Talk:Flip-flops/Archive 1

Change page title to Thongs
Thongs sounds a whole lot formal as a name than flip-flops, I don't think any other article of clothing is named onomatopoeiacly. Sure Americans love to rule the world and what they say goes but I honestly think that Australians own more thongs per capita than anyone and therefore should have naming rights. Thongs are seen as the unisex national footware in Australia(no shit, you aren't aussie without a pair of thongs) and such devotion should mean that the page title contains Thongs instead. If we are going to name clothing onomatopoeiacly then swimming fins(they are fins not flippers) should also be included as flip-flops as they 'flip-flop' on the groung when you walk in them, therefore add all types of swimming fins or change the title. Plus the 'thong' underwear is actually called a g-string so you shouldn't confuse the two.

I think it should be called Jandal as the article says they first orginated in Japan as Japanese Sandals, ie Jandals 202.154.151.124 (talk) 06:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's fine as it is. Most of the world calls it flip-flops. I actually haven't even heard of the other names used to describe this thing. Hannahcronin (talk) 09:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, the USA are the only nation who use that term. And, as it's western origin was in New Zealand, It should be called Jandals, or at the very least Thongs. They're more popular in Austrailia and New Zealand than in the USA. And, you can hardly ague 'most of the world' as a one country that happens to have a larger population. And, Flip-flops are not what they are known as world wide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xanthic-Ztk (talk • contribs) 04:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As a matter of information, they're also called Flip Flops in the UK Mandolamus (talk) 15:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

' but I honestly think that Australians own more thongs per capita than anyone '

Incorrect, Indians own more chappals per capita and we have a lot more capita than OZ.

' ''I think it's fine as it is. Most of the world calls it flip-flops. I actually haven't even heard of the other names used to describe this thing.'' '

No, most of the world calls it 'chappal' - unless you consider most of the world to be defined by per capita income rather than a simple measure of population. Let's leave well enough alone without all this splitting of hairs. DarkseidX (talk) 12:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Anything, flip flops hurts my ears. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 07:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to see the article name changed to "Thongs" too. Flip-flops is a horrible name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.20.50.1 (talk) 07:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Can't we find a better picture?
The featured picture on this page is, to me, definitely below wikipedia standards. I know that people continue to wear disgustingly filthy flipflops, but do we really need to see them in the article? I'm sure that someone has a picture of clean flipflops. 75.69.110.227 18:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Ttly agree Hannahcronin (talk) 09:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii and the US
The hawaiian section says that "flip flops are called slippers or slippahs..."

When in fact, sandals are called slippahs and flip-flops, specifically, are called "jap-slaps"

Might be considered derogatory but thats what they call 'em. Its pidgin. 72.174.2.252 20:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: and the US as a whole seems a bit off as well. In the us they are sandals or flipflops. I havent heard of go-aheads at all, and have only heard them called thongs in a european/british context, and zoris in an asian context.
 * I'm English. In the UK, Thongs are a type of saucy underwear! These sandals are called Flip Flops over here. Mandolamus (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

If I am wrong, switch it back.. but in the US these are flipflops or sandals. 72.174.2.252 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the content. "Zorries" is universally understood in southern California. "Thongs" is a little old-fashioned (since the advent of thong underwear) but still very common. "Go-aheads" is a reasonably common term in Hawaii. Kafziel Talk 17:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

"Zorries" is not universally understood in Southern California. I have lived in Hollywood, CA for eleven years, and am originally from the Bay Area, and have never heard the term before. I just asked four of my co-workers, three of whom were raised in Southern California and none of them knew what "zorries" were. Neither did the guy from West Virginia. None of us had ever heard the term "go-ahead" either. We range in age from 21 to mid-50s and each decade in between. So, the terms may be "universally" understood amongst your circle, but they are not universally understood. While the youngest among us, the West Virginian, had never heard the term "thongs" used the older amongst us were raised with it.Drayke 18:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm from Hawaii and lived a solid decade in SoCal, and 2 decades on the East Coast, so here goes: they are FLIP-FLOPS in the entire US. One also hears "zori", "slippers" and "rubber slippers" ("rubbah slippah") a bit in HI, but NOWHERE on the mainland (unless you stumble upon some HI transplants). And even in HI, "zori" usually covers for its own plural (a la "sushi", "sashimi" etc) -- I have heard "zories" with the "s" on it a FEW times, but none too often.

"Thong" is also around here and there. As said above, far less common now that the underwear/bikini meaning has taken over, but it's not completely unheard of. And was actually quite common up till the 70s or 80s. Moreso on the mainland than HI, which is already overloaded with terms.

They are also called "sandals" here and there. To me, sandals are sturdier things with a strap around the back, but I suspect there is regional variation. Perhaps used even LESS in HI -- again the "overload" factor. Funny, tho, as locals certainly realize they are far closer to sandals than to slippers; and yet "slipper" is used a bit whereas "sandal" is not. Such is life.

"Go-aheads" I have never -- NEVER -- heard anywhere. If ANYONE in HI is using this term, it is surely a recent transplant from some foreign land where it is used! Or GUAM, perhaps, I dunno.

Ditto "clam diggers" which in the places I've been usually refers to WADING BOOTS.

BTW, in Japan they are known as "biichi sandoru" (beach sandals). FWIW. No one there would ever CONSIDER using the term zori!!

Peace out. 66.105.218.15 (talk) 06:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Clean up
I tried to clean this up a little, but its still quite messy. There also seems to be a hint of bias and emotive language.

--AussieBob 08:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Messy
This article repeats itself a lot....it describes the makeup of a flip-flop several times. could someone clean it up please? tgpuckett 17:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture
The picture does not look like a typical pair. I'd suspect that a more typical pair has a foam / rubber bottom and cheap plastic thong.

To whom does the pair of flip-flops in the picture belong to? They look rather worn-out and run down. Is this pair of flip-flops still alive?

They're mine! :) I've worn them for a couple years now and yes, they're still alive. I'd like to get a new pair, but I can't find another like it. Someday I'll take a better picture of them and my plastic pairs. Dreamyshade 06:55, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I guess that you wouldn't want to to throw out that pair. It wouldn't do these sandals justice after they've starred in a photo in a Wikipedia article!!!

Hiya guys and gals, I'm a flip-flop. You may have seen me around on summer days. We flip-flops are born to serve your feet .poor us I know We endure hot asphalt, broken glass, go through rain and mud. You pound us into the ground. After living a humble life or servitude, when our straps snap and our soles grow old, worn and exhausted after a year or so, we give up the ghost and you throw us into the trash without a second thought, to be compressed and destroyed and obliberated along with all the other garbage and useless worn-out objects. Next time you wear one of my brothers and sisters, could you at least give us a little respect and say thank you before you toss us into the trash to be forgotten as junk forever?

Thank you, Yours truly, flip-flop

Flip-flops made have the unique property of conforming to the foot structure of the wearer.

- I'm not exactly sure what is meant by the statement? Does it refer to the flip-flop being worn down by the feet (thus leaving "scars" in the shape of the foot and toes)? Because being gradually worn down is a trait of nearly all footwear, not just flip-flops.

-Quantum bird

A photo with president Bush was uploaded, but I think it is not suitable for this article, so removed it.--Mochi 12:01, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

A slightly different kind
This piece only mentions the sort with a V-shaped strap and a piece that goes between two of the toes. Another kind, referred to by the same name probably about as often, have the strap going straight across and no toe-post. The strap might also be wider and have a velcro fastening. -- Smjg 12:05, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

=ing sandal?Winstonwolfe 02:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Interlang link
Hebrew link seems not correct. It is about a IC/circuit. I wonder whether the article has something about sandals.--Mochi 16:29, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Merger with Jandal
Two points;

-Firstly I think the merger was rather poorly done. Basically the text of the Jandal article was picked up and added to the Flip Flop article with little alteration, beyond replacing the word jandal with Flip Flop a few times.

-Secondly there is the question of whether the merger should have been done at all, and if so, should the title have remained Flip Flop. The problem is the same item is known by different names in different places: Flip Flops are known as Jandals in the South Pacific, their place of origin, and Thongs or Flip Flops in other western countries. Some South East Asian names are listed but there are far more (incidentally, it would be interesting to track the spread of Jandals in SE Asia - Jandal making for NZ was subcontracted to Taiwan in the late 50s, and later Thailand and the Phillipines, and it would be nice to trace a progression from that to SE Asian adoption, but it may be that they were secondarily introduced from America, Australia or the Pacific Islands).

Perhaps someone could enlighten me on policy here, but there seem to me difficulties with any choice: Using the American name for anything is clearly unacceptable to non-Americans. Using the fist name - as taxonimists do - can be confusing where it is not widely used, as is the case with Jandal. In addition the first name may be debatable, (maybe this page should be merged with Zori?). Choosing the most common usage can be confusing when the item is more important to a smaller number of people, (if you think that is ridiculous with Jandal, consider more Indians (and Chinese et C.) speak English than Anglo-Americans and they have local English terms you may not recognise for many items. What if more than one group of people find the item important? Should the Morris Oxford article be merged with the Hindustan Ambassador article? They are the same car.

For Kiwis, there is a similar issue with wellington boot and gumboot.

Possibly a joint title could be used Flip-Flop / Thong / Jandal ... with redirects from individual names. But personally I'd leave the separate pages with cross references to each other. What do you think? Either way the article needs a rewrite and tidy up.

The article should be merged together. They are talking about the same thing, so they belong on the same page. The article name is fine too, we (Australians) don't call them flip flops, but recognise the term. Wikipedia tends to default to Americanised names anyway (despite the efforts to keep it neutral).--59.167.103.124 02:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Jandal name, IP problems?
Can someone elaborate on the legal reasons why they are not referred to as "Jandals". This is mentioned twice in the article but not explained. --59.167.103.124 02:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Jandal is a registered trademark. Winstonwolfe 05:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Fashion Faux-Pas?
Since when are wearing jeans with flip-flops a fashion faux-pas? Believe me, none of the thousands of high school and college students to whom this is a wardrobe staple would believe that. I've never heard that it was a faux-pas, and there is no source for it, so I vote for removing it. If no one objects, I'll do it in a week. --Ecurran 00:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally I wouldn't be taking the example of "thousands" of High School students for my fashion advice. There are people who believe that there's nothing wrong with having your g-string(thong) show over the top of their pants; doesn't mean you should do it. Then again I'm also of the opinion that there's no such thing as "dress sneakers" Brother William 22nd April 2006
 * I think there's a major difference between letting your underwear hang out and wearing flipflops. But one of the issues I have with it is the lack of source. Also, it depends on what kind of flipflops are being worn to what kind of event. Flipflops at a wedding, sure, that's bad. Unless you have leather ones; then, depending on the formality of the wedding, they could be perfectly fine. --Ecurran 00:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd probably say it's a faux-pas. Having said that, I wear thongs and jeans together --59.167.103.124 02:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * For a faux-pas reference, there was the hullabaloo about the Women's Lacrosse Team wearing slippers to the White House. They have been compared to the debut of jeans as everyday wear, rather than extremely casual or work wear.

non english names
I truly ask what the point is in listing the non enlgish names for flip flops. Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a translator. Why not list every language's name for them? Why list any? Since this is the English language section of wikipedia, it is relevant to only list the different terms from various English speaking countries. Unless someone has a good reason, I will delete the translations. If someone is really curious about what they are called in other languages, they can go to the other language links found on the left hand side of the article entitled "in other languages". Masterhatch 23:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no objection. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Masterhatch 23:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The non-English names seem to have made a comeback. In the spirit of this discussion, I'll clean them out again. AJD 01:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And they are back. Plus it says that in Estonia they are knows an frons. Being a native Estonian speaker, I've never heard a word like that. In fact, the letter f is rarely used in Estonian language and if, then only in imported words. A few words that we use are sandaalid and plätud, with the last one being rather informal. 72.71.5.157 02:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Some of the words seem to just be the translated word for sandals/slippers in general --130.85.239.84 03:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

NZ/Hawai'i Connection?
Being from Hawai'i, I can safely say that few there believe the current incarnation of the slipper was developed in New Zealand of all places. There it is believed that Japanese sugarcane plantation workers brought zori with them to the islands.Fisty 22:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting - with the large Japanese population and a relative degree of industrialisation, an adoption of Japanses sandals in rubber or plastic would be perfectly credible. (Plausibly U.S. servicemen based in NZ during WWII or the airlink between the two in the 1940s could plausibly have been a route for transporting the idea to NZ from Hawaii, leading to widespread south pacific/south east asian adoption and spread). Evidence for first date? Were they manufactured locally? Winstonwolfe 02:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Injuries due to flip flops
I read in the paper that flip flops are the cause of many injuries because they don't provide ankle support. Also the exposed nature of them, leaves the bare foot open to contact dirty surfaces which increases the risk of infection. Lengis 05:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

"to handle the jandal" common idiom in NZ ?
I am from New Zealand and I have never heard this idiom. I don't think it is common. Can someone give a source? Dailyenglish 05:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC) Dailyenglish

I agree I haven't heard it used outside teenagers, South Aucklanders and radio DJs, but for the record...   Winstonwolfe 05:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I heard it a lot in lower North Island, didn't hear it (that I can remember) in Canterbury. There's also an extension "...can't handle the jandal, or the roman sandal" used for real no-hopers. RB30DE 09:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's definintly commonly known round Wellington, although maybe not commonly used. There is even a Handle the Jandel Music Video comp which is pretty big in Wellington.Guavafruit 01:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I have heard "you can't handle the jandle". But that's it. It's not that common. I've only heard people use it as a joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xanthic-Ztk (talk • contribs) 09:27, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Brittish English?
Is there a UK-only name for these? we seem to have it for Australian, New Zealander, Hawaiian, and American english, but not British english. If not, perhaps a special denoter saying that there is no other name for them in the UK? --200.44.6.213 16:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Not being able to "handle the jandal" is an idiom with the same meaning as "if can't do the time, don't do the crime" and relates to jandals being used to discipline children in a similar way to a cane. It was stated as a warning when a peer was about to do something which may lead to sever disciplinary action e.g. "I wouldn't do that unless you can handle the jandal"

John Kerry picture
Is the John Kerry picture really necessary? I agree that there should be a reference in the popular culture section, but I don't really think that a simple picture of Kerry is necessary to illustrate it. None of the other references in the pop culture section have corresponding pictures. Hindudot1788 04:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd actually like to add a picture of Mitt Romney to the article, but I suppose that would be deleted as political vandalism by Republicans,. . . WTF? (talk) 18:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

"Double pluggers" accepted name in Australian English?
I live in Australia and I have never heard this term. I would like to take it out of the Nomenclature section as it is not what flip-flops are "known as" here even if it is an occasionally used term. Any objections?58.111.217.225 02:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Never heard it either

I don't know what is meant by the plug, about time to retire this one. 75.69.160.252 (talk) 23:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Pluggers are named because of the plugs that hold the strap thing onto the foam bit. Look on the bottom of your thongs. They either have one per side, or two, for 'double pluggers'. I'm from Perth, maybe it's a Perth thing. 04:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.21.239 (talk)

Jandals on beaches
Here is an interesting Jandal oddity about more left-foot ones washing up on beaches: Te Ara

One theory is that it is to do with the way people launch their boats right foot first (if their right-footed that is) Jamie Mackay (talk) 05:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I am a Queenslander and every Australian that I have ever mentioned double pluggers to has known what I was talking about. If the term is used on both sides of the country, surely it deseverves agknowledgement? --123.51.8.33 (talk) 12:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

C class
I have downgraded this article from a B class on the quality scale to a C class. It is messy, and contains mostly uncited WP:OR. I'll be going through this article over the following days and would invite any editors to help me fix things up. Matty (talk) 10:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

History??
Has anyone even looked up the history of flip-flops? They date back to like ancient egyptian times soo..the history portion should really be double checked and fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mctc2119 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There really wasn't a history section before, unless someone deleted it. But there is now, and there is quite a bit of information there. WTF? (talk) 18:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Regional names
The section tells me what flip-flops are called in many different places, but it doesn't tell me where they're called flip-flops. I'm quite confused.HiLo48 (talk) 10:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * This section was redone and moved to an earlier section entitled 'etymology', which should answer that question. WTF? (talk) 18:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Are "Thongs" misunderstood?
"Thongs" is the only name used for this footwear in Australia (for at least the past 50 years), and is presumably known at least a little bit elsewhere, but every now and again a new editor removes the word from the lead without explanation. I am now wondering if it's because such editors are unaware of the Australian use of this name, and think that it's a wrong and/or deliberately provocative use of the the name of the skimpy undergarment, and hence some form of vandalism?

I have just reverted yet another instance of this.

Would it be worth clarifying the facts about the Australian usage very early in the article to prevent this kind of good faith, mistaken removal? HiLo48 (talk) 22:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The word thong was already in the first sentence so it was actually a correct removal (although an edit summary would have helped). I wonder if we need all the other alternative names though. Many of the ones outside of Flp flops, Thongs and Jandels appear to be nick-names. AIR corn (talk) 00:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, it was my mistake, but I had no idea why the word had been deleted. An Edit summary would have helped a lot. HiLo48 (talk) 04:33, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

The picture
Just had a "discussion" with an IP editor about the picture. He had changed it to what we have now. I reverted, commenting that he had neither discussed the change nor used an Edit summary. I asked him to seek consensus. He changed it back, again without discussion, but with a rather assertive Edit summary. Since he won't initiate discussion, I will. To start it off, his Edit summary reads "This picture is better becuase from 2006 onward it has been this picture. People have changed it in the past and it has always come back to this picture. It is informative, and stock, and has less distracting details that take away from the object". (Not my typo)

Ignoring the "We've always done it this way" part of that (never a great argument, IMHO), I find the current picture, showing only a top view, quite uninformative. The one that has now been replaced manages to show flip-flops from more than one angle, giving a lot more information. As for distraction, is patterned concrete really any more distracting than grass? HiLo48 (talk) 22:51, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither are that good for the opening image. Why not use the one of the black Havanas as the lead image. There is enough room at the moment to put both the others into the article further down and use them to demonstrate how they are worn. AIR corn (talk) 23:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion. I would have no problem with that. HiLo48 (talk) 00:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. AIR corn (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I would argue that it always ends up back at that photo because certain IP editors always keep putting it back there. Either way, though, the image of the shoes on their own on top looks good.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:46, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I reverted back to the page where both images were included. I have no problem with changing the order, but feel both can fit in the article as it now stands. AIR corn (talk) 01:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandals
The intro paragraph contradicts itself.

The list of names begins "Flip-flops, thongs, sandals". And then at the end, "Unlike sandals, flip-flops do not secure the ankle."

I disagree with both statements:
 * The first implies that "flip-flops" and "sandals" are synonyms. In fact, various shapes of footwear are called sandals, perhaps the one common characteristic being that they don't fully enclose the foot except for a hole where the leg attaches.
 * The second implies that sandals necessarily secure the ankle. While I personally tend to call flip-flops flip-flops (or flipflops) rather than sandals, I'm not inclined to agree that the terms are mutually exclusive.  Similarly Birkenstocks (which that page describes as a kind of sandal) and the like.

But it does appear that there are geographical differences in usage. How best can we rewrite it to make sense? — Smjg (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * For starters I suggest removing sandals from the list of names. I am going to be bold and remove some of the others too. Maybe not mention sandals at all in the second sentence? AIR corn (talk) 23:43, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The sandal comparison was cited to a blog site, so I removed that too. AIR corn (talk) 23:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * A good move I think. There is a mention up above of the name pluggers being used in Western Australia, but no source was given. If someone finds a source it can go back in. HiLo48 (talk) 00:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The bolded names should really just be the common names so the source should reflect that. There might be a cause to mention alternative names in the body though. AIR corn (talk) 00:45, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:48, 1 May 2016 (UTC)