Talk:Flint, Michigan/Archive 3

Continuation of objection
The post below, "inaccurate objection" does not hold water. The argument relies on faulty logic, provides no citations for claims made, and does not adequately situate itself within the context of the article on Flint, Michigan.

1. The post claims "plenty of Wikipedia websites have historical photos of locations that have since changed." First, information is readily available for these photos that the site is no longer standing, but this information is not included in the caption on this photo of Farrah's foods. Second, "historic photos" usually denote a place of particular import: ie. a monument, cemetery, or other site of unique and irreplicable significance.

2. The post claims that the photo was placed "near the paragraph which explains Flint's history, how the closure of GM factories affected the surrounding areas." Even very prosperous cities (in the vicinity of Flint, for example, Flushing, Grand Blanc, or Fenton) have vacant and abandoned buildings. The photo, therefore, not only indicates a phenomenon that is not unique to Flint, but that is not unique to depressed communities in general around the nation. It is irrelevent because it does not provide the reader with additional insight into the content of the article.

3. The post claims that, "in fact, it does greatly enhance the reader's understanding of the economic hardships Flint has gone through." There is no support provided for this claim whatsoever. No argument is made as to how the photo enhances any "reader's understanding" nor has any reader (in my perusal of this history) claimed to have had their understanding enhanced. (It will be interesting to see if a new account is suddenly created tomorrow or the day after to extoll the merits of this photo from an objective "outside" perspective). Finally, no connection is established between the photo and Flint's "economic hardships."

4. Lastly, the response to my earlier post does not attempt to address the fact that the photo is editorial in nature, and that the intent of a reference work is not editorialism.

TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER and POSTER: If you're insistant on having a picture of urban decay in Flint in this article, I suggest you get in your car, or on a bus, or take a walk up to Oak Park on the North Side, or the remnants of the Fisher Body Plants on the South or West Side, take a picture, develop the film, scan it, and attach it. I will be inclined to provide myself a counterpoint along the lines of the Cultural Center, Mott, or U of M, but I would not argue for the removal of a more relevant and accurate photo. Alternately, you could more fairly post *this* photo in an article on "urban blight in Flint, Michigan," where it might be more appropriate, or in a different forum altogether, more suited to editorialism.

As a final note, I know that I am on solid editorial footing here. I work at Facts on File, Inc., a reference publishing company as a freelance editor. We have established conventions what is and is not appropriate and applicable to any article, and they adhere the standard within the publishing community. If necessary, I am more than happy to supply a professional opinion on this matter if it will help this issue achieve resolution.

In the meantime, I am more than happy to continue editing out this photo each day for the reasons I've outlined. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blueskiesfalling (talk • contribs) 02:26, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

invalid objection
Dude. I'm the poster. It's a picture of flint, in an article about flint. Furthermore, the picture fits in with the text how Flint went through "white flight" and financial troubles. It's relevant.

Your point #2 is wrong. Many cities do NOT have abandoned, burned out buildings in the great numbers that flint does. One or two perhaps, but not as many as flint. This photo is representative of that.

What I would like to see is some photos of Flint in a nice area. However, I have yet to find those online. Post them, in addition, if you have them. I don't.

Nobody cares where you work. You also have too much time on your hands. Continue to re-edit the page, and I'll write a script that monitors the page and reverts back the changes. Too bad they didn't teach you how to program in your $40k/year job. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flintoid2005 (talk • contribs) 07:59, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Please stop the reverting for a moment, leave the photo off and sort this out on the talk page. Wikipedia works by consensus.
 * I think that a photo of blight is relevant as historical and demonstrating something typical of Flint, but the caption should note that the building has been demolished, if indeed it has. However, unless we have Greg Cumberford's explicit permission, we can't use his picture, we'd need another shot of Flint blight - anyone have a good camera? If we do have a photo of blight, a photo of the Flint Institute of Arts (an excellent facility for a city the size of Flint) or something similar might be appropriate for balance.
 * Note that if this particular image is deleted, it can still be accessed at Cumberford's website. However, since that site only has 2 pictures, I don't think it's good enough to link from Wikipedia. --DDerby- (talk) 16:27, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

=
"Please stop the reverting for a moment, leave the photo off and sort this out on the talk page. Wikipedia works by.."

Ok. I removed the photo, but personally think it is relevant to the "white flight" and troubles flint went through. What about changing the caption below the photo somewhat, for example "an abandoned store on 3rd ave -- flint has improved since this photo was taken" or something like that?

I do not want to give readers the impression that Flint is entirely delapitated, however, I also do not want the reader to get the impression that Flint is an average middle class town (which it is not -- middle class towns do not have nearly the abundance of ghetto areas that Flint has).

Any thoughts on changing the caption below the photo?

By the way, I emailed Cumberford and he has given me permission to use the photo on wikipedia. Furthermore, his website has 30+ photos, not two photos, and should be linked from wikipeia

Flintoid2005 16:49, 10 November 2005 (UTC)flintoid2005

==


 * Blue Skies Falling here. I think you misunderstood my original objection.  I'm not concerned that readers would form an negative (or positive) opinion of Flint that differs from my own... so it isn't necessary to add a comment that Flint has improved.  I'm more concerned that an encyclopedia article should convey information so that readers can form their own opinion, and I just think that there are better ways in which to do this than with that one photo of the abandoned 3rd Avenue store.
 * I think the best solution would involve photos of an abandoned GM facility, such as the site of Buick City, and an image of the cultural center. In addition to being historically significant, the images would convey a sense of how huge the city's problems, and what solutions have been attempted.
 * However, I won't object to the photo of Farrahs going back up if its demolition is noted, and if we can put up a picture from the Cultural Center in the near future.
 * I still haven't heard from the FIA yet. I have some friends who work at Flint Youth Theatre... they might be willing to supply me with some photos.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling

Objection
I object to you editing the discussion section, in addition to removing the photograph posted.


 * I did not edit the discussion section. The moderator (DDerby) did, and left a note below with suggestions on how to resolve this dispute.  I find the suggestions reasonable, and have emailed the FIA to see if they will consider supplying an image.
 * Incidentally, I don't make 40K, nor do I see how that observation is relevant to anything. May we continue this discussion on the talk page so that we won't continue cluttering the discussion page? ~ BlueSkiesFalling

Request for assistance from a citizen of Flint!
Hello - the article on Michael Moore is in need of some assistance from anyone living in or near Flint Michigan, specifically the Seventh Judicial Circuit Court which is located at: 900 S. Saginaw St. Flint, MI 48502 - If you live in the area and would be willing to visit the court and review (and hopefully photocopy and scan) a few documents for us that would be most helpful. For details contact me or visit the Lawsuits section of the Michael Moore Discussion page. Michael A. 06:39, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Kearsley and Carman Ainsworth
I have noticed that there is some controversy of Kearsley and Carman-Ainsworth schools being included on the list of Flint schools. I have searched for district maps, and have yet to find any definitive boundaries ... Does anyone have source information on if these districts have zones within the city limits? --Jon Cates 22:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Kearsley is in Kearsley, and Carman-Ainsworth is the amalgation of the two Flint Township highschools (Carmen and Ainsworth). Neither of them come into the city, but their districts border it. -Chris5369 :12 PM, EST 12/09/05

Does anyone have direct outline maps of the district boundaries? I do know that some districts cross areas ... I believe Atherton is one of those who has land in the City of Flint, and where residents of the city are actually residents of the non-Flint school district. And if I am not mistaken there is no such thing as Kearsley, Michigan ... Kearsley is in Flint, Burton, and Genesee Townships if I am not mistaken. Jon Cates 22:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Suburban districts do not encroach upon Flint City. The Kearsley district includes parts of Genesee Township and Burton.
 * Connor Coyne

I graduated from Carman back in the day when it was just Carman and Ainsworth(less) was our bitter rival. Carman is NOT in Flint. It is indeed in Flint township.

high schools in Flint
Per these links, , Carmain-Ainsworth and Kearsley high schools are not in Flint proper. I don't think Beecher is, either; could someone confirm that and remove it or reply here that it is in the actual city? --DDerby- (talk) 20:46, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * At those pages ... did you see any specific demarkation of boundaries? The majority of zip codes (Kearsley) they use are City of Flint codes ... 48506 which is East City of Flint. ___ as for Carman, they clearly state their residents are in the City of Flint. Jon Cates 22:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Flint's zip codes extend far outside of the city. Hopefully Blue Skies Falling will get some good solid map information for us. --DDerby- (talk) 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I found a map through the Genesee Intermediate District below. Notes follow at bottom.  The url is http://www.geneseeisd.org/schools/const_map.htm.  Thanks!  ~ Blue Skies Falling


 * The Flint School District is the only public school district within Flint City Limits.
 * Beecher is an unincorporated community (CDF?) with its own school district. Adjacent school districts are drawn mainly (though not exclusively) along township lines: Kearsley school district for Genesee Township, Bendle, Atherton, and Bentley districts for Burton, the Carman-Ainsworth district for Flint Township, and the Westwood Heights district for Mount Morris Township.
 * I have official documentation of this in Michigan, and will provide concrete citations when I am able to visit in the next few weeks.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling.

Is there a way to clarify this? Pursuant to the School District, and maps I have seen, the district lines of Carman-Ainsworth clearly encroaches on the City of Flint. While their schools are not in the city limits, if any citizens of the City of Flint pay property taxes to the school district, then they should be listed as being in the City of Flint. School districts often cross geo-political lines (Grand Blanc Schools are clearly in the City and Township of Grand Blanc, and also in the City of Burton). Jon Cates 03:42, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The following map (source Genesee Intermediate School District) clearly illustrates the boundaries of all public school districts based in Genesee country, and that suburban districts are not present in the City of Flint.
 * Recent edits have suggested that multiple districts are "in" Flint. This is not correct.  Flint Township (see separate Wikipedia article) is not synonimous with Flint City.  The Flint Public Schools are the sole established public district *within* city limits.
 * In the case of Genesee County, there are cases of districts crossing political lines, as mentioned with Grand Blanc City and Township, as well as cases where districts have expanded irregularity, and so have a large degree of political variance: examples would be the three Burton districts (Bendle, Bentley, and Atherton) or Swartz Creek and Flushing districts. However, Flint is not one of these exceptions.
 * Additionally, Powers Catholic is in Mount Morris Township, not Flint, and is operated by the Diocese of Lansing.
 * http://www.geneseeisd.org/schools/const_map.htm
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling


 * Powers has a Flint address. Monut Morris Township is not in Flint.


 * Postal jurisdiction does not correspond to municipal district; especially in cases of Township. In the present case, for example, Genesee Valley, etc., and apple orchards on Coldwater road will have a Flint address.  This is not correspondent to the political entity of the City of Flint.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling

The map that you reference does not have geo-political boundaries marked on it and can not be utilized. As the City of Flint is not as shown as that map (it does not include any portion near Bishop International Airport, which is contiguous with the City of Flint and in the City of Flint ... As with Powers, I feel that the proper notation should be "there are also a number of private schools within the City of Flint" as this would include the Valley School, and others...


 * The map is exactly continuous with geopolitical boundaries with the sole exception of Kearsley Reservoir (on the northeast side) and Bishop Airport (on the southwest). These, however, are not residential areas, and the boundaries of Bishop Airport and Reservoir conform exactly to the city limits.  Also, as mentioned, Powers is not in city limits, and I really think that the burden of rigorous proof should be to definitively demonstrate a school's grouping in a district.
 * That being said, I have no objection to the citation recommended above, as it does not specify the status of districts that we have not verified.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling
 * Here's a better map showing the boundaries of Beecher/Westwood Heights, et al. from the Mt. Morris Township website
 * http://www.mtmorristwp.org/index.php?id=16&type=1
 * Just to put it to rest, you can see Powers is just outside the city limits (in the Beecher district). I'm changing the wording so it doesn't imply Powers is actually in the city. Maybe it shouldn't be mentioned at all? Crv1 07:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Beecher is in Flint but is not part of the Flint Schools District. Bewecher school straddles the line of Flint/Mount Morris cities but is in Flint. I went there, I should know. Westwood Heights is no relation to Beecher or Mount Morris, it is its own district. Powers is not a Beecher district school, it is is it's own thing, and it is a private school.


 * Some of this in incorrect.
 * 1) It is incorrect that Beecher is in Flint. Beecher is a Census Designated Place (eg. a recognized community without political incorporation) located within the political entity of Mount Morris Township: http://www.census.gov/geo/www/cob/pl_metadata.html#cdp, http://www.census.gov/geo/www/GARM/Ch9GARM.pdf).
 * 2) Mount Morris Township borders on, but is not part of Flint. Carpenter Road marks the northern city limits of Flint (http://pics2.city-data.com/city/maps2/cm178.gif, http://www.cityofflint.com/clerk/images/ward-precinct.gif).  Carpenter Road marks the southern limits of Mount Morris Township (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ReferenceMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-rm_config=|b=84|l=en|t=420|zf=0.0|ms=ref_legal_05pep|dw=1.9557697048764706E7|dh=1.4455689123E7|dt=gov.census.aff.domain.map.LSRMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-1159354.4733499996|cy=7122022.5|zl=10|pz=10|bo=1499:1455:1473:1485:1453:1503|bl=1500:1456:1474:1486:1454:1504|ft=1495:1501:1505:1449:1463:1469:1481|fl=1496:1502:1506:1450:1464:1470:1482|g=01000US&-redoLog=false&-_lang=en&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=86000US48504).
 * 3) It is correct that the Beecher school district is directly across boundary lines of the Flint School district and that it is not related to Westwood Heights or Mount Morris Consolidated Schools: http://www.geneseeisd.org/images/lea_map.gif. The article, however, does not confuse this issue.
 * 4) The article already states that Powers is private (actually, it should probably say that it is parochial). Powers is located in the Beecher school district, just as St. John Vianny or the Valley school are private/parochial schools located in the Flint School District.  For a private school, location does not imply that students are drawn from that area, or that the school is a member institution, but public school districts are drawn along geo/political lines and do not except private schools.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling


 * Blue Skies Falling is mostly correct. Carpenter Road is the boundary line for most of Flint. You'll notice though that there is a tiny cutout north of Carpenter between Clio and Dupont -- that cutout seems to correspond to the location of the Powers school. However, regardless of the actual physical location of the school, since it is a private school, it can accept students from any municipality--it is not bound in any way by public school districts. older ≠ wiser 13:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Bkonrad; you're right about the extension of city limits. They do not, however, correspond to Powers, but to Northwestern Edison High school, which is directly adjacent to Powers.  I should have mentioned that.  Actually, the summary for the official Powers website is "Grades 9-12, located in Mt. Morris Twp."  Also, their address is "G-2040 W. Carpenter Road" which indicates Genesee County unincorporated.
 * ~ Blue Skies Falling

Infobox Photo of Flint
Can someone get a better photo of downtown preferably taken either at night or in daylight? The current photo isn't very flattering. --Criticalthinker 04:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * See continued discussion #11.

Automotive history removal
Can the long, poorly edited information on the history of the auto industry be segregated out of the History section? Possibly a short summary put into the history section and then a whole new page for "Auto Industry of Flint". Any objections?

clintp


 * I agree with clintp. While the information is specific and relevant to Flint's auto industry (and thereby worthy of its own article) it overwhelms the rest of the article, and would not be of use to someone looking for a broad overview of the city.
 * BlueSkiesFalling 08:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Moved to Flint, Michigan Auto Industry page, the Flint history page has been edited.
 * clintp

Photography, general
I agree with Criticalthinker's comment that the infobox photo was not well lit. We don't need three pictures of downtown, do we? I took both the original infobox photo and the one I've used to replace it. The photo added last week shows the Flint river as it was in the 1970s or 80s. I don't know an exact date, but it's clearly between the flood reclamation project and the building of Auto World. I changed the caption, because it implied that the riverfront looks like that today (it's been re-landscaped as part of the U of M campus). It would be interesting to have more photos of the neighborhoods and prominent institutions. The Sylvester Broome Center, Woodcroft, Civic Park Historic Area, site of the Sit Down Strike, etc.

~ Blue Skies Falling

agreed on the rearrange, looks better. however, the river pic is from the 60's, during the flood control project. it is looking east from approximately where church street would cross the river if it went that far, the bridge is beach street. the river then curves around to go in front of the ima auditorium, (all the way to the right) which was there long before autoworld. moving to the left, the next building in the forefront appears to be about where beach street is now, which was rerouted to make room for the hyatt. then you see the northbank center, with a view up saginaw north of the river. the tall white building (gone now) is about where mega coney island is, and mostly blocks the view of the durant hotel behind it. Scottr76 18:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm indifferent to the use of the new skyline picture. On the one hand, I don't think it's as good a photo, but it does show more of the skyline, and probably is a better skyline choice for that reason.  At some point it might be nice to have a panorama shot (perhaps from the Saginaw St. bridge) that will take in the river, the U of M, Genesee Towers, and the Saginaw St. skyline).
 * The photo of Fifth Ave. and Saginaw was very similar to the skyline photo, was in low resolution, and doesn't really complement the article. I removed it for this reason.
 * BlueSkiesFalling 02:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not liking the new infobox photo. While the other one wasn't up to snuf, either, this doesn't do a good job in showing the cities skyline, which is kind of the point of infobox photos.  Someone find/take a good skyline photo to show off the city's skyline in the infobox. --Criticalthinker 05:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm putting back up the photo I posted some months ago. It has good lighting and profile of the skyline.  The one downside is that the Mott Foundation Building and Genesee Towers is out.  I don't mind if my photo is replaced with a better representation, but so far there hasn't been one.
 * BlueSkiesFalling 16:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

External Link Spam
I looked through the links after seeing the spam tag. I am going to go ahead and remove the MTA link, as it doesn't enhance a readers understanding of Flint. It is also advertising a service. Should any of the links other than the MTA link be considered spam? There doesn't seem to be any that require you to pay to read them, and none of the others are really selling anything. Bryan Duggan 00:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

On schools
As of current, the school districts in Flint are rather confusing. I live there, so I know. Kearsley has is partially in Flint, Burton and Flint Twp. It is best to leave the schools section out, unless if people can clear it up to the public. Depottey 23:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

08/2007 revision
I have revised the History and Redevelopment sections.

HISTORY:

In the History section there was no discussion of the racial diversification of Flint and its historical and political significance. I have tried to fit this into the chronology by inserting a paragraph following the discussion of Roger and Me since this brings Flint up to the last decade. The paragraph itself describes developments from the turn of the century through the recall of Mayor Stanley. Citatations will be available from Rhoda Sanders book Bronze Pillars, when I can get my hands on a copy again.

I also tired to reorder paragraphs so that the chronology was more fluid and logical, but I think some more work is probably needed here.

REDEVELOPMENT:

I'm glad that (for once) there's something to write about here, but the section was 1) going into too many details that would not be of interest to someone seeking general information on Flint, 2) starting to sound too much like a "Flint is awesome" argument. I do think Flint is awesome: I just don't think it's the place of an encyclopedia article to say so. I pared these paragraphs down and reordered them. I do think that it probably needs some more work, though.

BlueSkiesFalling 15:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Notables from Genesee County and the importance of "hometown"
I am not sure exactly what Wikipedia's exact stance on this is, but it seems necessary to include figures such as Michael Moore on any objective article on Flint. This is valid on several grounds: First, regardless of whether or not Moore was born in Flint {which seems a somewhat arbitrary means of inclusion or exclusion (we would have to exclude Thomas Jefferson from a history of Washington D.C., and Benjamin Franklin from a history of Philadelphia)}, Moore did reside in Flint for a number of years in the 1970s. Second, and perhaps more importantly, Moore's career and work has been inspired by Flint and has impacted Flint. I could at least offer up as evidence the huge profile given to him at Sloan Museum, and his interaction with local politicaians such as Busch and Kildee. Whether this impact/inspiration is positive or negative is beside the point; an encyclopedia is supposed to present all relevant information without bias.

Moore is only the most obvious example, and I've watched people add and subtract comments on him from this page based on their own political opinions. The same arguments ought to apply to less contentious figures, such as Edmund Love (who is not now included, but should be) or de Toqueville (who *briefly* visited the area in the early 1800s). To be fair, the article ought to include any *notable* figures who have either resided in Flint itself or whose work/lives were impacted by or impacted Flint itself. Based on this, Moore is a necessary inclusion.

BlueSkiesFalling (talk) 00:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree. First of all, he never lived in the city of Flint. He was born and raised in Davison, his profile clearly states that with 2 reliable sources. Second of all this isn't the Genesee County article, its the City of Flint article. Yes he is from Genesee County but NOT the City of Flint. Moore needs a geography lesson anyway. In Bowling for Columbine he said Beecher was part of Flint and its not, its a census designated place that's half in Mt. Morris Township and half in Genesee Township. I removed all references to him from THIS article.TomCat4680 (talk) 14:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * TomCat, I restored the references you removed.
 * First, this article has been stable and consistent with regard to Moore references for over a year, and so a dramatic change should be broached on the Discussion page before taking out discussion in the article.
 * Second, nobody is disputing that he was born and raised in Davison, but what is your source that he never lived in Flint? As I understood it he lived in Flint while he was attending Mott Community College in the 1970s... Even if I'm mistaken, though, not living in Flint is not enough to remove him from the article, because his work, which has been commercially and culturally significant (whether or not you like it) is closely identified with Flint, as seen in citations such as FoxNews, NBC, or, for example, Rude Awakening, Maryann Kellers work on the restructuring of GM during the 1980s.  Should we leave Benjamin Franklin out of a history of Philadelphia because he's originally from Boston?
 * Third, your point about Beecher is misconstrued I think. In a nationally distributed work, one would refer to Beecher as Flint in much the same way that, for example, one might talk about Northwestern University as being a college "in" Chicago or Ford as being "from" Detroit.  NU is in Evanston, and Ford is in Dearborn; it's meant to identify proximity, not municipal boundaries.  But based on the comments you're making, I think you're letting your personal feelings for Moore guide your choice to remove him from this article.  Moore belongs in this article not because his arguments are right or wrong, but because his work has been impactful on the city of Flint, it is closely identified with the city, and residents have responded to his work in a variety of ways.  This is consistent with Wikipedia's definition of a "notable" reference.
 * BlueSkiesFalling (talk) 21:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have nothing against Moore, in fact your assumptions are contrary to the truth. I agree with most of his political positions and I have met him in person. And if you would have checked my profile before making these false accusations you would have seen I'm as liberal a Democrat there is. I've never voted Republican for anything in the 11 years I've been an eligible voter. Anyways, being the good inclusionist I am, I'm going to clarifiy that he was born in Davison but lived in Flint in the 1970's. (I went to Mott Community College as well, and I'm a big Detroit Tigers fan like him, so me and him have alot in common).TomCat4680 (talk) 13:48, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well observed TomCat. This discussion flares up every so often here, often with clear political motives, but I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions as to your own intentions.
 * I do still think the inclusion (that he was born in Davison) is unnecessary. His mention here is important because of his films; we really don't need to talk at all about his *personal* relationship to the city.  He could have been borned in Boise, but would still be worth including.  That said, I don't think your qualifications detract from the article, so I won't make any additional changes here.
 * BlueSkiesFalling (talk) 18:39, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:City seal.GIF
Image:City seal.GIF is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

City Administrator
The article states that Flint has a "strong mayor" form of municipal governance, but from what I can tell, its a weak mayor system if it has a city administrator. How long has the office of the city administrator been with Flint? Was it a result of the takeover? If not, when did the city choose to adopt this form of governance? --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I do know that the Flint Journal has referred to it as a "strong mayor" governance, and I believe their citation was an amendment made to the city charter in either the 1970s or 1980s; I don't know whether it's strong mayor in practice or not. Hope this helps a little. BlueSkiesFalling (talk) 21:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The office has been there since before the takeover. When Stanley was recalled in 02, City Administrator Darnell Earley took over the mayorship. BlueSkiesFalling (talk) 22:12, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Too much information?
As a strong believe that on Wiki pages, the more info, the better, I must admit that this page is a little too full. I think it would be best to create new pages for sections such as HISTORY, and condense the info on this page, providing a link to a new HISTORY OF FLINT page, so that people can read up more if they choose, and those looking for general info not be bombarded with so much. Any objections/volunteers to condense? I have taken the liberty to create a new page for notable residents, a section that DEFINITELY is too large. - hsxeric (talk) 19:09, July 29, 2009 —Preceding undated comment added 23:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Possibly. The mention of Moore's minor documentary in the lead is a little poor. This is the city the Buick Riviera came from. Nevard (talk) 14:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Education
The education section is all wrong, Flint is dealing with decling enrollement so they have closed some of schools. They also fired the superintendent if I am not mistaken.Bb3968 (talk) 19:58, 24 September 2009 (UTC)