Talk:Floral morphology

Quite obscure sentence
Hi. About this one: "The flowers are arranged in cymose determinate inflorescences at the extremity of a scape, sometimes compacted and similar to umbels—for which they are called "pseudoumbels"—rarely reduced to solitary flowers." Does it mean: "The flowers are arranged in cymose that determinate inflorescences at the extremity of a scape. These inflorescences are sometimes compacted and similar to umbels, and in that case are called "pseudoumbels". They are rarely reduced to solitary flowers." or does it mean something else?

And this one: The involucral bracts, those enclosing the flower buds, may be present or absent. "those" is ambiguous. Can mean : "The involucral bracts, which enclose the flower buds, may be present or absent." Meaning there are no other bracts than those enclosing the flower buds. or "The involucral bracts which enclose the flower buds, may be present or absent." Meaning that there may be other bracts apart from the ones that may be present around the flower buds.

Thank you for making that clear and understandable. 91.164.158.11 (talk) 10:57, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello! Thank you for pointing out the lack of clarity in the paragraph. As mentioned in the tag above, this article is a direct translation from an es-wiki article, so the sentence structure may seem odd at times. Of course, this is no excuse since it is now published on en-wiki, so thanks for pointing this out. I have now fixed the paragraph to make it more readable and understandable. Please let me know if it's still not clear enough. mjf9089 (talk) 03:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Tips: 1) all sentences should treat of one and only one idea/concept/etc, and they should be kept short. 2) Choose "being understandable" before "looking erudite". Example : "the bracts of the involucre" is better understandable / clearer / more easily pictured / more memorable than "the involucral bracts". "erudite" is related to "to instruct"; if you choose complicated constructions / words / etc over simple ones, you may look erudite but that's just a fake.

Ray florets = ?
Checking a translation of Darwin's The effects of  cross and self-fertilisation in the vegetable kingdom; p. 372 I find "ray-florets". Can't find that anywhere in here: (Glossary of botanical terms, Flower, Umbel, "what else?").

The Glossary of botanical terms gives at "floret": "A small flower, usually referring to the individual true flowers clustered within an inflorescence, particularly those of the Poaceae grasses and the pseudanthia of family Asteraceae." So, nothing on "ray floret/s". Suspecting (quite rightly) that it'll be easier to find with google;

Here: Control of Floret Symmetry by RAY3, SvDIV1B, and SvRAD in the Capitulum of Senecio vulgaris, I find: "Asteraceae species are characterized by having a capitulum, which is a compressed inflorescence consisting of two types of flowers: ray and disc florets. In the capitulum, disc florets are positioned in the center, surrounded by ray florets at the margin (Fig. 1, A–D). A disc floret has five evenly sized petals with radial symmetry (actinomorphic; Fig. 1G), while a ray floret has bilateral symmetry (zygomorphic; Fig. 1F) with three fused and elongated ventral petals and two reduced dorsal petals (Trow, 1912)."

Ok, so thanks to that i look up "capitulum" in the glossary, and that opens on the page Pseudanthium. "ray florets" is mentioned in there, but no explanation and no link. There is a link on "ray flower" - and on "disc flower", both of which open the page Asteraceae. Where I read: "The "petals" or "sunrays" in a sunflower head are actually individual strap-shaped[10] flowers called ray flowers or ray florets, and the "sun disk" is made of smaller circular shaped individual flowers called disc flowers or disk florets." Ok, that's almost good enough, apart from that the "strap-shaped" requires an explanation - all the more so because the ref that goes with it is not accessible. So, almost good enough but the path from "what's ray florets" to that is not good enough by far.

After all these circumvolutions, i get the idea of searching the Glossary of botanical terms for "ray florets".
 * At "discoid" (no link), one mention of " ray florets" (no link): " Also used to describe the flower head of Asteraceae where there are no ray florets but only disc florets ". Which does not seem right to me, esp. as in Asteraceae we (rightly) have the above-mentioned " "petals" or "sunrays" in a sunflower head are actually individual strap-shaped[10] flowers called ray flowers or ray florets "; and in Pseudanthium we have: "(in the) sunflower family (Asteraceae), (whose) flowers are differentiated into ray flowers and disk flowers, unique to this family". So I don't know what you mean on that subject in the glossary but it's clearly contrary to what you say elsewhere; and if it's not contrary it's so obscure that it's beyond redemption and needs a total remake.
 * At "radiate", one mention of "ray floret" (no link) : " (of daisies, of a capitulum) With ray floret surrounding disc florets. " I don't see why the 'floret' of 'ray floret' is not plural, doesn't make sense; but i can't add the needed 's' because of some fangled editory format that's falsely called improvement. Also, the 'ray floret' is (dimly) underlined, (poorly) suggesting an indication of sorts on the double word; it says: "see entry on this page at floret ". 'Floret', as seen above, does not give any indication whatsoever on 'ray florets', so that dim note is inadequate.
 * In a photo we have the one and only useful link, in : "The of Zinnia elegans is typical of many Asteraceae in that it includes two types of s, ray florets and disk florets." 1) The photo is not adjacent to what it's supposed to illustrate, so no good here. 2) the link on 'ray florets' redirects to the above-mentioned Asteraceae (good); but if I type (which is the first thing i did when arriving on wiki) "ray floret" in the search box, there is no indication whatsoever of that redirection. This is wrong (and, as can be guessed here, utterly annoying). 3 That link should be on all the other 'ray florets'.
 * At "ray" (no link), there is one mention of " ray-florets/flowers, for example Asteraceae ". 1) Link missing on "ray-florets". 2) Need to harmonize the writing: choose between 'ray-florets' and 'ray florets' and stick to one or the other, but stop using both because a page search gives either one or the other but not both.

+: In the "See also" section or "Floral morphology" there should be either links to all pages that describe the different parts of the various flowers, or/and a link to the category page that gathers them all. But there is not way i would have had the idea of looking at a page called "Pseudanthium" for 'ray florets', so the 'See also' or/and the category page should definitely include "Capitulum".

Thank you. 91.164.158.11 (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Forgot: so, if i understand correctly, these 'ray florets' are what we commonly call "petals" on daisies, sunflowers and such. If that's true, it should be mentioned right beside the 'ray florets' thing. And if it is mentioned somewhere, why is it so hard to find that I did not see it despite the rather thorough search I just wasted one hour on? 91.164.158.11 (talk) 13:28, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello! I can't seem to find the term you're asking about. Could you point me to the specific the paragraph/sentence? Thanks! mjf9089 (talk) 03:31, 21 June 2023 (UTC)