW, I followed through on that Sept 3, but forgot to mention here on the talk page. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:24, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I saw videos shot by U.S. troops upon entering the holocaust camps of at least one lampshade. I'm inclined to believe that at least somewhere, some Nazi had the idea or something similar. -_-. Let me see if I can find the video. Phoenix Song (talk) 00:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You may be thinking of this video: http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/nazishrunkenheads/ 41.18.41.34 (talk) 00:16, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Death by a thousand cuts
Not sure why this item was removed. The Death by a Thousand Cuts article has links to photographs from 1905 of this form of execution being performed. Any further information on that? Were those anti-Chinese propaganda photos or something? Ignus 19:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I was not involved in that, but my best guess is that it was removed for a simple reason : it does not belong in flaying. Flaying is removal of the skin, the thousand cuts actually remove the flesh to bare the bone. So, even if whoever did it did do so out of ideological motives, they would have been right... of course, the material could be republished under its own article. Are you sure the photos were copyright free? It can be assumed that stuff dating from 1905 would be, but there is no guarantee of it. --Svartalf 23:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

"On the schismatic side"
"the Polish Jesuit Saint Andrew Bobola was burned, half strangled, partly flayed alive and killed by a sabre stroke by Cossacks on the schismatic side". Huh? - Jmabel | Talk 05:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The cause of death...?
This may sound like a stupid question, but if someone is flayed, what will he actually die from? (Or how long will he survive?) Blood loss? The incapacity of the skin to breathe? Just curious question. --Syzygy 14:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I also came here looking for an answer to that... I'd say it would be a massive infection, if the blood loss doesn't do it first.148.240.253.118 (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Electrolyte disturbance due to fluid loss or massive inflammation leading to anaphylaxis or heart failure would probably kill you first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.40.137.235 (talk) 22:43, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Examples
Is there any particular reason why Jesus is not included under examples of being flayed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix Song (talk • contribs) 00:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The particular reason would be that He wasn't flayed. ;-)  You're thinking of flagellation, I think, which is similar but different.  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 08:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to mention that flagellation really is just a method of flaying, just without the intentional care or focus on preserving the skin. any resultant holes left in the skin would still be called a 'flay' 119.18.27.69 (talk) 04:12, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Confusing phrasing
Could someone clarify this passage:
 * In medieval Britain the invasion of the sanctity of the church was classed as sacrilege and the original punishment was to be flayed alive (citation needed). The Subprior and the Sacrist of Westminster Abbey broke into the Chapel of the Pyx in 1303, the abbey muniment and treasury chamber, and stole from the contents. The Pyx chapel door has been found to have fragments of human skin attached to it as have the three doors to the revestry. Copford church in Essex, England has been found to have human skin attached.

Whose skin, the subprior and sacrist's? When was this discovered? How? Drutt (talk) 05:33, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

American Indians and Flaying
Among some tribes it is reported that being flayed alive was considered an honorable warriors death. Info please...Bigdatut (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:54, 9 May 2010 (UTC).

Clarification please?
Is it possible to completely skin a person while they are still alive, or will they die of blood loss or shock before then? If it is possible, was this what occurred in practice, or did historical flaying consist mainly of the removal of large portions (but not all) of the skin? How might a victim be restrained while the flaying took place? (In regards to the last question, it seems like the victims struggles might result in a reduction in the quality of the flayed skin--by tearing, ripping, etc.--if the flayer wished to keep it.)204.119.140.66 (talk) 16:32, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Deleted part St. Teodor
St. Teodor of Vršac, Serbian Orthodox Bishop of Vršac, was flayed alive in 1594 by the Ottomans, under order of Grand Vezier Sinan Pasha, for leading the Serbs in the Banat Uprising.

Wiki doesn't confirm flaying, but burning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodor_of_Vr%C5%A1ac

So I've deleted this part. (by the way: flaying was not a common method of punishing by the Ottomans). Chonanh (talk) 04:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Flaying. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070814062959/http://www.crucifixion.com/visual/theology/johndixon/terror.htm to http://www.crucifixion.com/visual/theology/johndixon/terror.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Flaying. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071211212501/http://fjtct.now.cn:7751/zjjxs.com/msfq/msfq/msfq-6.htm to http://fjtct.now.cn:7751/zjjxs.com/msfq/msfq/msfq-6.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:29, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Nat Turner
I inserted the note regarding the need for a citation. If one is not provided within a few days, I have located a reliable source that I believe will mostly suffice and will use it. Kind regards to all,Hu Nhu (talk) 20:39, 8 November 2020 (UTC)