Talk:Flight data recorder

Why do planes need FDR's
Why in 2011, isn't data that would normally be recorded by the FDR automatically and constantly transmitted by each plane to a Data Centre on the ground ? If you can make cell phone calls from a plane then the basics of the technology do exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.30.197.163 (talk) 12:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No. Yes. 75.95.47.110 (talk) 19:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for info
Hello! My name is Sergey Bondarenko. I am very interesting in air safety control especially flight data recorders! Actually I cannot find discription of any one! I am especially interesting in harware, main principal of operation. It would be very kind of you if you help me with it. Beforehand thankful. Oh by the way my e- mail is [removed - see below], if you have some information, please receive it there!


 * Sergey


 * 1) I have removed your e-mail address for your own protection (from people or bots which harvest such information in order to drown you in spam). Please do not leave it on this or any other publicly-accessible page on Wikipedia; it is Wikipedia policy not to send answers to private e-mail addresses.
 * 2) This page is for the sole purpose of discussing ways to improve the article. it is not for discussing the article's subject in general, or for requesting general information about it. Please repost any specific query on the appropriate Reference desk. 87.194.161.147 (talk) 11:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

History of FDR(Flight Data Recorder)
I think one of the first (maybe the first) FDR was an Finnish "Mata Hara" invented during early 40's.

Mata Hara. Martti Kujansuu

I'm interested to know about failure rates in FDR and CVRs (i.e. from excessive damage); I'm also interested in finding out how regularly the FDRs and CVRs are not found.


 * An english ref is here and a pic is available here.


 * The black box was built in 1942 by Veijo Hietanen to recover flight data of test aircraft even after fatal crashes. The box was built and used at State Aircraft Factory in Härmälä. It was called "Mata Hari" by the flight crew, as they suspected it was to monitor or score their performance.


 * The rights for Mata Hari were sold to France after World War II. Cheers, Rayshade (talk) 21:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Developer of the "black box" from University of Minnesota
James Ryan was born on November 27, 1903 in LeClaire, Iowa. In 1925 he received his B.S. in mechanical engineering from the University of Iowa, and in 1929, he received his M.S. in mechanical engineering from the University of Pittsburgh, doing his graduate work at Stanford University. Ryan came to the University of Minnesota as an assistant professor in mechanical engineering in 1931, being promoted to associate professor in 1940, and becoming a full professor in 1950.

Concerned about automobile safety, in 1949 Ryan began crashing cars into walls while his students observed, to complete his own testing in auto safety experiments. As a result, he invented the retractable seat belt, which he patented in 1963. Although nicknamed "Crash" Ryan, he was never injured in the experiments, and federal government researchers frequently consulted him on research. He also invented the flight data recorder, or "black box" patented in 1963, and now required on all commercial airlines. He conducted experiments under grants from the Office of Naval research, the Naval Medical Research Institute, the National Research Council, the United States Air Force, and the United States Public Health Service.

In 1963, Ryan retired because of a rheumatic heart condition. He passed away on May 31, 1973 at the age of 69. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.101.7.29 (talk) 19:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC).


 * As the article clearly states, Ryan did NOT "invent" the flight data recorder. The David Warren ARL one predated his by several years. Garth M 02:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The article is incorrect and need rewritten. Ryan produced a working flight recorder in 1951. It was widely used in the USA and fit was actually mandated in 1959. This may or may not have been the the first flight data recorder, it was certainly the first one to be widely used. Ken McNair —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.64.149.87 (talk) 17:20, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Hawker Siddeley Trident First?
I put a citation request on the Hawker being the first comment. I am updating the 1960 New York air disaster article and have a New York Times reference about the DC-8 in that crash having a flight recorder that was the first to be used. The hawker article says it made its maiden voyage in 1962. Americasroof 22:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The Trident is (or was) fairly widely known to be the first commercial airliner with a FDR as-standard. It's possible that other types may have had them fitted experimentally, but the FDR as we know it today was developed in the UK, as was the Trident.


 * As far as a 1960 crash is concerned, I'm pretty sure that no FDR existed at that time, they were only really introduced in the late 1960s/early 1970s.

Fair use rationale for Image:Fraser 1962 playback station.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Sear and boswell 1962 black box.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Fraser 1962 playback station.jpg
Image:Fraser 1962 playback station.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Finnish inventor
Actually, the inventor of the black box is Veijo Hietala. In 1940 in Härmälä. "Sillä itse asiassa musta laatikkko on suomalainen keksintö, jonka kehityskaaren jäljet johtavat Tampereelle, valtion lentokonetehtaalle. Siellä dipl. ins. Veijo Hietala lähti vuonna 1942 kehittämään laitetta, joka pystyisi lennon aikana taltioimaan useita lentokoneeseen vaikuttavia voimia ja lentäjän tekemiä toimenpiteitä.

Tampereella kehitelty laite oli koelentopiirturi, jota ryhdyttiin kutsumaan "Mata Hariksi" ensimmäisen maailmansodan kuuluisan naisvakoojan mukaisesti. Lentokoneisiin mustat laatikot alkoivat ilmestyä 1950-luvulla.

Sittemmin laite on tietysti paljon kehittynyt. Useimmissa lentokonetyypeissä musta laatikko sisältää lentopiirturin ja äänityslaitteen. Piirturi rekisteröi kellonajan, koneen lentonopeuden, lentokorkeuden ja kurssin. Suurimmissa konetyypeissä taltioidaan myös laskutelineiden ja peräsimen asento sekä moottoreiden toiminta onnettomuutta edeltäneiden 25 tunnin ajalta. Myös ohjaamon äänet rekisteröityvät. Varsinaiset laitteet (Flight Recorder ja Cockpit Voice Recorder) ovat nykyään oranssin värisiä löytämisen helpottamiseksi. Niitä kutsutaan yhä mustiksi laatikoiksi, sillä aikaisemmin ne olivatkin väriltään mustia.

Mustat laatikot kestävät yli tuhannen asteen kuumuutta. Pudotessaan mereen laatikko alkaa lähettää ultraäänisignaalia, jonka avulla se voidaan paikantaa 30 päivän ajan jopa kuuden kilometrin syvyydestä. " The quotation is from Turun Sanomat. It says that the Mata Hari name is from the first World War from one female spy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.248.120.105 (talk) 17:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for Image:Sear and boswell 1962 black box.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 11:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sear and boswell 1962 black box.jpg
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Adolf Hitler invented Black Box?
I heard somewhere that Hitler told Marshal Erhard Milch that all planes should have voice recorders installed? Is it true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cesarz (talk • contribs) 00:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Merger of Quick access recorder
The topic of Quick access recorder seems to be a variety of Flight data recorder and the topic seems to warrant sufficiently brief treatment to be included here. Thoughts?

Bongo matic  11:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree. QAR is not designed to survive a crash (although it may in some cases) and is really meant as a management tool used to analyze and control operational costs.  I believe its data cannot be legally used to determine the cause of an accident in most jurisdictions.

Bigdumbdinosaur (talk) 23:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree. In addition to not being nearly as crash-proof, the QAR also records a lot more pieces of information than the standard flight data recorder. It helps to record what the aircraft has been doing when there is no accident/crash.

ref: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_zaRE8yFEmkC&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=%22quick+access+recorder%22+british+airways+747&source=web&ots=S7Q-vpv93k&sig=qWbFeuvDZp0kZkQ8kdkDNPDAM3k&hl=en&ei=-caVSd3NBJKJ-gbJkMTvCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA144,M1 (google books extract of Flight 427, page 144, by Gerry Byrne).

AlsO: http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/1995/A95_29.pdf And: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Flight-recorder And: http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1996/2/1996_2_26.shtml

--204.4.131.140 (talk) 19:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Can any editor who knows about the Quick access recorder expand the article about it, and provide links? Perhaps a merger is inappropriate, but the existing article is rather skimpy, and lacking in inline citations. --DThomsen8 (talk) 12:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I also disagree - the quick access recorder is different than the flight data recorder, and as such should not be merged. --Jesant13 (talk) 20:19, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Whilst I agree with others that a QAR is NOT the same as an FDR, there ought to be a cross reference linkage. In particular, it is worth noting that in many investigations a surviving QAR has provided invaluable evidence that was not available from the conventional FDR/CVR black boxes. The ATSB has noted the supplemental value of a QAR many times in its investigative reports. Pargy (talk) 00:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

How are FDRs located?
Could anyone add some info on how FDRs are located after a crash? Do they transmit radio signals? 90.149.121.58 (talk) 20:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Dose it takes some legal permit to read FDRs?
Is there a law against reading FDRs? if so, who can read FDR? 118.169.99.183 (talk) 01:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * In the UK if the FDR/CVR had been involved in an accident it would probably be illegal for any non-authorised person, as it would almost certainly constitute theft, i.e., taking away an object from a crash site that was not the legal property of that person, and it would also constitute Tampering with Evidence, and Obstructing the Course of Justice. The AAIB is an arm of the UK government and has certain rights and obligations under Crown Law, so these are Criminal offences.


 * If the FDR/CVR had not been involved in an accident then otherwise, no. I suspect that the law is similar in other parts of the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 16:44, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

One flight recorder should be designed to detach and float in water
So many plane crashes are in the water. It should be standard for one recorder to detach and float in water. Not only would it be easy to find, but the beacon signal would also mark the crash location. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.131.71.170 (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

what kind of recorder?
I had to do WAY too much digging to find out if the recorder medium is magnetic tape, computer chips, dimples in a wire, or a little animal chiseling on a rock tablet like the Flinstones. 173.141.0.13 (talk) 22:28, 8 July 2013 (UTC)